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Parkerkat
Mar 13, 2009, 9:06 PM
Post #51 of 69
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what can I say.. I missed your spankings and love that it that you'll support any statement so long as I don't agree!
I'm sure we'll be back to fight-night-at-the-forums come monday!
Till then, climb safe if at all! (still to cold here)
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acorneau
Mar 13, 2009, 9:17 PM
Post #52 of 69
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angry wrote: zchandran wrote: ... our gym requires you to be able to clean any 5.9 they pick before you can take the lead course and test. ... ... You are not talking about cleaning a route. There are exactly 2 ways to clean a route. The first is by following a route someone else has led and you remove the gear whether quickdraws or trad gear on your way up .....
Angry, I can see where the gym does in fact mean "clean" a route. Someone else (staff?) climbs a lead route and the perspective student follows, cleaning the draws (unclipping, but leaving on the wall).
My GF "cleans" lead routes in the gym so she can work the moves while still being on top rope.
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crazy_fingers84
Mar 13, 2009, 9:37 PM
Post #53 of 69
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acorneau wrote: angry wrote: zchandran wrote: ... our gym requires you to be able to clean any 5.9 they pick before you can take the lead course and test. ... ... You are not talking about cleaning a route. There are exactly 2 ways to clean a route. The first is by following a route someone else has led and you remove the gear whether quickdraws or trad gear on your way up ..... Angry, I can see where the gym does in fact mean "clean" a route. Someone else (staff?) climbs a lead route and the perspective student follows, cleaning the draws (unclipping, but leaving on the wall). My GF "cleans" lead routes in the gym so she can work the moves while still being on top rope.
I take this to mean that one must be able to "cleanly" climb a route without falls. At the last gym I worked at, this was our rule. You must be able to competently climb at least a 5.9 without falls in order to take a lead test. It had nothing to do with actually cleaning a route or unclipping a rope. In fact, it was usually done on the TR only wall.
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zchandran
Mar 13, 2009, 10:04 PM
Post #54 of 69
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acorneau wrote: angry wrote: zchandran wrote: ... our gym requires you to be able to clean any 5.9 they pick before you can take the lead course and test. ... ... You are not talking about cleaning a route. There are exactly 2 ways to clean a route. The first is by following a route someone else has led and you remove the gear whether quickdraws or trad gear on your way up ..... Angry, I can see where the gym does in fact mean "clean" a route. Someone else (staff?) climbs a lead route and the perspective student follows, cleaning the draws (unclipping, but leaving on the wall). My GF "cleans" lead routes in the gym so she can work the moves while still being on top rope.
Angry was correct about my misuse of terminology.
My gym has you toprope a 5.9 route of their choice. If you can climb it without takes or falls, then you can take the lead class, and get lead certified.
You don't have to have any knowledge of how to clip or unclip to take the class, just be able to toprope 5.9.
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ladyscarlett
Mar 13, 2009, 11:46 PM
Post #55 of 69
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zchandran wrote: Angry was correct about my misuse of terminology. My gym has you toprope a 5.9 route of their choice. If you can climb it without takes or falls, then you can take the lead class, and get lead certified. You don't have to have any knowledge of how to clip or unclip to take the class, just be able to toprope 5.9.
Lucky you, for my gym it's 10c/d. In the gym, but still... Your almost there - keep it up!
Have fun!
ls
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I_do
Mar 13, 2009, 11:54 PM
Post #56 of 69
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USnavy wrote: zchandran wrote: I'm a new climber and very slowly progressing from 5.8 to 5.9 or so. My main goal is to climb outdoors, which I haven't done yet. I plan to do that when the weather gets warmer this year. In the gym, when my grip goes during a climb, is it a better habit to just do a take for a bit and rest both arms, or to make an effort to downclimb, find a better spot, and shake out one at a time as best as I can? I might be overthinking this, but I'm trying to develop good habits while I'm still a newbie. Neither. Climb until you fall. Don’t ask for a take if you get tired. It’s bad style and if you get into that habit it will be harder to progress. The best habit to get into is to keep pushing yourself until you either make it to the top or fall. Now if we are talking about dangerous run outs or extreme trad then that’s a different story. But for safe sport routes and top rope routes there is little reason not to max yourself out.
What about wanting to work the route? If you don't have your belayer take while in the gym you'll drop quite a lot, quite often to below one of the cruxes/hard bits and you end up climbing that same bit over and over while if you take you can work the rest of the route and then start linking sections.
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I_do
Mar 14, 2009, 12:14 AM
Post #57 of 69
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ladyscarlett wrote: zchandran wrote: Angry was correct about my misuse of terminology. My gym has you toprope a 5.9 route of their choice. If you can climb it without takes or falls, then you can take the lead class, and get lead certified. You don't have to have any knowledge of how to clip or unclip to take the class, just be able to toprope 5.9. Lucky you, for my gym it's 10c/d. In the gym, but still... Your almost there - keep it up! Have fun! ls
That's ridiculous! Whats with this attitude you need to be able to climb some arbitrary grade in order to lead? Climbing=leading=climbing as weak of a leader I am it's till the most challenging and rewarding form of climbing and I usually end up climbing harder outside then in the gym anyways...
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ladyscarlett
Mar 14, 2009, 12:40 AM
Post #58 of 69
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I_do wrote: ladyscarlett wrote: zchandran wrote: Angry was correct about my misuse of terminology. My gym has you toprope a 5.9 route of their choice. If you can climb it without takes or falls, then you can take the lead class, and get lead certified. You don't have to have any knowledge of how to clip or unclip to take the class, just be able to toprope 5.9. Lucky you, for my gym it's 10c/d. In the gym, but still... Your almost there - keep it up! Have fun! ls That's ridiculous! Whats with this attitude you need to be able to climb some arbitrary grade in order to lead? Climbing=leading=climbing as weak of a leader I am it's till the most challenging and rewarding form of climbing and I usually end up climbing harder outside then in the gym anyways...
I agree, I lead what I can outside...but it doesn't change the gym rules...which is why it's only the training gym...and the gym does very little to build the lead head in my opinion, but is it better than nothing?
I would say yes
But is it better than outside?
NO!
We all do what we can with what we have available to us afterall
ls
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dingus
Mar 14, 2009, 4:12 AM
Post #59 of 69
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I used to go to one of the rock gyms in Sacramento, back when it first opened.
I'm an oddball of course but one of the things I liked to do on the boulder circuit was do laps on the kiddie routes when no one was looking, up to the ceiling and back down again, over and over.
One of the owners caught me one day, like 20 feet up. He was angry! He sorta shamed me down with the 'you should goddamn know better!'
I knew I had the lecture coming so I took it like a man. I stopped doing it after that but I gotta tell you someting - that really helped my mountain scramble head, to do that.
Up and down on 5.5 routes, bid smooth moves, never stopping, flowing, up and down. Try it sometime. You may look ridiculous ... correction, you WILL look ridiculous. But try it anyway!
DMT
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curt
Mar 14, 2009, 4:27 AM
Post #60 of 69
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crazy_fingers84 wrote: acorneau wrote: angry wrote: zchandran wrote: ... our gym requires you to be able to clean any 5.9 they pick before you can take the lead course and test. ... ... You are not talking about cleaning a route. There are exactly 2 ways to clean a route. The first is by following a route someone else has led and you remove the gear whether quickdraws or trad gear on your way up ..... Angry, I can see where the gym does in fact mean "clean" a route. Someone else (staff?) climbs a lead route and the perspective student follows, cleaning the draws (unclipping, but leaving on the wall). My GF "cleans" lead routes in the gym so she can work the moves while still being on top rope. I take this to mean that one must be able to "cleanly" climb a route without falls. At the last gym I worked at, this was our rule. You must be able to competently climb at least a 5.9 without falls in order to take a lead test. It had nothing to do with actually cleaning a route or unclipping a rope. In fact, it was usually done on the TR only wall.
It's the gym. Cleaning a route could also mean scrubbing all the chalk, toe jam, blood, spooge and other bodily fluids off the holds. 
Curt
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d0nk3yk0n9
Mar 14, 2009, 11:17 AM
Post #61 of 69
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Registered: Jan 22, 2009
Posts: 182
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I_do wrote: ladyscarlett wrote: zchandran wrote: Angry was correct about my misuse of terminology. My gym has you toprope a 5.9 route of their choice. If you can climb it without takes or falls, then you can take the lead class, and get lead certified. You don't have to have any knowledge of how to clip or unclip to take the class, just be able to toprope 5.9. Lucky you, for my gym it's 10c/d. In the gym, but still... Your almost there - keep it up! Have fun! ls That's ridiculous! Whats with this attitude you need to be able to climb some arbitrary grade in order to lead? Climbing=leading=climbing as weak of a leader I am it's till the most challenging and rewarding form of climbing and I usually end up climbing harder outside then in the gym anyways...
I know that the gym I'm in wants you to be able to lead 5.9, and I think it's because the easiest lead routes they set are 5.8-5.9, so they want you to be able to safely climb some lead routes without problems before you start leading harder stuff. At least, that's what I think. I can ask sometime and report back.
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I_do
Mar 14, 2009, 2:46 PM
Post #62 of 69
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d0nk3yk0n9 wrote: I_do wrote: ladyscarlett wrote: zchandran wrote: Angry was correct about my misuse of terminology. My gym has you toprope a 5.9 route of their choice. If you can climb it without takes or falls, then you can take the lead class, and get lead certified. You don't have to have any knowledge of how to clip or unclip to take the class, just be able to toprope 5.9. Lucky you, for my gym it's 10c/d. In the gym, but still... Your almost there - keep it up! Have fun! ls That's ridiculous! Whats with this attitude you need to be able to climb some arbitrary grade in order to lead? Climbing=leading=climbing as weak of a leader I am it's till the most challenging and rewarding form of climbing and I usually end up climbing harder outside then in the gym anyways... I know that the gym I'm in wants you to be able to lead 5.9, and I think it's because the easiest lead routes they set are 5.8-5.9, so they want you to be able to safely climb some lead routes without problems before you start leading harder stuff. At least, that's what I think. I can ask sometime and report back.
Well that kinda makes a bit more sense... Learning to lead should start on something relatively easy, we just pull the rope on one of the walls and people can lead whatever's there starting at 5.5ish...
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rockandlice
Mar 14, 2009, 5:16 PM
Post #63 of 69
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angry wrote: Example, "I sent the red route, on top-rope" (you then kiss your bicep and whisper "I love you" to it). Everyone laughs, your status has been cemented.
A+, Hope you don't mind this in my siggy line.
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mar_leclerc
Mar 14, 2009, 9:00 PM
Post #64 of 69
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Just go for it and fall off. In a gym or a safe outdoor climb nothing bad ought to happen.
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jt512
Mar 14, 2009, 9:27 PM
Post #65 of 69
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Parkerkat wrote: One of the skills downclimbing can really help work on aside from the act of being able to climb down is FOOTWORK! ..the bane of sooo many climbers starting out... as well as working antagonistic (sp?) mucles!
Down-climbing does not work muscles that are antagonistic to up-climbing. They use the same muscles.
Jay
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angry
Mar 15, 2009, 10:21 AM
Post #66 of 69
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jt512 wrote: Parkerkat wrote: One of the skills downclimbing can really help work on aside from the act of being able to climb down is FOOTWORK! ..the bane of sooo many climbers starting out... as well as working antagonistic (sp?) mucles! Down-climbing does not work muscles that are antagonistic to up-climbing. They use the same muscles. Jay
Don't you (of all people) go fucking up my killfile.
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Parkerkat
Mar 16, 2009, 1:35 PM
Post #67 of 69
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I dunno.. .so far in my limited experience I've actually found the easier grade routes like a 5.8 to be very poorly bolted since they are so easy... and found that 5.10 outdoors is where the "sweet spot" is....perhaps that has somethng to do with it? Personally I think its good form to have enough stamina for a 10 before taking on lead in a gym.
that said, if you feel you're ready, do it up!.. I thnk the gyms just need to have some criteria more then the fact you like to to climb!
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stonefox
Mar 16, 2009, 4:59 PM
Post #68 of 69
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I try to stay on the wall for everything for the simple fact that my gym walls are 27 feet high. When I let go of the wall when I get to the top and get lowered down I am programmed to climb 27 feet. The routes I climb outside are not 27 feet and for a while I was finding that subconciously I was pumping out while climbing outside around 30 feet up a climb. So to reprogram I stay on the wall for everything. Climbing to failure will increase your climbing threshold of tolerance and strength and improve your lead head. Afterall, not all rests are taken on a belayers taught rope you know? For me, climbing, downclimbing, resting and shaking out on the wall are all things that have improved my endurance, my strength, my lead head as well as supressing panic in sticky situations. If you can just breathe and calm down while staying on the wall you can really surprise yourself and finish the route. So overall, no matter how long you have been climbing or what your goals are, I think downclimbing has tons of benefits in the long run. I can't think of one con to downclimbing.
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JakubBujak
Mar 20, 2009, 4:45 AM
Post #69 of 69
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I tend to downclimb unless I am completely hosed. It really does help your footwork and balance.
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