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asellers98
Feb 24, 2009, 7:18 AM
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http://aesphotography.smugmug.com/...4&AlbumKey=vH8ZJ
I just went to a leader clinic and took a photo of each of the placements. Would appreciate feedback on placements if you have time? I am trying to really hone in my trad placements. I hope it helps other beginner trad climbers too!
By scrolling down on the page you will see the comment button. It will make more sense to comment on the photo, rather than on here, unless there is something to discuss in depth.
(This post was edited by asellers98 on Feb 24, 2009, 7:19 AM)
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suilenroc
Feb 24, 2009, 7:26 AM
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I'm using Google Chrome... didn't see any comment button...
Some of your cam placements could have been a lot better by choosing the next size bigger...
A lot of your nut placements looked like junk. Could be because you were placing into flat rock vs. vertical rock. not sure...
Overall, it looked like your hexes were the most consistently well placed pieces of gear.
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USnavy
Feb 24, 2009, 7:31 AM
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As said previously, some of your cam placements are too small. More often than not your cams were only about 30% camed. One of the BD #1's had a lobe that was 0% camed.
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asellers98
Feb 24, 2009, 8:26 AM
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Forgot to add the photos were from everyone's placements. So there were complete newbies placing gear.
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asellers98
Feb 24, 2009, 8:34 AM
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LOL. No just so I don't give the impression these were all mine.
I am new and have been told that I overcam. Mine are all those with Red and Blue tape.
Thanks for taking time for the feedback.
(This post was edited by asellers98 on Feb 24, 2009, 8:37 AM)
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suilenroc
Feb 24, 2009, 8:52 AM
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asellers98 wrote: LOL. No just so I don't give the impression these were all mine. I am new and have been told that I overcam. Mine are all those with Red and Blue tape. Thanks for taking time for the feedback.
Right on man... Most of the RED/BLUE cam placements looks good. there was a #6 that looked good. a number 2 that looked bad, may hold though, could have used something better. bla bla bla.
Wish i could have commented on the photos individually, like you mentioned.
Great to know you are interested. I climb with a few that don't care if placements are bad or good... Wish they would take more care.
Be safe and climb hard...rock.
EDIT: spell-a-ring
(This post was edited by suilenroc on Feb 24, 2009, 8:53 AM)
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notapplicable
Feb 24, 2009, 10:09 AM
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5 stars for slab climbing!
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kachoong
Feb 24, 2009, 2:06 PM
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Haven't looked at all the pics yet, but most of the tricam placements are just placed like a passive nut, not placed how they're designed.
edit... photos #29 and #30... too overcammed.
(This post was edited by kachoong on Feb 24, 2009, 2:07 PM)
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acorneau
Feb 24, 2009, 4:53 PM
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kachoong wrote: Haven't looked at all the pics yet, but most of the tricam placements are just placed like a passive nut, not placed how they're designed.
Actually they are designed to be placed as a passive nut.
In reply to: TRICAMS Patented camming unit that utilizes the superior strength and stability of the tripod. The innovative design allows for use in cammed and chocked positions.
http://www.camp-usa.com/...icams-Hexes-Nuts.pdf
To the OP:
Tricams placed passively cam be a be-yotch to get out if you fall on them. Pic #13 is a prime example. If you do need to set one passively, try to make sure the tip if the Tricam isn't directly on the rock, but held back by a bump or constriction on the side of it.
(This post was edited by acorneau on Feb 24, 2009, 4:58 PM)
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kachoong
Feb 24, 2009, 4:58 PM
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acorneau wrote: kachoong wrote: Haven't looked at all the pics yet, but most of the tricam placements are just placed like a passive nut, not placed how they're designed. Actually they are designed to be placed as a passive nut. In reply to: TRICAMS Patented camming unit that utilizes the superior strength and stability of the tripod. The innovative design allows for use in cammed and chocked positions.
Yeah, I realize that... I guess I should have worded it better.  I think I saw only one placed where its camming action might work, which was the point of the exercise right? To improve on placements? He could have just placed a nut instead.
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spikeddem
Feb 24, 2009, 5:56 PM
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There was a red camalot in which the tips of the lobes lined up perfectly. The caption was something about being overcammed. Many would describe that setup for a cam as being as good as one could hope for.
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justroberto
Feb 24, 2009, 8:50 PM
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1) We're not really going to be able to judge the placements from pictures. Take the critiques above (and below) with a giant grain of salt.
2) Placing cams in E-Rock granite can sometimes be a pesky endeavor (that is E-Rock, I assume, or least something in the Llano uplift, right?). This ain't no desert sandstone, and the coarse granite, prominent crystals, and irreglar cracks make placements trickier than most other places I've been. With that said, I happen to like pics 29 and 30 - I'll take slightly overcammed with equally retracted lobes any day out there - that's about as good as you can hope for. I also find that I place a lot more nuts and a lot less tricams and tcus out there.
3) Give me a shout next time you're passing thru Austron to go out. I think the eo.com gathering thing is dead in the water, but I'm still planning on heading out that entire weekend. Will critique placements for food. Or for a belay. Whatever.
Edit: Sorry, AC, I thought you were the OP. Not paying attention, clearly.
(This post was edited by justroberto on Feb 24, 2009, 9:08 PM)
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graniteboy
Feb 24, 2009, 8:53 PM
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I didn't have time to pour thru all the photos. But I offer 2 pieces of advice:
1) one of your stopper placements (looks to be size 8 stopper, with a scrap of yellow marking tape on the wire) looks a little suspect. Notice that >50% of the left side of the placement is not in contact with the rock. That means that you're trusting yer ass to a single little crystal at the top left of the nut. I would not trust that nut, but then again, I can't see the whole situation based on a single photo.
2) Your practice of the high art of stabilizing the loose block by using a hex to hold it in place, as practiced in the photo, looks sketchy at best. The hex is well below the cam, and looks like it wouldn't stop the expansion to begin with, as the expansion load would be well above the hex. Better option would be to use a hex as the main load bearing point, and if you feel you need to, place another passive piece (hex etc) in there to stabilize. Cams and loose blocks just don't mix....unless you have absolutely no other oprions....and even then...be prepared to fly. I have used placements like that on A4....but not as a damned anchor point.
(This post was edited by graniteboy on Feb 24, 2009, 8:56 PM)
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kachoong
Feb 24, 2009, 8:56 PM
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justroberto wrote: 1) We're not really going to be able to judge the placements from pictures. Take the critiques above (and below) with a giant grain of salt. 2) Placing cams in E-Rock granite can sometimes be a pesky endeavor (that is E-Rock, I assume, or least something in the Llano uplift, right?). This ain't no desert sandstone, and the coarse granite, prominent crystals, and irreglar cracks make placements trickier than most other places I've been. With that said, I happen to like pics 29 and 30 - I'll take slightly overcammed with equally retracted lobes any day out there - that's about as good as you can hope for. I also find that I place a lot more nuts and a lot less tricams and tcus out there. 3) Give me a shout next time you're passing thru Austron to go out. I think the eo.com gathering thing is dead in the water, but I'm still planning on heading out that entire weekend. Will critique placements for food. Or for a belay. Whatever.
Are they still holding the Granite Gripper? I went to one in, I think, 2007.
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majid_sabet
Feb 24, 2009, 9:00 PM
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Great photos for my educational power points
I'll be stealing them all
thanks
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justroberto
Feb 24, 2009, 9:05 PM
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Yeah, the '08 Gripper was held in November. I imagine '09 will be in the works in a couple of months...
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evanwish
Feb 26, 2009, 1:23 AM
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how about this piece of crap?
PS: NO this was NOT a serious placement.. i'm sure if it was on real rock (instead of a few rocks plastered together) this sort of placement might hold body weight.. haa but thats about it..
haha it did pass the pull test tho... [yeiks]
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mhix13
Feb 26, 2009, 4:31 AM
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thanks for posting the pics. im new to trad and learnin myself placements and these were cool to look at to compare with my own placements. some of the placements seemed close to the lip of the crack. i can't see depth with a pic so that might not be the case. like i said im new too but i feel like i read in leubbens anchors book not to make placements too close to the lip if you can help it.
any comments on that last statement?
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asellers98
Feb 26, 2009, 5:39 AM
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Some were close to the lip, most were not. Usually there was a finger's depth on the ones that look close.
Congrats on taking the leap to trad leading. It is a very rewarding step.
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evanwish
Feb 27, 2009, 1:16 AM
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mhix13 wrote: some of the placements seemed close to the lip of the crack. i can't see depth with a pic so that might not be the case. like i said im new too but i feel like i read in leubbens anchors book not to make placements too close to the lip if you can help it. any comments on that last statement?
try to place it a few inches in if you can.. if you can't get it in deep enough consider climbing up higher looking for a new placement..
i once popped a piece on a 60' fall. I ran out of gear to protect that size so fiddled around working on trying to get something to stick, finally getting a cam with two engaged cams and two sitting uselessly outside the flaring crack. it was pretty much a confidence/if-i'm-lucky-it-might-maybe-hold piece....
well i fell and it came out, but better than nothing... disregarding the fact that it then became a #2 Rock Empire Crotch Missile
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mushroom
Mar 1, 2009, 1:51 AM
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looks like you're placing better gear than I was when I started leading.
Just don't fall!
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desertwanderer81
Mar 6, 2009, 5:14 PM
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justroberto wrote: 1) We're not really going to be able to judge the placements from pictures. Take the critiques above (and below) with a giant grain of salt. 2) Placing cams in E-Rock granite can sometimes be a pesky endeavor (that is E-Rock, I assume, or least something in the Llano uplift, right?). This ain't no desert sandstone, and the coarse granite, prominent crystals, and irreglar cracks make placements trickier than most other places I've been. With that said, I happen to like pics 29 and 30 - I'll take slightly overcammed with equally retracted lobes any day out there - that's about as good as you can hope for. I also find that I place a lot more nuts and a lot less tricams and tcus out there. 3) Give me a shout next time you're passing thru Austron to go out. I think the eo.com gathering thing is dead in the water, but I'm still planning on heading out that entire weekend. Will critique placements for food. Or for a belay. Whatever. Edit: Sorry, AC, I thought you were the OP. Not paying attention, clearly.
Your post made me realize that I've never placed cams/nuts in anything other than sandstone! I'm so used to that style, is there any advice you have for a granite newbie?
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That's why I have Hexes, too. 
1
