Don't you have to drill a hole to use a removable bolt anyway. Might as well put in a new rivet- if the old ones blow out.

Peace,

Pete

I will now display my ignorance.

I've never placed a rivet. I've never even held one in my hand. Isn't it basically a 1/4" bolt without a hanger? So if I was to replace a pulled or busted rivet, why not put a bomber 3/8" or larger bolt in? I suppose it would be less exciting for the next guy, but are blown rivets/hangers really the kind of excitement we're after? Why not replace a rivet with a bolt?

A rivet can be anything from a 1/3 putton head to a stub 5/16" machine bolt "encouraged" into a 1/4 hole. They can be surprisingly strong, or ticking time bombs, either way they will require some for or rivet hanger to get by past them be it a swadged rivet hanger, a stopper slid down the wire, or a dubloon (or whatever fish was calling them... at least I think it was fish. Maybe I should jsut crack another beer.



Anywho, back to the point, DO NOT CHANGE THE CHARACTER OF A CLIMB. PERIOD.

Bolt for Bolt, Pin for Pin, Rivet for Rivet.

isn't that just contrived risk? that's like saying we should use hexes instead of cams because that's how the route went originally.... no? enjoy your aid

Well is the hex actually a better placement? Sometimes that IS the case, and sometime the mytical "cams are ALWAYS better than hexes" leaves climbers exposed to more risk than they could be, by trusting sub par gear placements. Some times the cam is better, and sometimes it would have been better to save that damn cam for higher up on the climb when placing that hex just isn't an option.

Look, new technology and gear has been a driving force in the evolution of ethics for climbing from the onset. Look at what both the passive and 'clean' active gear revolutions has done for climbing... yes "clean" active, pins are still active gear.

Not all climbs are ment to be repeated, and not all climbs are ment to be climbs that the average climber can jump on. This is nothing new, it's always been that way, as it should.

Climbing will never be a safe activity, nor should it. There are risks and any of us could die on any climb. And I do mean on any climb, be it a 5.4 or a Canadian Rockies 5.9 A2 (generic really hard, totally sandbagged, basically make your balls invert Canadian grade, and yes... even Chuck Norris would cry).

Rivets are acceptable. In fact they are also much more practical, and realistic that bolts in many situations. That said, nothing is forever, gear is subject to the same forces of nature as anything else. I've clipped some scary bolts that I would much rather had been old rivets... some of those bolts were basically new BTW.

IF a climb is put up in a given style who are any of us to lower that piece of rock to our level by corrupting the style it was first climbed in? Just to put a "feather in our cap"? Seriously, not every climb was ment to be climbed by every climber. It's not a equality issue, nore is it a safety issue.

I have added newer bolts to routes, but I have always made the effort to speak with those who did the FA first, and get their blessing. It IS a matter of RESPECT.

If a climber does not agree with another climbers route, your statement will be much more bold by establishing a route of equal character than by verbal or written dissaprovel of "your route is unsafe for other climbers".

An argument of using hexes instead of cams "because it was first done with x 40 years ago, and not y gear which only came out 30 years ago" is akin to bolting a crack just so "every climber can safely experience that route".

Edit to add: No, it isn't "just contrived risk", and if you don't get it than I can't help you.

hey if your buying...so on new ground why a rivet vs a bolt? besides speed and spice