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whiskeybullets
Feb 17, 2009, 12:52 AM
Post #1 of 26
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Registered: Jun 23, 2005
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To all you 5.11 and up tradsters:
I'm not the best climber in the world, but fairly competent on rock. I'd consider myself an 11c onsite sport climber and a v3 onsite boulderer. It took me a while to reach this level, and I owe it mostly to dedicated gym climbing. However, my gym regimen has not translated to success in the trad arena. I onsite 9 routinely, but find I really get kicked around on 10b and up.
Since I have recently redpointed 12b overhung sport, I obviously have the requisite level of fitness. I therefore attribute this to a failure to train specific technique necessary for crack climbing. This, however, presents a problem, as the closest cracks are ~2hrs away and are obviously outdoors. I can't just hit the gym and lap cracks after work like I do for pockets, pinches, etc.
So all you trad gods out there, how do you train to send 11 cracks? It's a breakthrough that I really want to make. So many great trad lines to be had, and it really makes big-walling so much more enjoyable if you don't have to aid every damned pitch.
I'm open to any and all suggestions that will help me send Black Corner next time I make it out to Indian Creek and Serenity/Sons next time I'm in the Valley!
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glahhg
Feb 17, 2009, 1:54 AM
Post #2 of 26
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Registered: Nov 7, 2003
Posts: 69
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Drive the 2 hours and climb the cracks.
Also, go to indian creek a couple of times. After that, you'll be sending 5.11 cracks guaranteed.
You don't really have to do laps on cracks in order to learn how to climb them. In my experience, every time you climb a crack your skill and technique go up a bit each time, and you basically retain it. There are all kinds of little tricky things to figure out, and once you know them, and have a feel for them, you always know them.
That said, doing laps *is* good for endurance and getting your technique nice and efficient.
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irregularpanda
Feb 17, 2009, 2:24 AM
Post #3 of 26
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Registered: Mar 13, 2007
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glahhg wrote: Drive the 2 hours and climb the cracks.
that's true. but also here's my inconvenient opinion.
Why are you climbing trad?
I'm not asking because I care. I don't. I'm asking because you should have a reason for wasting time. If you have a reason, that's cool. But if you don't have a good reason for an exercise in futility, then what's keeping you from stopping?
So don't stop. Or stop if you want to, whatever. I can guarantee that at the end of the day, whether it was a 5.10b or a 5.11b, nobody gives a shit except maybe you.
So, were you wasting days on it because it was a really fucking mesmerizing line, or because of the number?
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blueeyedclimber
Feb 17, 2009, 2:25 AM
Post #4 of 26
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Registered: Nov 19, 2002
Posts: 4602
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Is your lack of technique holding you back, or gear placing ability, or is it your head? Whatever it is, needs mileage. If it's cracks that are holding you back, then you need to drive the 2 hours and get on some cracks. If it's gear placing, then you need to drive the 2 hours and place some gear. If it's your head, then you need to drive the 2 hours and get some mileage climbing above your gear.
So...get in your car and drive. That is all.
Josh
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evanwish
Feb 17, 2009, 5:53 AM
Post #5 of 26
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Registered: May 23, 2007
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the above posts are right, but i'm sure thats not what you're looking for...
what i'd say to break into leading the 5.Whatever crackfind a short crack, top rope it untill you have it down, then go for the lead, just remembering that if you toproped it no prob a few times, you can lead it. at that point its mostly in your head (asuming gear is simple)
i've worked a few routes over repetition till i can break into the route and do it just fine, but still struggle on other climbs of the same grade...
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ryanb
Feb 17, 2009, 7:33 AM
Post #6 of 26
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Registered: Nov 4, 2004
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Climb on real rock, train small edges on a hang board, boulder on granite, climb slabs.
Steep sport is power endurance intensive. I find trad tends to be lower angle; cruxes involve grabbing smaller holds and--with good foot work--more opportunities to recover...more pure power and general fitness then power endurance.
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graniteboy
Feb 18, 2009, 12:27 AM
Post #7 of 26
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Registered: Dec 1, 2001
Posts: 1092
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I would not agree that because you can redpoint 12b sport that you necessarily have the requisite level of fitness. I would say that most folks who do not shine on crack climbs are lacking 4 things, not necessarily in this order:
1) the appropriate mindset
2) appropriate experience
3) Adequate crack technique
4) appropriate musculature.
None of these can really be adequately developed by training somewhere where you are not climbing cracks. ALthough I do know guys who built some pretty effective crack machines in their backyard. That can help some.
About #4 above: Recall that when Scotty Burke finally bagged the 2nd free ascent of the nose, he said something to the tune of "I grew muscles in places I didn't even know I had places" during his training and free attempts. The muscles required, for instance, to climb 11a offwidth are not very closely related to the muscles required to pull crimpy overhanging sport routes at all.
It's a completely different white elephant sitting in the room staring at you, and until you recognize that it isn't really a pony, and until you start spending time climbing cracks, you're gonna be disappointed in your crack results. Spring is in the air in just a few weeks.
So Quit yer job, move to the mountains, and climb cracks. That's how you get good at that.
(This post was edited by graniteboy on Feb 18, 2009, 12:29 AM)
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angry
Feb 18, 2009, 12:45 AM
Post #8 of 26
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Registered: Jul 22, 2003
Posts: 8405
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Rogers Roll!!!
Sums it up pretty well.
You've got to know how to push yourself without killing yourself.
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angry
Feb 18, 2009, 1:13 AM
Post #10 of 26
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Registered: Jul 22, 2003
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It works for me
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Sin
Feb 18, 2009, 1:25 AM
Post #11 of 26
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Registered: Apr 17, 2007
Posts: 236
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blueeyedclimber wrote: Is your lack of technique holding you back, or gear placing ability, or is it your head? Whatever it is, needs mileage. If it's cracks that are holding you back, then you need to drive the 2 hours and get on some cracks. If it's gear placing, then you need to drive the 2 hours and place some gear. If it's your head, then you need to drive the 2 hours and get some mileage climbing above your gear. So...get in your car and drive. That is all.
You could have said " Drive the two hours and get your head", personally I wouldn't drive that far to get head.
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Alphaboth
Feb 18, 2009, 1:47 AM
Post #12 of 26
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Registered: Apr 2, 2008
Posts: 116
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I'm kinda in the same boat as you, trad climber, who goes and does a sport route and is like yo, this was easy and i can climb a grade harder. A home made crack is not too hard to make. Two 2x6s bolted an inch or so apart...maybe adjustable so u can make it wider? Never tried it but allways wanted to. I heard about this crack training exercise last sping and it helped a little, though i didn't keep it up for long. It consisted of doing curls and squats in sets without a break inbetween. Like doing a set of curls, then immeadiately a set of squats. I empravised by doing a set of pullups then the squats, but apparently it helps train to body to work these muscle in succession, which is what u want to do while crack climbing.
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petsfed
Feb 18, 2009, 2:37 AM
Post #13 of 26
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Registered: Sep 25, 2002
Posts: 8599
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whiskeybullets wrote: To all you 5.11 and up tradsters: I'm not the best climber in the world, but fairly competent on rock. I'd consider myself an 11c onsite sport climber and a v3 onsite boulderer. It took me a while to reach this level, and I owe it mostly to dedicated gym climbing. However, my gym regimen has not translated to success in the trad arena. I onsite 9 routinely, but find I really get kicked around on 10b and up. Since I have recently redpointed 12b overhung sport, I obviously have the requisite level of fitness. I therefore attribute this to a failure to train specific technique necessary for crack climbing. This, however, presents a problem, as the closest cracks are ~2hrs away and are obviously outdoors. I can't just hit the gym and lap cracks after work like I do for pockets, pinches, etc. So all you trad gods out there, how do you train to send 11 cracks? It's a breakthrough that I really want to make. So many great trad lines to be had, and it really makes big-walling so much more enjoyable if you don't have to aid every damned pitch. I'm open to any and all suggestions that will help me send Black Corner next time I make it out to Indian Creek and Serenity/Sons next time I'm in the Valley!
Mileage. Just MORE MILEAGE. You won't get better at jamming by working out or reading tech tips or climbing a different kind of sport route. You need to get out there, on the sharp end, and climb trad routes.
If 2 hours is an inconvenience to you, then clearly you don't want to climb trad enough to get over that. This ain't gonna come easy, and its gonna take a lot of work on your part, but them's the brakes.
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dynamo_
Feb 18, 2009, 4:47 PM
Post #14 of 26
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Registered: Apr 13, 2005
Posts: 275
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irregularpanda wrote: glahhg wrote: Drive the 2 hours and climb the cracks. that's true. but also here's my inconvenient opinion. Why are you climbing trad?
Because he wants to be as tough as you...he doesn't want to clip bolts with his draws that match his harness with his super clean rope belayed by some dude wearing a Prana beanie and manpris using a GriGri... 
(This post was edited by dynamo_ on Feb 18, 2009, 4:50 PM)
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vegastradguy
Feb 18, 2009, 5:41 PM
Post #15 of 26
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Registered: Aug 28, 2002
Posts: 5919
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having recently broken into .11 trad- i would say that the larger the skillset, the better off you are- crack or otherwise. if you're still gettin' spit on .10 trad, it sounds like your skillset just needs improvement- more mileage is probably the best recommendation.
also, many weekends spent at Paradise Forks (my closest crack mecca) and a week at the Creek definitely helped me hone skills on thin hands and fingers, both of which are invaluable on .11 trad.
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krusher4
Feb 18, 2009, 7:42 PM
Post #16 of 26
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Registered: Nov 17, 2005
Posts: 997
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train on a crack machine, carry only the gear you need and place it at decent stances, know that your gear will hold, be fearless....or at least less fearful LOL
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elcapinyoazz
Feb 18, 2009, 9:24 PM
Post #17 of 26
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Registered: Nov 8, 2003
Posts: 93
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Everyone says suck it up, make the drive, and get mileage on cracks on lead. And sure, mileage will hone your jamming, confidence, and eye for gear placements and rests. All those will mean you climb more efficiently and relaxed and can do the same route with less effort/fitness than it would take you now.
BUT...you asked specifically what to do since you can't get to your local crack area regularly. In that case, for sure build an adjustable crack machine, preferably with two side-by-side cracks (it only requires one more board and a few extra nuts). Make it as tall as you can for whatever room you have (outside preferably, use 2x8 or 2x10..because 2x8 is actually only 1.5 x 7.25)
You just can't train the muscles in the base of your thumb and the heel area of your hand that you use in jamming by climbing face routes. A crack machine will train those muscles as well as hone your technique on tough sizes.
If you can redpoint 12ish steep sport stuff, and have basic hand jamming down, you can haul yourself up anything in the perfect hands size. So concentrate on the hard sizes...set your two cracks to something around 1", 1.25", 1.5" and/or 3", 3.5".
That will be roughly off-fingers/stacks/ratchets, rings/ratchets/thin hands, thin hands, and cups and fist. Smaller and you've got perfect fingers, larger than 1.5" and your in decent hands, larger than 3.5 and you're approaching off-fist depending on your hand size.
O-dubs are a different animal altogether. Best train for them by doing a zillion situps, crawling under parked cars, cage fights with grizzly bears, and power vomiting.
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graniteboy
Feb 18, 2009, 9:56 PM
Post #18 of 26
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Registered: Dec 1, 2001
Posts: 1092
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In reply to: You just can't train the muscles in the base of your thumb and the heel area of your hand that you use in jamming by climbing face routes. A crack machine will train those muscles as well as hone your technique on tough sizes.
Actually, that's one area of strength development you CAN train without being in a crack....I used to work in a glass factory...and lifting hundred Lb sheets of glass all day by Pinching them between your thumb and fingers...you'd be surprised how much that beefs up your handjams.....
But for those who don't wanna work in a glass factory, with all it's associated death potential....you can definitely think up an analogous exercise using a nice big sheet of 3/8 Plate iron.
But really, if you wanna climb cracks hard, you hafta spend time climbing them....
(This post was edited by graniteboy on Feb 18, 2009, 9:57 PM)
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yevquest
Feb 18, 2009, 10:14 PM
Post #19 of 26
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Registered: Sep 13, 2002
Posts: 71
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In reply to: Mileage. Just MORE MILEAGE. You won't get better at jamming by working out or reading tech tips or climbing a different kind of sport route. You need to get out there, on the sharp end, and climb trad routes. If 2 hours is an inconvenience to you, then clearly you don't want to climb trad enough to get over that. This ain't gonna come easy, and its gonna take a lot of work on your part, but them's the brakes.
I disagree with this as a blanket statement. I rarely trad climb or crack climb, sometimes less than once a year, but I can still climb 11+ on gear onsite easily. Why? Because the moves are easy and I have endurance from bouldering and sport climbing, respectively.
To the original poster, are you failing on .10 trad due to physical or mental problems? Are you getting pumped and falling? This could be physical (lack of strength, lack of technique for routes that aren't overhanging jugs, lack of conditioning) or mental (overgripping or pumping out placing too much gear). If it's physical, get stronger and work on your endurance. The gym is great for this.
If it's mental then I do agree that lots of trad mileage will help, particularly climbing above and falling on gear.
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graniteboy
Feb 18, 2009, 11:12 PM
Post #21 of 26
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In reply to: I rarely trad climb or crack climb, sometimes less than once a year, but I can still climb 11+ on gear onsite easily. Why? Because the moves are easy and I have endurance from bouldering and sport climbing, respectively.
HOOOO HOOOO HOOO HAAAWW HAAAW HAAAW!!!! Hey Rex: I have some nice slimey 5.11+ offwidths that are on my list down inthe Valley....Maybe you can show up and run laps on em so I can Get a visual on how "easy" 5.11 crack is relative to all that burly sprot climbin you do....
HOOOO HOOOO HOOO HAAAWW HAAAW HAAAW!!!!
For the original poster: Yevquest wants you to pay no attention to the man behind the Curtain.....otherwise known as Peewee Squirmin....HOOOO HOOOO HOOO HAAAWW HAAAW HAAAW!!!!
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sidepull
Feb 19, 2009, 12:42 AM
Post #23 of 26
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Registered: Sep 11, 2001
Posts: 2335
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irregularpanda wrote: So don't stop. Or stop if you want to, whatever.
distilled zen-ness.
zen-ness distilled.
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lithiummetalman
Feb 19, 2009, 1:16 AM
Post #24 of 26
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Registered: Feb 28, 2004
Posts: 286
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Might sound odd, and I know it's not quite the same as climbing the real thing, but if hard pressed (time wise) to get out and climb crack, how about some crack buildering i.e. finding cracks in concrete walls, or chimney like squeezes to practice on?
If there's a will, there's a way!
However as everyone else said, there's nothing better than training for the real thing than on the real thing!
good huntings!
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angry
Feb 19, 2009, 1:21 AM
Post #25 of 26
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Registered: Jul 22, 2003
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lithiummetalman wrote: Might sound odd, and I know it's not quite the same as climbing the real thing, but if hard pressed (time wise) to get out and climb crack, how about some crack buildering i.e. finding cracks in concrete walls, or chimney like squeezes to practice on? If there's a will, there's a way! However as everyone else said, there's nothing better than training for the real thing than on the real thing! good huntings!
Two things.
First, I read your name as Lilith etc, and I pictured you as a little hippy girl. Lithium metal man, it's not heavy metal though it is quite explosive. Does that make it rock harder than heavy metal? Or just blow up easier?
And I've done extensive crack buildering. It's more an expression of the crack climbing you already know, not so much a way to train wouldn't you say?
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