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shmancy


Mar 16, 2009, 3:01 PM
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private land?  (North_America: United_States: Pennsylvania: Southeastern_Region: Buck_Road_Boulders)
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As far as I know (and I live right down the street) this land is private. I don't think this area should be on the web without more research.


Alpine07


Mar 16, 2009, 4:02 PM
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Re: [shmancy] private land? [In reply to]
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shmancy wrote:
As far as I know (and I live right down the street) this land is private. I don't think this area should be on the web without more research.

Seeing as you don't seem to know a whole lot about it, from the way that you worded your post. Maybe you should do more research before you post on the web, that it shouldn't be on the web. Or else give us more details if you have them. Not just "as far as I know." Just because it is private land does not automatically make it illegal to climb there.


funk


Jun 8, 2011, 10:13 AM
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Re: [Alpine07] private land? [In reply to]
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Alpine, seeing that you don't seem to know a whole lot about basic laws regarding landowners and private property, when something is on private property, it means no trespassing; therefore the Southampton police have EVERY RIGHT TO ARREST YOU FOR TRESPASSING, if the owner of the (private) land decides to call the police. It's automatically illegal to step foot on that land without the owner's permission. Alpine, sit down son, you are wrong.


TradEddie


Jun 8, 2011, 5:38 PM
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Re: [funk] private land? [In reply to]
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funk wrote:
It's automatically illegal to step foot on that land without the owner's permission. Alpine, sit down son, you are wrong.

Spend 30 seconds on Google before posting something like that. Simply untrue.


http://law.onecle.com/.../00.035.003.000.html


Partner j_ung


Jun 8, 2011, 7:57 PM
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Re: [TradEddie] private land? [In reply to]
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TradEddie wrote:
funk wrote:
It's automatically illegal to step foot on that land without the owner's permission. Alpine, sit down son, you are wrong.

Spend 30 seconds on Google before posting something like that. Simply untrue.


http://law.onecle.com/.../00.035.003.000.html

Surprising! Good find!


funk


Jun 9, 2011, 5:29 AM
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Re: [j_ung] private land? [In reply to]
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you mean like this:
" (b.1) Simple trespasser.--
(1) A person commits an offense if, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he enters or remains in any place for the purpose of:
(iii) defacing or damaging the premises.

that's chalk.


sungam


Jun 9, 2011, 6:04 AM
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Re: [funk] private land? [In reply to]
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Um, I am not going to pretend to know the exact details of this climb area, but you are aware that some private land owners allow climbing to take place on their land, right? In fact, many very popular destination crags are on privite land.


johnwesely


Jun 9, 2011, 6:12 AM
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Re: [sungam] private land? [In reply to]
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sungam wrote:
Um, I am not going to pretend to know the exact details of this climb area, but you are aware that some private land owners allow climbing to take place on their land, right? In fact, many very popular destination crags are on privite land.


No way.


sungam


Jun 9, 2011, 6:14 AM
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Re: [johnwesely] private land? [In reply to]
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johnwesely wrote:
sungam wrote:
Um, I am not going to pretend to know the exact details of this climb area, but you are aware that some private land owners allow climbing to take place on their land, right? In fact, many very popular destination crags are on privite land.


No way.
YES WAY, DUDE.


funk


Jun 9, 2011, 6:42 AM
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Re: [johnwesely] private land? [In reply to]
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Yes, i'm aware that many climbing areas are on private land; however, i'm sure in about 90% of the time, agreements have been worked out between the land owner and user groups. in this instance, i don't think so.


johnwesely


Jun 9, 2011, 6:57 AM
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Re: [funk] private land? [In reply to]
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funk wrote:
Yes, i'm aware that many climbing areas are on private land; however, i'm sure in about 90% of the time, agreements have been worked out between the land owner and user groups. in this instance, i don't think so.

You don't think so or you don't know so.


sungam


Jun 9, 2011, 7:00 AM
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funk wrote:
Yes, i'm aware that many climbing areas are on private land; however, i'm sure in about 90% of the time, agreements have been worked out between the land owner and user groups. in this instance, i don't think so.
Well, you seemed to chastize Alpine pretty hard for not being completely inline with exactly what's going on. All he said was "Just because it is private land does not automatically make it illegal to climb there." which you kinda jumped on him for. Seeing as you yourself were not 100% on the situation, maybe that was a bit harsh. Seems like what needs to happen here is either someone with the facts regarding the legallity of climbing at the location in question needs to step foreward and clarify, or someone needs to go forth and find the facts. This is likely most easily done by contacting either the local climbing coalition or the land owner.


funk


Jun 9, 2011, 7:49 AM
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Re: [sungam] private land? [In reply to]
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i wasn't chastising alpine for for not knowing what's going on, as much as his ignorance for jumping on someone (a local) who asked that this location be kept off the internet due to the (unknown and potential) access issues.

Had he said, Yeah, it makes sense that an area with insecure access shouldn't be posted on the internet until something has been worked out, rather than attacking Mr. Shmancy for politely asking to refrain from further internet discussions, i wouldn't have been quick to jump on him for acting like a juvenile (but then again, he may be 16, so it's cool - just grow up).


sungam


Jun 9, 2011, 7:58 AM
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Re: [funk] private land? [In reply to]
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He didn't say that it shouldn't be put online, he said it should be taken off. I think someone should PM mushroomsamba and see whether he/she is in the know. It's fairly likely that they are not an idiot, and wouldn't have gone through all the effort of uploading that information without knowing what the access situation is.

Either way, if it is up I'm on the boat that says it's likely that access is in place, and it shouldn't all be deleted unless we find out it isn't. If we deleted every crag that was on privite land that didn't have a thread attached in which someone clearly stated the access arrangement... Well, quite a lot of crags would be deleted needlessly.


Partner drector


Jun 9, 2011, 8:12 AM
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Re: [funk] private land? [In reply to]
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funk wrote:
i [sic] don't think so.

There is a big difference from thinking something and knowing it.

I think this is the part of the law that is important:

3503. Criminal trespass.
(a) Buildings and occupied structures.--
(1) A person commits an offense if, knowing that he is
not licensed or privileged to do so, he:...

Notice that it says you are trespassing if you are not licensed or privileged. There is no automatic breaking of the law when you step on private land, as you suggested earlier.

The OP may have wanted something deleted from an informational database because of their own personal assumption. Since some climbing areas are on private land and because it is listed as a valid climbing area, I would have assumed that it was legal and that there was permission until at least a tiny bit of information said so to the contrary.

In my opinion, it was right to question the knowledge of the OP in this situation.

If it is found to be off-limits then it should be taken off the list immediately or marked as off limits so that anyone who does look it up can find out that fact.

Dave


funk


Jun 9, 2011, 8:25 AM
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Re: [sungam] private land? [In reply to]
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bottom line: if your spot is private - keep it a secret, keep your mouth shut, leave no trace, brush your holds when you're done, park out of the way where you're not drawing attention to all of your NRG, RRG, GNKX, 5.10, THULE, MadRock, Powerbar, ClifBar, LunaBar, MountainGear, Trek, LaSportiva, Scarpa, HB, rock rat, Sierra Designs, Marmot, sierra club, Mammut, rockshox stickers. posers.


johnwesely


Jun 9, 2011, 8:31 AM
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funk wrote:
bottom line: if your spot is private - keep it a secret, keep your mouth shut, leave no trace, brush your holds when you're done, park out of the way where you're not drawing attention to all of your NRG, RRG, GNKX, 5.10, THULE, MadRock, Powerbar, ClifBar, LunaBar, MountainGear, Trek, LaSportiva, Scarpa, HB, rock rat, Sierra Designs, Marmot, sierra club, Mammut, rockshox stickers. posers.

Now that's brand loyalty.


TradEddie


Jun 9, 2011, 8:44 AM
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Re: [drector] private land? [In reply to]
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drector wrote:
funk wrote:
i [sic] don't think so.

There is a big difference from thinking something and knowing it.

I think this is the part of the law that is important:

3503. Criminal trespass.
(a) Buildings and occupied structures.--
(1) A person commits an offense if, knowing that he is
not licensed or privileged to do so, he:...

Notice that it says you are trespassing if you are not licensed or privileged. There is no automatic breaking of the law when you step on private land, as you suggested earlier.

Not that I disagree with your conclusion, but that section applies only to Buildings or occupied structures.

The section that applies to outdoors says that unless you are asked to leave and refuse, or the land is posted, or fenced to manifestly prevent intruders, it is not trespassing unless there is some more malicious intent. Couldn't judge on whether chalk on rocks count as defacing premises.

Basic reading comprehension folks, please.

TE


funk


Jun 9, 2011, 8:47 AM
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Re: [johnwesely] private land? [In reply to]
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posers with all of the stickers who don't want to progress beyond trad climbing 5.9 are the worst.
gym rats who barely climb outside and when they do, they spray about the green tape problem left of the cave (they'd get some cred if they actually tried the problems in the cave), people decked out in windstopper softshells, big sexy gregory packs, shiny snatchlinks and wind chimes, who take an hour to set up a top rope when there are bolts to clip into are just as bad.

did anyone see the new southpark last night when everything seems like shit to stan when he turned ten. i felt the same way when i turned 17 and realized that there are those who climb and those who are rock climbers and there's a massive chasm between the two parties. 14 years later i'm 10x more bitter and 15x stronger. hide your projects kids.


johnwesely


Jun 9, 2011, 9:17 AM
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funk wrote:
posers with all of the stickers who don't want to progress beyond trad climbing 5.9 are the worst.
gym rats who barely climb outside and when they do, they spray about the green tape problem left of the cave (they'd get some cred if they actually tried the problems in the cave), people decked out in windstopper softshells, big sexy gregory packs, shiny snatchlinks and wind chimes, who take an hour to set up a top rope when there are bolts to clip into are just as bad.

did anyone see the new southpark last night when everything seems like shit to stan when he turned ten. i felt the same way when i turned 17 and realized that there are those who climb and those who are rock climbers and there's a massive chasm between the two parties. 14 years later i'm 10x more bitter and 15x stronger. hide your projects kids.

You sound delightful, a true gentleman.


funk


Jun 9, 2011, 9:26 AM
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Re: [johnwesely] private land? [In reply to]
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thank you for the compliment. i take it you're on your way outside to scrape the stickers off your car...


johnwesely


Jun 9, 2011, 9:28 AM
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Re: [funk] private land? [In reply to]
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funk wrote:
thank you for the compliment. i take it you're on your way outside to scrape the stickers off your car...

If only I had a car.


altelis


Jun 9, 2011, 10:03 AM
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funk wrote:
posers with all of the stickers who don't want to progress beyond trad climbing 5.9 are the worst.
gym rats who barely climb outside and when they do, they spray about the green tape problem left of the cave (they'd get some cred if they actually tried the problems in the cave), people decked out in windstopper softshells, big sexy gregory packs, shiny snatchlinks and wind chimes, who take an hour to set up a top rope when there are bolts to clip into are just as bad.

did anyone see the new southpark last night when everything seems like shit to stan when he turned ten. i felt the same way when i turned 17 and realized that there are those who climb and those who are rock climbers and there's a massive chasm between the two parties. 14 years later i'm 10x more bitter and 15x stronger. hide your projects kids.


i actually find this really interesting, and it kinda resonates with how i feel. or rather, how i felt when i was 17. now that i'm 28 i feel i've matured a bit beyond that perspective....


funk


Jun 9, 2011, 10:15 AM
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Re: [altelis] private land? [In reply to]
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i take it you've changed teams then. it's cool. as long as you still bring it. i still find posers and gear whores obnoxious.

reference Jadakiss' "Who's Real".


sungam


Jun 9, 2011, 10:33 AM
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Re: [funk] private land? [In reply to]
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funk wrote:
bottom line: if your spot is private - keep it a secret, keep your mouth shut, leave no trace, brush your holds when you're done, park out of the way where you're not drawing attention to all of your NRG, RRG, GNKX, 5.10, THULE, MadRock, Powerbar, ClifBar, LunaBar, MountainGear, Trek, LaSportiva, Scarpa, HB, rock rat, Sierra Designs, Marmot, sierra club, Mammut, rockshox stickers. posers.
HB, huh? Oldskool!

But here was me thinking that if the crag is on privite land you contact the land owner and arrange access.

Edit to add: You frenched enigma, didn't you?
Did you not see what happened to ceebo when he did that? You guys gotta learn to say "no, you crazy uncompreshesible psycho bitch!".


(This post was edited by sungam on Jun 9, 2011, 10:34 AM)

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