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jeremy11
Mar 15, 2009, 12:11 AM
Post #51 of 70
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Registered: May 28, 2004
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the steel lilbro and Top Secret Cam need to be destroyed still! Just breaking the sling tell us nothing about the strength of the device. Thru-bolt or cable or whatever you need to break them!
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rschap
Mar 15, 2009, 3:29 AM
Post #52 of 70
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X2
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cosmicharlie
Mar 15, 2009, 6:25 AM
Post #53 of 70
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ditto on that. I also need to agree that my nutter probably only held 3.3 KN. :-( ah well thats what i get for drilling solid copper rod and trying to crimp then solder it.... next year.... lazerwelds baby.
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adatesman
Mar 15, 2009, 2:16 PM
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cosmicharlie
Mar 16, 2009, 3:10 PM
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the good thing is that they would all work as aid gear...
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bhickey
Mar 18, 2009, 4:11 AM
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I think you're overestimating the steel bro. I think left the holes for the cord too sharp. I would have been better off clove hitching it with some 1" webbing. For the Alu Lil' Bro, I don't think sling positioning would have made a difference. Take another look at the image, the aluminum deformation doesn't seem related to the sling. Instead it looks like it failed in compression. We should have used 6061 instead of some bar we found lying around. I'd put the alu 'bro at 3.78. Aric: Are you going to try to snap the Steel 'bro?
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adatesman
Mar 18, 2009, 2:11 PM
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kennoyce
Mar 18, 2009, 7:40 PM
Post #59 of 70
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Registered: Mar 6, 2001
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sweet, I just got back from a 5 day trip to Red Rocks, and was all anxious to find out what my cam held. It looks like everyone else is just as anxious to find out as me since no one has found out yet, so that rocks. As a side note I made a second updated cam that I took on my trip. I increased the axle size from 1/4" to 5/16", the stem is 1/8" 7x7 stainless cable (full loop like on a nut) instead of the dyneema (it costs less), the trigger has been redesigned to be lighter and more ergonomic, I changed the trigger wires from 3 mm cord to 1/16" cable, and I added a sling. (See attached picture since I don't know how to get it to show up in the post). edited to try and get the picture to show up.
(This post was edited by kennoyce on Mar 18, 2009, 7:43 PM)
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kennoyce
Mar 18, 2009, 8:10 PM
Post #60 of 70
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In reply to: Yeah, its all A1 until you fall.... and then it suddenly becomes A4 as one homemade piece after another explodes..... nah, most short falls (A1 and clipping each piece) will produce a force below 6 kN, so most of these pieces would be fine.
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cracklover
Mar 18, 2009, 8:19 PM
Post #61 of 70
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Kenn's new cam: Looks nice! Cheers! GO
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kennoyce
Mar 18, 2009, 8:57 PM
Post #63 of 70
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Hey thanks for getting that pic to show up.
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rschap
Mar 19, 2009, 12:15 AM
Post #65 of 70
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Registered: Sep 30, 2005
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bhickey wrote: I think you're overestimating the steel bro. I think left the holes for the cord too sharp. I would have been better off clove hitching it with some 1" webbing. For the Alu Lil' Bro, I don't think sling positioning would have made a difference. Take another look at the image, the aluminum deformation doesn't seem related to the sling. Instead it looks like it failed in compression. We should have used 6061 instead of some bar we found lying around. I'd put the alu 'bro at 3.78. Aric: Are you going to try to snap the Steel 'bro? What I was thinking is if the sling was on the other side the force would have been pushing down and into the aluminum along the cylindrical shape meaning it would have to crush the cylinder to fail. The steel wouldn’t have blown out the side like that. Of course I’m saying this without seeing the video or even knowing how much it held. I’m just think back to 6th grade when we stacked like 25 encyclopedias on top of a piece of lined paper that was rolled into a cylinder. The Cylinder is a very strong shape.
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fxgranite
Mar 19, 2009, 7:14 PM
Post #66 of 70
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Registered: Jun 1, 2007
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fxgranite wrote: I'm in. 22.3 kN - Mank 20.3 kN - Top Secret Cam Prototype Version 2.1 5.6 kN - Green 2cam 20.1 kN - Aluminum Lilbro 15.3 kN - Kenn's Kam 6.3 kN - Webcam 10.1 kN - Steel Lilbro 22.8 kN - Flexy Lady (size green) 19.2 kN - The Zibenator 13.2 kN - Nutter absolute value on the difference from guess to actual: 22.3 11.53 0.41 10.88 4.81 1.12 0.7 7.14 5.63 9.42 For a grand total of 73.94 kN off!!!! I'm guessing whoever guessed all 0's probably beat me (even though thats a totally lame bet ) Closest I got to guessing correctly was on the Green 2cam at .41kN off. Ironically this is also the one I voted as the prettiest. Edit to add all 0's didn't beat me afterall. Suck it!! Edit again because no one bet all 0's, just all 1's
(This post was edited by fxgranite on Mar 19, 2009, 8:04 PM)
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tallnik
Mar 19, 2009, 7:36 PM
Post #67 of 70
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Registered: Apr 18, 2004
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cracklover wrote: Kenn's new cam: [image]http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=3406[/image] Looks nice! Cheers! GO That's awesome looking. I have perhaps a dumb question: I understand the concept of over-engineering safety equipment, however, the obsession with stronger cams is puzzling to me. Fall forces higher than 9kn are almost never encountered (unless I'm wrong) and if they are, you've snapped your back. So, anything engineered to withstand 12kn of force on it should suffice, correct? Or is it due to metal fatigue (or some other factor) over time from use that leads to climbers wanting even stronger equipment? A friend of mine, and regular climbing partner, attended a clinic in which they pull-tested to failure a bunch of used biners. They were of differing ages, but most of the 5+ year old biners were breaking at around 14kn, although originally rated to 22kn. Perhaps we over-engineer cams to such a large degree for similar reasons. Any comments, info, etc would be appreciated. Nik
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rschap
Mar 20, 2009, 1:44 AM
Post #68 of 70
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Registered: Sep 30, 2005
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Well it looks like Fxgranite wins this one being he was the closest for three of his guesses. Though Cosmicharlie got the best guess being only .07 off on his guess for the Zibenator. Fxgranite pm me with your address and I’ll ship you the camhook, remember I make no guaranties it will be anything better then a paper weight. But if you do end up using it let me know what you think. You’ll have to give me a couple of days to make it and all though.
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rschap
Mar 20, 2009, 1:56 AM
Post #69 of 70
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tallnik wrote: I have perhaps a dumb question: I understand the concept of over-engineering safety equipment, however, the obsession with stronger cams is puzzling to me. Fall forces higher than 9kn are almost never encountered (unless I'm wrong) and if they are, you've snapped your back. So, anything engineered to withstand 12kn of force on it should suffice, correct? Or is it due to metal fatigue (or some other factor) over time from use that leads to climbers wanting even stronger equipment? A friend of mine, and regular climbing partner, attended a clinic in which they pull-tested to failure a bunch of used biners. They were of differing ages, but most of the 5+ year old biners were breaking at around 14kn, although originally rated to 22kn. Perhaps we over-engineer cams to such a large degree for similar reasons. Any comments, info, etc would be appreciated. Nik Yeah you’re kind of right. Too much force will brake your back but there are things such as rope stretch and direction of pull that can put more force on the piece and not so much on you. The other example I can think of is in the case of a bad decking on a ledge potential or a long run out I’ve seen belayers jump (down that is) to take up slack faster creating more force on the piece (I’ve only seen this in sport but I’ve heard guys talk about it on trad). But I think overkill is the true answer.
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fxgranite
Mar 20, 2009, 6:25 AM
Post #70 of 70
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rschap wrote: Well it looks like Fxgranite wins this one being he was the closest for three of his guesses. Though Cosmicharlie got the best guess being only .07 off on his guess for the Zibenator. Fxgranite pm me with your address and I’ll ship you the camhook, remember I make no guaranties it will be anything better then a paper weight. But if you do end up using it let me know what you think. You’ll have to give me a couple of days to make it and all though. ooo I never win anything. What an honor. Don't worry, I'll test it out for you (maybe as a paperweight tho) pm sent
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