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Sin


Mar 21, 2009, 9:31 PM
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Cams on Aiders
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I was talking to a buddy of mine about aid technique, and as we were feeling all warm and fuzzy about all the gear and effort that goes into aid, he mentioned a technique I haven't heard before. It goes something like this: You put different sized cams on the biner that you use for your aider/etriers, you alternate walking the pieces up, and leave a piece in every 10-15 pieces for pro. What is this style called and what are the pros and cons? Aid gods I seek your wisdom..........


coastal_climber


Mar 22, 2009, 9:26 AM
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Re: [Sin] Cams on Aiders [In reply to]
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I've seen that mentioned in a book somewhere. It speeds up the process, since you don't have to keep reaching to your harness for pieces. Obviously this technique would work best for cracks that are uniform for most of their length...

Leap-frogging is the term that is coming to mind, could be wrong though. Essentially you are back cleaning pieces far enough apart, but you are still comfortable with the fall distance.

I'd be careful doing this if you are new to aiding, keep in mind what the consequences of the piece below you blowing is.


petsfed


Mar 22, 2009, 10:08 AM
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Re: [Sin] Cams on Aiders [In reply to]
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Its called crack jumaring, and you only do it on very continuous cracks on good rock. If there's a possibility that the placement you're using could blow out on you, you should protect the crack a bit more. Basically, you weigh the odds of falling against the consequences of a potential fall, and if the former outweighs the latter, you should toss in a piece for protection.

Obviously the two are in completely different terms, so its completely a judgment call.


(This post was edited by petsfed on Mar 22, 2009, 10:09 AM)


brokenankle


Mar 22, 2009, 11:42 AM
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Re: [petsfed] Cams on Aiders [In reply to]
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Like the others have said, this method is fast, but potentially dangerous.

http://www.climbing.com/...t/techtips/ttaid219/


(This post was edited by brokenankle on Mar 22, 2009, 11:42 AM)


rschap


Mar 22, 2009, 3:58 PM
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Iíve done it with camhooks (Only once though), I put one of each size camhook on each ladder and go to town. A friend of mine said it was called J-Hooking but I donít know. Itís no more dangerous then leading free I guess.


Sin


Mar 22, 2009, 4:58 PM
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brokenankle wrote:
Like the others have said, this method is fast, but potentially dangerous.

http://www.climbing.com/...t/techtips/ttaid219/

Bammm! That's what I was looking for. Thanks bro! Now the question is, how different is this method (while leaving a piece for pro every 10-15, on solid finger to fist cracks), from leading trad? Is it really much more dangerous than say, multi-pitch trad?


Partner mr8615


Mar 22, 2009, 5:15 PM
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Re: [Sin] Cams on Aiders [In reply to]
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Sin wrote:
Bammm! That's what I was looking for. Thanks bro! Now the question is, how different is this method (while leaving a piece for pro every 10-15, on solid finger to fist cracks), from leading trad? Is it really much more dangerous than say, multi-pitch trad?

It's probably much less dangerous than free climbing on a solid finger to fist crack, but why aid something like that?


coastal_climber


Mar 22, 2009, 5:30 PM
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Re: [Sin] Cams on Aiders [In reply to]
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Sin wrote:
brokenankle wrote:
Like the others have said, this method is fast, but potentially dangerous.

http://www.climbing.com/...t/techtips/ttaid219/

Bammm! That's what I was looking for. Thanks bro! Now the question is, how different is this method (while leaving a piece for pro every 10-15, on solid finger to fist cracks), from leading trad? Is it really much more dangerous than say, multi-pitch trad?

It depends on the climber. Remember to protect yourself from ground-falls, ledge hits, swinging into corners, etc...

If you are really interested in speeding things up, you will be adding to the risk factor. I'm comparing this to the average piece every 4 ft.


Sin


Mar 22, 2009, 6:21 PM
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Good point! I guess it's about compromising saftey for speed. Thanks for the replies guys.


(This post was edited by Sin on Mar 22, 2009, 6:22 PM)


joeforte


Mar 22, 2009, 6:36 PM
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Link cams work really good for the cams that stay on the aiders. Less cluster f-k. Use your other cams for pro.


hafilax


Mar 22, 2009, 8:54 PM
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Re: [joeforte] Cams on Aiders [In reply to]
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I've heard of people doing it with cam hooks as well depending on the crack size.


patmay81


Mar 22, 2009, 9:07 PM
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Re: [hafilax] Cams on Aiders [In reply to]
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yes, cam hooks work great for this, although its gotta be a fairly even crack width. I like the idea of using link cams, it seems like it would give you a lot better range in crack placments.


Partner pbcowboy77


Mar 23, 2009, 10:26 AM
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Re: [joeforte] Cams on Aiders [In reply to]
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joeforte wrote:
Link cams work really good for the cams that stay on the aiders. Less cluster f-k. Use your other cams for pro.


Yep, Link Cams are great for crack jugging! On some routes I always have a link cam, a cam hook and a taped open carabiner on each aider the whole route.


TonySF


Apr 9, 2009, 4:44 PM
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Re: [Sin] Cams on Aiders [In reply to]
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I've been using a modified version of the "Yosemite Speed Weapon" (see link below), and it had greatly increased my aiding speed on C1. I've generally aim to leave a piece for pro every 3 or 4 placements, assuming I'm top-stepping.

I've also been experimenting with more pure "french-freeing" by leaving the aiders aside for clean C1 finger/hand crack pitches, and that has at times increased my speed even more.

http://www.climbing.com/print/techtips/ttaid219/


graniteboy


Apr 10, 2009, 4:22 PM
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Re: [Sin] Cams on Aiders [In reply to]
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Crack Jumaring: Fast, good way to go sometimes.

However, as a reality check....I remember we had either a fatality or near fatality up on the nose a couple years back due to someone thinking it was OK to just leapfrog along and leave a piece of pro every 50 feet or so. He took a nice big fall, pulled one of his pro pieces, went big, >150 footer and whacked into eagle ledge....broke the guy all to hell... Helo rescue ensued. Yeah, if I remember, the guy lived....I think.


marc801


Apr 10, 2009, 5:03 PM
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graniteboy wrote:
Crack Jumaring: Fast, good way to go sometimes.

However, as a reality check....I remember we had either a fatality or near fatality up on the nose a couple years back due to someone thinking it was OK to just leapfrog along and leave a piece of pro every 50 feet or so. He took a nice big fall, pulled one of his pro pieces, went big, >150 footer and whacked into eagle ledge....broke the guy all to hell... Helo rescue ensued. Yeah, if I remember, the guy lived....I think.

Two years ago this May. Account at Friends of YOSAR: http://www.friendsofyosar.org/...ns/5-17-07_Nose.html


(This post was edited by marc801 on Apr 10, 2009, 5:04 PM)


graniteboy


Apr 11, 2009, 2:58 PM
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Thanks. It was written up in the 2008 (=coverage of 2007 accidents) AAJ Accidents in North American Mountaineering, too.

So leapfrog away...but be sure you're standing on bombproof placements and that you have adequate pro below....


yetanotherdave


Apr 11, 2009, 6:08 PM
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That was the week before we did the nose - I had to lead thru the pool of dried blood.

Climb safe everyone - I don't want that experience again.


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