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go_dyno
Feb 11, 2009, 7:09 AM
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Does anyone use Twistlock Biners (i.e BD's Rocklock Twistlock) for ice?
Do they ice up and freeze?
Unlock EZ with thick gloves?
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granite_grrl
Feb 11, 2009, 12:36 PM
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I dislike them in the first place, but I found them even harder to operate with gloves on. It could just be my lack of practice with them though.
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sungam
Feb 11, 2009, 6:32 PM
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My buddy Cory had a bunch when we were climbing in CO. Little fuckers froze solid repeatedly. Now, so did the normal lockers, but not nearly as often, and it was usually easier to unfreeze the normal lockers. Add gloves and the whole "you almost had me unlocked but I'm gunna go ahead and slip through your fingers and lock again" thing got pretty freaking annoying.
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tomtom
Feb 11, 2009, 6:39 PM
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I use one for my belay biner but use screwlocks otherwise.
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go_dyno
Feb 12, 2009, 5:06 AM
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I usually only like TWIST LOCKS for my dog leashes, but I keep an adjustable daisy girth hitched thru my belay loop and clipped to my full strength haul loop on my rear. I prefer to have a dedicated unique biner for this and the screw lock I had been using would screw itself partially shut leaving me looking like I am having an ass scratching fit trying to unscrew it (always in the wrong direction first) while I should be 'QUICKLY" clipping myself to the anchor......sooooo, I was thinking that a TWIST LOCK which would most likely spend most of its time on my backside and not too much time clipped to anchors would work on my adjustable daisy. This is the reasoning here. Thanks for the replies!
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adamtd
Mar 7, 2009, 3:37 AM
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I'm with TomTom, I use a autolock for my belay device and screwlocks for everything else. I like the autolocker for my belay/rappel device because, although I check it everytime I clip/un-clip, it's one less thing I have to do manually. It's rarely dragged along the ice, or exposed to liquid water, so it doesn't freeze up. I prefer the locking mechanism on the Omega Pacific Jake Jr., and if you use it regularly, it becomes second nature.
I'm also a firefighter and use the same autolocker on my personal bail-out rope, and have no problem manipulating the lock with fire gloves on which hinder dexterity far more than any gloves I wear climbing. Practice, practice, practice...
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go_dyno
Mar 7, 2009, 5:50 AM
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Adam great info Thanks!
As thanks for the info, I'll share my first ride along with a Fire Company. Horn blows we all load up and I think I'm strapping my seat belt on but I'm actually strapping the air tank waist belt on and on the first big turn me with the air tank waist belt and no shoulder straps on both go a flying and as I'm flopping around and the tank is flopping around (I erroneously thought it was oxygen and that we were all going to blow up) not one Fire Fighter offered to help me up, they all just laughed and watched waiting to see how long it took me to figure out what hit me! As you can imagine the story was told to me daily for the 2 weeks I lived in the firehouse
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rangerrob
Mar 24, 2009, 2:25 AM
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I don't usually use locking biners during the winter. You can get really screwed up if a locker freezes up and you can't thaw it out to unclip from it. If I really need to back up a biner I'll oppose two regular gates. I've always hated twistlocks even in the best situations.
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Lazlo
Mar 24, 2009, 2:54 AM
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rangerrob wrote: I don't usually use locking biners during the winter. You can get really screwed up if a locker freezes up and you can't thaw it out to unclip from it. If I really need to back up a biner I'll oppose two regular gates. I've always hated twistlocks even in the best situations.
I'm curious how often alpinists feel this way. How many climbers do you know that also do not use lockers?
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julio412
Mar 24, 2009, 9:57 AM
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Rockexotica makes a double wire Wire gate 'biner.
It's alittle fussy to use, but can't freeze up.
I showed it to some guides in Scotland this past
January and they immediately saw it's advantages.
Rockexotica is owned by Petzl ,so I'm guessing that makes them reputable.
Again it's not a locker but close and can't freeze up.
Frozen lockers can be frightening! All of them!
M
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reno
Mar 24, 2009, 1:09 PM
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Lazlo wrote: rangerrob wrote: I don't usually use locking biners during the winter. You can get really screwed up if a locker freezes up and you can't thaw it out to unclip from it. If I really need to back up a biner I'll oppose two regular gates. I've always hated twistlocks even in the best situations. I'm curious how often alpinists feel this way. How many climbers do you know that also do not use lockers?
I very seldom use lockers in the ice/alpine environment.
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jmeizis
Mar 24, 2009, 2:12 PM
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While I have used twistlocks on ice and they have not frozen up they are more difficult to manipulate with gloves (so is everything else). For ice and alpine use I think they can be quite a pain to use (so is everything else). Then again I'm only usually ever using them at belays for masterpoints, clipping in directly, and other such things so it's not like I'm pumped out trying to make some difficult clip with the locker.
Rock climbing I think they're great, faster, similarly secure to screwlocks. The one problem I've noticed is that due to my use of twistlocks I have to double check that everythings locked more often. If you climb with me you'll notice me randomly squeezing things.
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shoo
Mar 24, 2009, 2:21 PM
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julio412 wrote: Rockexotica makes a double wire Wire gate 'biner. It's alittle fussy to use, but can't freeze up. I showed it to some guides in Scotland this past January and they immediately saw it's advantages. Rockexotica is owned by Petzl ,so I'm guessing that makes them reputable. Again it's not a locker but close and can't freeze up. Frozen lockers can be frightening! All of them! M
You mean the most amazingly useless carabiner ever invented? Good luck with that, especially with gloves. This is an even more horrendously useless device than BD's ATC-Sport.
Also, just because Petzl owns them (not sure if that's true) doesn't make them quality. They're crap, and always will be crap.
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Lazlo
Mar 24, 2009, 2:23 PM
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shoo wrote: julio412 wrote: Rockexotica makes a double wire Wire gate 'biner. It's alittle fussy to use, but can't freeze up. I showed it to some guides in Scotland this past January and they immediately saw it's advantages. Rockexotica is owned by Petzl ,so I'm guessing that makes them reputable. Again it's not a locker but close and can't freeze up. Frozen lockers can be frightening! All of them! M You mean the most amazingly useless carabiner ever invented? Good luck with that, especially with gloves. This is an even more horrendously useless device than BD's ATC-Sport. Also, just because Petzl owns them (not sure if that's true) doesn't make them quality. They're crap, and always will be crap.
Strong statements. Do you have proof to back it? I ask because I'm interested in the carabiner.
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shoo
Mar 24, 2009, 2:35 PM
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Lazlo wrote: Strong statements. Do you have proof to back it? I ask because I'm interested in the carabiner.
What do you want for proof? Can you possibly imagine trying to clip that into anything one handed? Yeah, you could probably do it with a lot of practice, but even then it would be slow and difficult going. Do you really want a carabiner on your rack that you couldn't possibly use in a moment of desperation?
This is doubly true for ice climbing. Gloves = low dexterity. Low dexterity + cold + absurdly difficult and finicky mechanism = keychain carabiner.
Please note: I have never used this carabiner. I've also never used thumb screws to alleviate a headache, but I get the feeling it's not a good idea.
Edited for stupid quotes.
(This post was edited by shoo on Mar 24, 2009, 2:36 PM)
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Lazlo
Mar 24, 2009, 2:42 PM
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sandstone
Mar 24, 2009, 4:11 PM
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I've got a couple of big DMM autolockers that stay on my harness, dedicated to belay/rappel duty. All my other lockers are screwgates.
I think I got the DMM's when autolockers first came on the market (dinosaurs still roamed the earth). I use them for rock, ice, & alpine. I don't have any problem operating them with big fat gloves on. They're also great for munter hitch belaying when you forget/drop your belay device.
My autolockers have been iced many times, but I have always been able to open them by hand. I have had a few instances where I could not open a screwgate and had a cut a sling -- but that has never happened with my autolockers.
I avoid double action autolockers like the plague, because they are just too much of a hassle to operate, especially with gloves on. What you want is a "quicklock" style action, that opens with a 90 degree twist of the sleeve, and locks automatically when you release it. The sleeve needs to be easily gripped by gloved fingers.
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acorneau
Mar 24, 2009, 6:23 PM
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julio412 wrote: Rockexotica is owned by Petzl ...
Not sure about that. Right on the front page of their website:
In reply to: Products designed and manufactured in Clearfield, Utah USA
I would guess that if they were owned by Petzl they would be making all their biners the main workshops (France/China?).
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shoo
Mar 24, 2009, 7:08 PM
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acorneau wrote: I would guess that if they were owned by Petzl they would be making all their biners the main workshops (France/China?).
Ownership does not mean management. One company can own another with virtually no operational interaction.
However, I can't possibly think of a reason that Petzl would ever want anything to do with RE unless RE had some useful intellectual property. Judging from the "quality" design behind the BiWire, I highly doubt it.
Edited to add: Although I was unable to find anything definitive, some searching of the internets suggests that Petzl did, in fact, purchase RE. It would appear that I was correct in that the acquisition was mainly for rights to intellectual property, but it's difficult to tell for sure.
(This post was edited by shoo on Mar 24, 2009, 7:14 PM)
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roy_hinkley_jr
Mar 24, 2009, 7:23 PM
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Rock Exotica has been making all the Petzl Spirit biners for a decade. Most of the other binerss too. Petzl bought Rock's company but he still runs it as a separate entity. The US office of Petzl is also in Clearfield.
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acorneau
Mar 24, 2009, 8:43 PM
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roy_hinkley_jr wrote: Rock Exotica has been making all the Petzl Spirit biners for a decade. Most of the other binerss too. Petzl bought Rock's company but he still runs it as a separate entity. The US office of Petzl is also in Clearfield.
What?!? Man, that's crazy.
Wonder why the RE products don't have CE certifications?
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