|
shmancy
Mar 16, 2009, 10:01 PM
Post #1 of 46
(9093 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 19, 2003
Posts: 3
|
As far as I know (and I live right down the street) this land is private. I don't think this area should be on the web without more research.
|
|
|
|
|
Alpine07
Mar 16, 2009, 11:02 PM
Post #2 of 46
(9063 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 1, 2007
Posts: 842
|
shmancy wrote: As far as I know (and I live right down the street) this land is private. I don't think this area should be on the web without more research. Seeing as you don't seem to know a whole lot about it, from the way that you worded your post. Maybe you should do more research before you post on the web, that it shouldn't be on the web. Or else give us more details if you have them. Not just "as far as I know." Just because it is private land does not automatically make it illegal to climb there.
|
|
|
|
|
funk
Jun 8, 2011, 5:13 PM
Post #3 of 46
(8771 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 9, 2008
Posts: 120
|
Alpine, seeing that you don't seem to know a whole lot about basic laws regarding landowners and private property, when something is on private property, it means no trespassing; therefore the Southampton police have EVERY RIGHT TO ARREST YOU FOR TRESPASSING, if the owner of the (private) land decides to call the police. It's automatically illegal to step foot on that land without the owner's permission. Alpine, sit down son, you are wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
TradEddie
Jun 9, 2011, 12:38 AM
Post #4 of 46
(8725 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 29, 2007
Posts: 164
|
funk wrote: It's automatically illegal to step foot on that land without the owner's permission. Alpine, sit down son, you are wrong. Spend 30 seconds on Google before posting something like that. Simply untrue. http://law.onecle.com/.../00.035.003.000.html
|
|
|
|
|
j_ung
Jun 9, 2011, 2:57 AM
Post #5 of 46
(8698 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690
|
TradEddie wrote: funk wrote: It's automatically illegal to step foot on that land without the owner's permission. Alpine, sit down son, you are wrong. Spend 30 seconds on Google before posting something like that. Simply untrue. http://law.onecle.com/.../00.035.003.000.html Surprising! Good find!
|
|
|
|
|
funk
Jun 9, 2011, 12:29 PM
Post #6 of 46
(8669 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 9, 2008
Posts: 120
|
you mean like this: " (b.1) Simple trespasser.-- (1) A person commits an offense if, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he enters or remains in any place for the purpose of: (iii) defacing or damaging the premises. that's chalk.
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Jun 9, 2011, 1:04 PM
Post #7 of 46
(8658 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
Um, I am not going to pretend to know the exact details of this climb area, but you are aware that some private land owners allow climbing to take place on their land, right? In fact, many very popular destination crags are on privite land.
|
|
|
|
|
johnwesely
Jun 9, 2011, 1:12 PM
Post #8 of 46
(8652 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 13, 2006
Posts: 5360
|
sungam wrote: Um, I am not going to pretend to know the exact details of this climb area, but you are aware that some private land owners allow climbing to take place on their land, right? In fact, many very popular destination crags are on privite land. No way.
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Jun 9, 2011, 1:14 PM
Post #9 of 46
(8650 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
johnwesely wrote: sungam wrote: Um, I am not going to pretend to know the exact details of this climb area, but you are aware that some private land owners allow climbing to take place on their land, right? In fact, many very popular destination crags are on privite land. No way. YES WAY, DUDE.
|
|
|
|
|
funk
Jun 9, 2011, 1:42 PM
Post #10 of 46
(8635 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 9, 2008
Posts: 120
|
Yes, i'm aware that many climbing areas are on private land; however, i'm sure in about 90% of the time, agreements have been worked out between the land owner and user groups. in this instance, i don't think so.
|
|
|
|
|
johnwesely
Jun 9, 2011, 1:57 PM
Post #11 of 46
(8627 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 13, 2006
Posts: 5360
|
funk wrote: Yes, i'm aware that many climbing areas are on private land; however, i'm sure in about 90% of the time, agreements have been worked out between the land owner and user groups. in this instance, i don't think so. You don't think so or you don't know so.
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Jun 9, 2011, 2:00 PM
Post #12 of 46
(8626 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
funk wrote: Yes, i'm aware that many climbing areas are on private land; however, i'm sure in about 90% of the time, agreements have been worked out between the land owner and user groups. in this instance, i don't think so. Well, you seemed to chastize Alpine pretty hard for not being completely inline with exactly what's going on. All he said was "Just because it is private land does not automatically make it illegal to climb there." which you kinda jumped on him for. Seeing as you yourself were not 100% on the situation, maybe that was a bit harsh. Seems like what needs to happen here is either someone with the facts regarding the legallity of climbing at the location in question needs to step foreward and clarify, or someone needs to go forth and find the facts. This is likely most easily done by contacting either the local climbing coalition or the land owner.
|
|
|
|
|
funk
Jun 9, 2011, 2:49 PM
Post #13 of 46
(8604 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 9, 2008
Posts: 120
|
i wasn't chastising alpine for for not knowing what's going on, as much as his ignorance for jumping on someone (a local) who asked that this location be kept off the internet due to the (unknown and potential) access issues. Had he said, Yeah, it makes sense that an area with insecure access shouldn't be posted on the internet until something has been worked out, rather than attacking Mr. Shmancy for politely asking to refrain from further internet discussions, i wouldn't have been quick to jump on him for acting like a juvenile (but then again, he may be 16, so it's cool - just grow up).
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Jun 9, 2011, 2:58 PM
Post #14 of 46
(8600 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
He didn't say that it shouldn't be put online, he said it should be taken off. I think someone should PM mushroomsamba and see whether he/she is in the know. It's fairly likely that they are not an idiot, and wouldn't have gone through all the effort of uploading that information without knowing what the access situation is. Either way, if it is up I'm on the boat that says it's likely that access is in place, and it shouldn't all be deleted unless we find out it isn't. If we deleted every crag that was on privite land that didn't have a thread attached in which someone clearly stated the access arrangement... Well, quite a lot of crags would be deleted needlessly.
|
|
|
|
|
funk
Jun 9, 2011, 3:25 PM
Post #16 of 46
(8591 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 9, 2008
Posts: 120
|
bottom line: if your spot is private - keep it a secret, keep your mouth shut, leave no trace, brush your holds when you're done, park out of the way where you're not drawing attention to all of your NRG, RRG, GNKX, 5.10, THULE, MadRock, Powerbar, ClifBar, LunaBar, MountainGear, Trek, LaSportiva, Scarpa, HB, rock rat, Sierra Designs, Marmot, sierra club, Mammut, rockshox stickers. posers.
|
|
|
|
|
johnwesely
Jun 9, 2011, 3:31 PM
Post #17 of 46
(8580 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 13, 2006
Posts: 5360
|
funk wrote: bottom line: if your spot is private - keep it a secret, keep your mouth shut, leave no trace, brush your holds when you're done, park out of the way where you're not drawing attention to all of your NRG, RRG, GNKX, 5.10, THULE, MadRock, Powerbar, ClifBar, LunaBar, MountainGear, Trek, LaSportiva, Scarpa, HB, rock rat, Sierra Designs, Marmot, sierra club, Mammut, rockshox stickers. posers. Now that's brand loyalty.
|
|
|
|
|
TradEddie
Jun 9, 2011, 3:44 PM
Post #18 of 46
(8575 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 29, 2007
Posts: 164
|
drector wrote: funk wrote: i [sic] don't think so. There is a big difference from thinking something and knowing it. I think this is the part of the law that is important: § 3503. Criminal trespass. (a) Buildings and occupied structures.-- (1) A person commits an offense if, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he:... Notice that it says you are trespassing if you are not licensed or privileged. There is no automatic breaking of the law when you step on private land, as you suggested earlier. Not that I disagree with your conclusion, but that section applies only to Buildings or occupied structures. The section that applies to outdoors says that unless you are asked to leave and refuse, or the land is posted, or fenced to manifestly prevent intruders, it is not trespassing unless there is some more malicious intent. Couldn't judge on whether chalk on rocks count as defacing premises. Basic reading comprehension folks, please. TE
|
|
|
|
|
funk
Jun 9, 2011, 3:47 PM
Post #19 of 46
(8575 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 9, 2008
Posts: 120
|
posers with all of the stickers who don't want to progress beyond trad climbing 5.9 are the worst. gym rats who barely climb outside and when they do, they spray about the green tape problem left of the cave (they'd get some cred if they actually tried the problems in the cave), people decked out in windstopper softshells, big sexy gregory packs, shiny snatchlinks and wind chimes, who take an hour to set up a top rope when there are bolts to clip into are just as bad. did anyone see the new southpark last night when everything seems like shit to stan when he turned ten. i felt the same way when i turned 17 and realized that there are those who climb and those who are rock climbers and there's a massive chasm between the two parties. 14 years later i'm 10x more bitter and 15x stronger. hide your projects kids.
|
|
|
|
|
johnwesely
Jun 9, 2011, 4:17 PM
Post #20 of 46
(8565 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 13, 2006
Posts: 5360
|
funk wrote: posers with all of the stickers who don't want to progress beyond trad climbing 5.9 are the worst. gym rats who barely climb outside and when they do, they spray about the green tape problem left of the cave (they'd get some cred if they actually tried the problems in the cave), people decked out in windstopper softshells, big sexy gregory packs, shiny snatchlinks and wind chimes, who take an hour to set up a top rope when there are bolts to clip into are just as bad. did anyone see the new southpark last night when everything seems like shit to stan when he turned ten. i felt the same way when i turned 17 and realized that there are those who climb and those who are rock climbers and there's a massive chasm between the two parties. 14 years later i'm 10x more bitter and 15x stronger. hide your projects kids. You sound delightful, a true gentleman.
|
|
|
|
|
funk
Jun 9, 2011, 4:26 PM
Post #21 of 46
(8561 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 9, 2008
Posts: 120
|
thank you for the compliment. i take it you're on your way outside to scrape the stickers off your car...
|
|
|
|
|
johnwesely
Jun 9, 2011, 4:28 PM
Post #22 of 46
(8559 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 13, 2006
Posts: 5360
|
funk wrote: thank you for the compliment. i take it you're on your way outside to scrape the stickers off your car... If only I had a car.
|
|
|
|
|
altelis
Jun 9, 2011, 5:03 PM
Post #23 of 46
(8544 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 2168
|
funk wrote: posers with all of the stickers who don't want to progress beyond trad climbing 5.9 are the worst. gym rats who barely climb outside and when they do, they spray about the green tape problem left of the cave (they'd get some cred if they actually tried the problems in the cave), people decked out in windstopper softshells, big sexy gregory packs, shiny snatchlinks and wind chimes, who take an hour to set up a top rope when there are bolts to clip into are just as bad. did anyone see the new southpark last night when everything seems like shit to stan when he turned ten. i felt the same way when i turned 17 and realized that there are those who climb and those who are rock climbers and there's a massive chasm between the two parties. 14 years later i'm 10x more bitter and 15x stronger. hide your projects kids. i actually find this really interesting, and it kinda resonates with how i feel. or rather, how i felt when i was 17. now that i'm 28 i feel i've matured a bit beyond that perspective....
|
|
|
|
|
funk
Jun 9, 2011, 5:15 PM
Post #24 of 46
(8542 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 9, 2008
Posts: 120
|
i take it you've changed teams then. it's cool. as long as you still bring it. i still find posers and gear whores obnoxious. reference Jadakiss' "Who's Real".
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Jun 9, 2011, 5:33 PM
Post #25 of 46
(8533 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
funk wrote: bottom line: if your spot is private - keep it a secret, keep your mouth shut, leave no trace, brush your holds when you're done, park out of the way where you're not drawing attention to all of your NRG, RRG, GNKX, 5.10, THULE, MadRock, Powerbar, ClifBar, LunaBar, MountainGear, Trek, LaSportiva, Scarpa, HB, rock rat, Sierra Designs, Marmot, sierra club, Mammut, rockshox stickers. posers. HB, huh? Oldskool! But here was me thinking that if the crag is on privite land you contact the land owner and arrange access. Edit to add: You frenched enigma, didn't you? Did you not see what happened to ceebo when he did that? You guys gotta learn to say "no, you crazy uncompreshesible psycho bitch!".
(This post was edited by sungam on Jun 9, 2011, 5:34 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
|