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tobio
Feb 5, 2009, 4:43 AM
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Hi, I've been climbing for about a month - only in the gym, haven't been outside yet - and noticed something: most climbers I see only bother to put one hand on the finishing hold, instead of both hands. And not just other beginning climbers, actually it seems like more experienced climbers (which from my perspective means climbing V3's and higher) do it more than anyone. When I first climbed I learned from the person I went with that the proper finish is with both hands on the finishing hold, and in the climbing videos I've watched (king lines, dosage vol. V) the climbers always end with two hands, if they're not climbing over the boulder. This seems like kind of a big deal to me, seeing as it is usually an entire move at least that you have to make to get the second hand on the finish. What's the deal with the one-handed finish? Is it a common thing I should just get used to seeing, either in the gym or out on a rock? Or am I in the wrong here?
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Lazlo
Feb 5, 2009, 4:50 AM
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tobio wrote: Hi, I've been climbing for about a month - only in the gym, haven't been outside yet - and noticed something: most climbers I see only bother to put one hand on the finishing hold, instead of both hands. And not just other beginning climbers, actually it seems like more experienced climbers (which from my perspective means climbing V3's and higher) do it more than anyone. When I first climbed I learned from the person I went with that the proper finish is with both hands on the finishing hold, and in the climbing videos I've watched (king lines, dosage vol. V) the climbers always end with two hands, if they're not climbing over the boulder. This seems like kind of a big deal to me, seeing as it is usually an entire move at least that you have to make to get the second hand on the finish. What's the deal with the one-handed finish? Is it a common thing I should just get used to seeing, either in the gym or out on a rock? Or am I in the wrong here?
I prefer to do a pullup on the finish jug. I'm that cool.
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ShibbyShane
Feb 5, 2009, 4:52 AM
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Lazlo wrote: I prefer to do a pullup on the finish jug. I'm that cool.
/thread
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uni_jim
Feb 5, 2009, 4:53 AM
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I prefer to do a one arm pullup on the finish jug. I'm that cool.
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fxgranite
Feb 5, 2009, 5:01 AM
Post #5 of 54
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#1: It's the gym. Who the hell cares.
#2: It's another person's style. Who the hell cares.
#3: Finishing holds in the gym are typically jugs. More experienced climbers realize that they can latch onto it with just a finger or two, making a full match kind of superfluous after the first hand is solidly on it.
#4: It's the gym. WHO THE HELL CARES??
On a side note, since when is the word "gym" not recognized as a word by the spell checker?
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Carnage
Feb 5, 2009, 5:06 AM
Post #6 of 54
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I prefer to do a no arm pullup on the finish jug. I'm that cool.
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etmorchicn
Feb 5, 2009, 5:08 AM
Post #7 of 54
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i think the idea is to be able to use the finishing jug, be it with one hand or two. obviously you can't launch up to the last hold, slap it at the peak, fall back down to the ground and call it a day.
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kriso9tails
Feb 5, 2009, 5:30 AM
Post #9 of 54
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tobio wrote: Or am I in the wrong here?
Yes.
The reason people finish with two hands on the last hold is to show control to onlookers (e.g. judges at comps). Outside of comps there's no particular need so long as you feel you have control.
Outside of the gym... problems without topouts suck.
(This post was edited by kriso9tails on Feb 5, 2009, 6:58 AM)
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patto
Feb 5, 2009, 6:43 AM
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tobio wrote: When I first climbed I learned from the person I went with that the proper finish is with both hands on the finishing hold,
The proper way to finish is to come home safely and have fun. Anything else including beer is bonus.
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vertical_planar
Feb 5, 2009, 6:58 AM
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I prefer to do an eight arms pullup on the finish jug. I'm Kali.
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suilenroc
Feb 5, 2009, 7:14 AM
Post #12 of 54
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I prefer to do a cock pullup on the finish jug. I'm that cool.
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spoon
Feb 5, 2009, 8:31 AM
Post #13 of 54
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In reply to: #1: It's the gym. Who the hell cares.
The logical extreme of this argument is: It's climbing, who the hell cares?
You don't have to match every finish hold to get the most out of the problems you climb, but typically you should be comfortable enough to feel as if you could match. If you aren't in complete control of the finishing hold you're cheating yourself of one of the moves on that problem. Obviously it's not the end of the world, but if your gym's setters are any good they work hard to make every move fun, and the finish is one of those moves. Why not do it?
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caliclimbergrl
Feb 5, 2009, 9:07 AM
Post #14 of 54
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spoon wrote: In reply to: #1: It's the gym. Who the hell cares. The logical extreme of this argument is: It's climbing, who the hell cares? You don't have to match every finish hold to get the most out of the problems you climb, but typically you should be comfortable enough to feel as if you could match. If you aren't in complete control of the finishing hold you're cheating yourself of one of the moves on that problem. Obviously it's not the end of the world, but if your gym's setters are any good they work hard to make every move fun, and the finish is one of those moves. Why not do it?
Very good point. And it's not just climbing -- it's bouldering. And indoor bouldering at that!! This is probably the type/style of climbing with the most "rules" If you're doing a big wall or an alpine climb somewhere, you can do whatever you want. Pull on gear, jug up ropes, whatever. The point is to get up and down without dying, so anything goes. The rules tighten up as you get into free climbing, trad climbing, sport climbing, bouldering, gym climbing, and finally bouldering and gym bouldering. A lot of bouldering (especially in the gym) is very contrived. I mean, what is bouldering if not the most difficult way to move the smallest distance? So we make start holds, sit starts, we put tape on holds and make rules for what holds you can use, what walls you can use (sometimes stemming on the other wall is on, sometimes it's not), we make rules for when you can use features and when you can't. If route setters intend for both hands to be on the top hold, then you're not getting the most out of the problems if you skip that last step.
It's all good and fine to say, "It's just gym climbing! Who cares?" But we all roll our eyes at people who ignore tape/routes/problems/ and just climb up using any holds. It's not really that different. Yeah, do whatever makes you happy. Of course, if you're so in control that it just means casually moving your hand to touch the hold, fine, skip it. But to get the best out of a route/problem, it's often best to do it the way the setters intended. But take my opinion for what it's worth considering I almost never boulder.
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epoch
Moderator
Feb 5, 2009, 12:27 PM
Post #15 of 54
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This will get better feedback in here.
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edge
Feb 5, 2009, 1:57 PM
Post #16 of 54
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From a competition standpoint, you only need to show control of the finishing hold, be it one handed or two. This is a bit subjective, depending on the judge, but is rarely challenged.
From the non-competition standpoint, everyone can climb as they feel appropriate. If you finish a route to your own personal satisfaction, then who cares how many hands you put on the finishing hold?
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rhythm164
Feb 5, 2009, 2:02 PM
Post #17 of 54
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it ain't over til you teabag the finishing hold
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shockabuku
Feb 5, 2009, 2:37 PM
Post #18 of 54
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edge wrote: From a competition standpoint, you only need to show control of the finishing hold, be it one handed or two. This is a bit subjective, depending on the judge, but is rarely challenged. From the non-competition standpoint, everyone can climb as they feel appropriate. If you finish a route to your own personal satisfaction, then who cares how many hands you put on the finishing hold?
Current USA Climbing rules require demonstration of control by matching on the finish hold.
9.1.5 The climber must control and match hands on the finish hold(s) of a boulder problem to
receive points for completion of that problem. The climber must establish contact with the route
judge so that the judge may verify control of the finish hold(s).
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kappydane
Feb 5, 2009, 3:14 PM
Post #19 of 54
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I suggest you simply call out anyone you see finishing with one hand and see how that works out for you :)
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mturner
Feb 5, 2009, 3:22 PM
Post #20 of 54
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caliclimbergrl wrote: spoon wrote: In reply to: #1: It's the gym. Who the hell cares. The logical extreme of this argument is: It's climbing, who the hell cares? You don't have to match every finish hold to get the most out of the problems you climb, but typically you should be comfortable enough to feel as if you could match. If you aren't in complete control of the finishing hold you're cheating yourself of one of the moves on that problem. Obviously it's not the end of the world, but if your gym's setters are any good they work hard to make every move fun, and the finish is one of those moves. Why not do it? Very good point. And it's not just climbing -- it's bouldering. And indoor bouldering at that!! This is probably the type/style of climbing with the most "rules" If you're doing a big wall or an alpine climb somewhere, you can do whatever you want. Pull on gear, jug up ropes, whatever. The point is to get up and down without dying, so anything goes. The rules tighten up as you get into free climbing, trad climbing, sport climbing, bouldering, gym climbing, and finally bouldering and gym bouldering. A lot of bouldering (especially in the gym) is very contrived. I mean, what is bouldering if not the most difficult way to move the smallest distance? So we make start holds, sit starts, we put tape on holds and make rules for what holds you can use, what walls you can use (sometimes stemming on the other wall is on, sometimes it's not), we make rules for when you can use features and when you can't. If route setters intend for both hands to be on the top hold, then you're not getting the most out of the problems if you skip that last step. It's all good and fine to say, "It's just gym climbing! Who cares?" But we all roll our eyes at people who ignore tape/routes/problems/ and just climb up using any holds. It's not really that different. Yeah, do whatever makes you happy. Of course, if you're so in control that it just means casually moving your hand to touch the hold, fine, skip it. But to get the best out of a route/problem, it's often best to do it the way the setters intended. But take my opinion for what it's worth considering I almost never boulder.
This is true but as stated it only really matters in competitions. I disagree that you're shorting yourself out of the full potential of the climb. If you climb hard matching on a top ledge jug even with no feet is not going to make or break the climb or the experience. In fact at our gym, the top is so juggy setters are encouraged not to make the last move going to the top hard because it usually just means a dyno to a jug which can be fun but gets old.
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edge
Feb 5, 2009, 4:54 PM
Post #21 of 54
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shockabuku wrote: edge wrote: From a competition standpoint, you only need to show control of the finishing hold, be it one handed or two. This is a bit subjective, depending on the judge, but is rarely challenged. From the non-competition standpoint, everyone can climb as they feel appropriate. If you finish a route to your own personal satisfaction, then who cares how many hands you put on the finishing hold? Current USA Climbing rules require demonstration of control by matching on the finish hold. 9.1.5 The climber must control and match hands on the finish hold(s) of a boulder problem to receive points for completion of that problem. The climber must establish contact with the route judge so that the judge may verify control of the finish hold(s).
Like I said, this is subjective, and depends on the head judge.
When I was head judge at Adult Nationals a few years back, I did not require matched hands. Realistically, when Vadim or Hans sticks a finish hold, do you want to be the pill who calls foul because they did not match? Control is evident to the mind of an educated judge. This is what I was taught from my mentor, an international level Head Juror. The key is to explain the rules as you will interpret them to all of the competitors.
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Gmburns2000
Feb 5, 2009, 5:00 PM
Post #22 of 54
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shockabuku wrote: edge wrote: From a competition standpoint, you only need to show control of the finishing hold, be it one handed or two. This is a bit subjective, depending on the judge, but is rarely challenged. From the non-competition standpoint, everyone can climb as they feel appropriate. If you finish a route to your own personal satisfaction, then who cares how many hands you put on the finishing hold? Current USA Climbing rules require demonstration of control by matching on the finish hold. 9.1.5 The climber must control and match hands on the finish hold(s) of a boulder problem to receive points for completion of that problem. The climber must establish contact with the route judge so that the judge may verify control of the finish hold(s).
Oh, the ironing.
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kennoyce
Feb 5, 2009, 5:10 PM
Post #23 of 54
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In reply to: I prefer to do a no arm pullup on the finish jug. I'm that cool.
You like angry must be training with a kegalsizer
(see angry's kegal exercises thread if you don't understand)
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shadowsandwich
Feb 5, 2009, 5:21 PM
Post #24 of 54
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I think if you don't do a one finger pull-up on the finish hold while chugging a beer, it doesn't count. It doesn't matter if you're in a gym or outside. It's just a theory, it's probably wrong.
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kriso9tails
Feb 5, 2009, 5:27 PM
Post #25 of 54
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kappydane wrote: I suggest you simply call out anyone you see finishing with one hand and see how that works out for you :)
I was going to give you five stars for this because it made me laugh a little, but then I realized that there was no period at the end of your sentence. Technically, you didn't finish it properly, so it doesn't count.
If you rewrite it with a period I can probably give you three or four stars, but I'm afraid I just can't give you full points for the flash.
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