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kyleshea


Dec 18, 2008, 9:29 PM
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pro_alien wrote:
Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
Despite all off the well intentioned advice here there is only one proven way to get rid of some of your gut. Surgery.

Your small/large intestines don't change size no matter how much you exercise. Only a surgeon can cut some out.

For the slightly less desperate, may I suggest an enema ?

this website needs an enema!


Grizvok


Dec 20, 2008, 8:00 AM
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aerili wrote:
Hi bbowers,
I trained various kinds of people for a number of years. I preferred to train athletes for sport reasons, but I also worked with lots of people who needed to lose weight as well as gain weight over this time. (I should mention I have appropriate credentials in this area as well that include a college degree.) Weight management and obesity issues are complex; even I don't understand everything.

That said, here is some general advice:

1. Android obesity (beer gut) is the most responsive fat storage to exercise, much more responsive than gynoid obesity (hips and thighs). Hopefully this encourages you.

2. Strenuous exercise that incorporates both aerobic and resistance training should elicit you the greatest gains if done properly and then maintained (typically less effortful) for the long haul.

3. By resistance training, I do not mean just bicep curls, abs, and bench chess or push ups.

4. The more variety you have in your aerobic exercise, the better. And really. When it comes down to it, who gives a fuck about swimming and your core or running and your core. The most important thing is to do the exercise you are most likely to do at all. Ultimately, though, you will need some variety in this area to overcome plateaus.

5. Do your aerobic exercise in HIT format if you can muster the intrinsic motivation. A number of studies are finding that High Intensity Training intervals appear to be more effective at burning fat than the typical Slow Moderate Pace to Nowhere that most people engage in. This is believed to be due to it causing elevated post-exercise oxygen consumption, but I won't get into that.

5a. High intensity intervals usually requires short bouts of pushing hard on your chosen activity. The duration of sprints is dependent on an individual athlete and what their aerobic requirements may be. I do anywhere from 30 sec-2 min usually. That is, my interval ends when I literally cannot push any longer at that pace at that time. I will warn you: the majority of people do not have the mental discipline or motivation to truly train HI intervals.

6. Although resting metabolic rate is only correlated at less than 20% dependent on skeletal muscle, clearly we know exercise, esp. strenuous exercise, has a profound effect on it anyway. Aerobic exercise alone typically has a correlation with a loss of muscle mass. This is bad. That is why I tell people to strength train. Not to mention I have personally witnessed far better results in my clients when they employ whole body strength training.

7. Which leads to my next point. Climber dudes who need to lose weight tend to try to go about it by only exercising half their body (the upper half). But you do need to preserve lean mass in your lower body, and as research shows, aerobic exercise doesn't do this. So strengthen your lower body; after all, it has the largest muscles in your body and can burn a whole lotta calories. Trust me, you can do this without getting huge legs which will weigh you down in climbing. Oh, and your knees will thank you for it eventually.

7. Yes, you MUST watch what you eat. BUT overly restrictive "dieting" can have very negative effects on your resting metabolic rate (i.e. it will decline), effects which studies show not even cardio or weight training will be able to reverse back up.

8. Do not deny yourself things completely. I have never told a client they cannot have this or that. Just areas where they need to cut back and/or employ other strategies. If you pig out one day, make sure you rein in the following two days to make up for it or do some extra exercise to help get into a calorie deficit. Also, avoid drinking your calories!

9. Accept that your problem areas will always be your problem areas, no matter how perfect your body eventually becomes on my advice. This is true for every person on earth. The battle will be eternal, and it will always be in the same place(s).

10. Lastly, most of rtwilli4's post was completely useless and/or nonsense. Please avoid reading it if you haven't already.

Sorry this was so long. This kind of stuff can't fit into a three-sentence post. Hope it helps a little!

I understand that fat stored in the gut is much more responsive to exercise and dieting but does that mean it is impossible to lose the pounds of fat located in my hips/quad area? I have almost no fat left in my stomach area and definitely no fat left in my upper body. The bulk of the fat (which isn't much since I'm 6'2'' and 170) is located in that exact area of the thighs/hips/quads/hamstring area.

Anything in particular to do? I'd assume eating stuff that helps lower estrogen levels would help significantly but I'm not sure.


Partner angry


Dec 20, 2008, 10:03 AM
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scotchie wrote:
Sounds like it would work, but then I got hungry, so I had a cheeseburger and some fries while I was thinking about it. And beer. And ice cream. And candy.

So, um, back to the topic. Does anyone have any idea how I could lose my gut and get a rock-hard sixpack?

Have you ever seen a fat heroin addict? I haven't.

It's pretty expensive but I think it's somewhere near a 100% success rate.


kyleshea


Dec 20, 2008, 6:01 PM
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angry wrote:
scotchie wrote:
Sounds like it would work, but then I got hungry, so I had a cheeseburger and some fries while I was thinking about it. And beer. And ice cream. And candy.

So, um, back to the topic. Does anyone have any idea how I could lose my gut and get a rock-hard sixpack?

Have you ever seen a fat heroin addict? I haven't.

It's pretty expensive but I think it's somewhere near a 100% success rate.

i think meth is cheaper. plus your endurance would be amazing.


aerili


Dec 22, 2008, 4:25 AM
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Re: [Grizvok] How to get rid of this gut [In reply to]
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Grizvok wrote:
I understand that fat stored in the gut is much more responsive to exercise and dieting but does that mean it is impossible to lose the pounds of fat located in my hips/quad area? I have almost no fat left in my stomach area and definitely no fat left in my upper body. The bulk of the fat (which isn't much since I'm 6'2'' and 170) is located in that exact area of the thighs/hips/quads/hamstring area.

Anything in particular to do? I'd assume eating stuff that helps lower estrogen levels would help significantly but I'm not sure.

I am quite unfamiliar with any theory about foods high or low in estrogen promoting gynoid fat storage in men. My guess is that this would only happen if you literally took female hormones in large quantities (a la sex change) or have very low testosterone, but it seems a remote possibility otherwise, regardless of how much phytoestrogens one eats.

It's not that fat in your hips and legs is completely resistant to exercise, it's just that it tends to be less so when compared to fat stored in the trunk, but I believe this is mostly studied and evident in women (and therefore the behavior of the fat stores would be under the influence of female hormones). So, I am not sure exactly how peripheral fat stores behave in men vs fat stores in their middle.

Tell me your waist to hip ratio: this would be the measurement of the narrowest part of your waist (measured after breathing out normally) divided by the measurement of the widest part of your hips--all measured IN CENTIMETERS. The divided number should be a number less than 1.0. Also I would need to know your age. If you like, you can pm me this info.

Also, just so you know, gynoid fat distribution in men can and does occur and isn't necessarily a symptom of some hormone issue. However, if you really think there could be some problem for you, I would recommend asking your primary care or an endocrinologist to test your overall hormone levels.

Otherwise, even though fat below the waist may be harder to lose generally speaking than above the waist, the recommendations for it are the same as for android obesity. I really have never trained men or women differently because there isn't a reason to.


(This post was edited by aerili on Dec 22, 2008, 4:27 AM)


sungam


Dec 22, 2008, 5:02 PM
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armsrforclimbing wrote:
Get on the P90X train!!!!!
That right there is some funny shit.


kirksullivan


Dec 23, 2008, 4:54 PM
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Re: [shockabuku] How to get rid of this gut [In reply to]
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shockabuku wrote:
Yeah, I love to eat too, that 's why I have about an extra 10-15 on me most times.

Running is the best result for the time input but I don't do much of it either for the same reasons you don't.

I'd suggest biking as a good alternative, or swimming. Biking is quite a time investment however, as it seems to take about twice as much time or more of biking to get the same result as running. Usually for the biking to be a very good weight management tool for me involves somewhere around 30 miles or more at a shot (which I don't have time for these days) with some considerable hill training. I don't know about simming because I just don't do it, but it is a good whole body exercise. I tried rowing for a while, but it's pretty boring and I'd just as soon rest my hands when I'm not climbing.

I would agree, the best way your going to cut that belly is cardio work out tied in with a core workout. Given your Knee, investing in a road bike seems the best alternative. Doesn't have to be a 8 thousand dollar bike either, you can pick up good bike for under 800 dollars these days.

Maybe cutting back on carbs could help out also.

good luck


troutboy


Dec 23, 2008, 5:35 PM
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Re: [Hennessey] How to get rid of this gut [In reply to]
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Hennessey wrote:
Ahhhh pizza, cheesesteaks and beer. The diet of a true Philadelphian

You forgot the soft pretzels Cool

TS


pr0x1mo


Jan 4, 2009, 9:13 PM
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I say that you should eat more than 3 meals a day. Make sure the Glycemic Load/Index is low for the carbs you eat. Eat lean proteins, steaks, chicken breast, turkey breast, lean ground beef etc... Eat more greens as opposed to grains/starches. Drink more water, and you might wanna take Yohimbine HCL to help balance the ratio of of Alpha-Beta adrenoreceptors in your body. That is the main cause of the disequilibrium of fat distribution in your body.


the_leech


Jan 4, 2009, 9:57 PM
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pr0x1mo wrote:
you might wanna take Yohimbine HCL to help balance the ratio of of Alpha-Beta adrenoreceptors in your body. That is the main cause of the disequilibrium of fat distribution in your body.

That's funny.

I always thought it was eating too much and not exercising enough that gave me a gut.

I'll start working on my adrenoreceptors right away.


pr0x1mo


Jan 5, 2009, 7:18 PM
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Are you being sarcastic or are you bein genuine? Cuz if you're serious i can post stuff of Beta1 vs Alpha 2 adrenoreceptors.

Basically the balance between the 2 will determine where you have a propensity to develop those "stubborn" fat pockets that are always harder to get rid of. In women, they generally have more A2's in their hips and ass, in guys its in the abdominals and love handles.

Then you see strange areas for girls who are super skinny everywhere then they have fat hanging off their triceps like a roosters neck. Or some guys that only gain weight primarily on their legs.

Generally everyone gets fat from eating bad, depending on where you have more A2's vs B1's will determine where most of your fat develops and stays.

Its the reason why you can work out til doomsday, be super ripped all around but have that pudge under your belly button and muffin top hangin out where your love handles are.


spikeddem


Jan 6, 2009, 2:30 AM
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pr0x1mo wrote:
Are you being sarcastic or are you bein genuine? Cuz if you're serious i can post stuff of Beta1 vs Alpha 2 adrenoreceptors.

Basically the balance between the 2 will determine where you have a propensity to develop those "stubborn" fat pockets that are always harder to get rid of. In women, they generally have more A2's in their hips and ass, in guys its in the abdominals and love handles.

Then you see strange areas for girls who are super skinny everywhere then they have fat hanging off their triceps like a roosters neck. Or some guys that only gain weight primarily on their legs.

Generally everyone gets fat from eating bad, depending on where you have more A2's vs B1's will determine where most of your fat develops and stays.

Its the reason why you can work out til doomsday, be super ripped all around but have that pudge under your belly button and muffin top hangin out where your love handles are.

He's BACK!


suilenroc


Jan 6, 2009, 8:34 PM
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please watch

I highly recommend checking out their other videos...
http://www.youtube.com/...feature=channel_page


kyleshea


Jan 6, 2009, 8:49 PM
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pr0x1mo wrote:
Are you being sarcastic or are you bein genuine? Cuz if you're serious i can post stuff of Beta1 vs Alpha 2 adrenoreceptors.

Basically the balance between the 2 will determine where you have a propensity to develop those "stubborn" fat pockets that are always harder to get rid of. In women, they generally have more A2's in their hips and ass, in guys its in the abdominals and love handles.

Then you see strange areas for girls who are super skinny everywhere then they have fat hanging off their triceps like a roosters neck. Or some guys that only gain weight primarily on their legs.

Generally everyone gets fat from eating bad, depending on where you have more A2's vs B1's will determine where most of your fat develops and stays.

Its the reason why you can work out til doomsday, be super ripped all around but have that pudge under your belly button and muffin top hangin out where your love handles are.

do you really see no difference between trying to lose a "gut" and some fat on a tricep or "pudge" under a belly button?


the_leech


Jan 7, 2009, 4:44 AM
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pr0x1mo wrote:
Are you being sarcastic or are you bein genuine? Cuz if you're serious i can post stuff of Beta1 vs Alpha 2 adrenoreceptors.

Basically the balance between the 2 will determine where you have a propensity to develop those "stubborn" fat pockets that are always harder to get rid of. In women, they generally have more A2's in their hips and ass, in guys its in the abdominals and love handles.

Then you see strange areas for girls who are super skinny everywhere then they have fat hanging off their triceps like a roosters neck. Or some guys that only gain weight primarily on their legs.

Generally everyone gets fat from eating bad, depending on where you have more A2's vs B1's will determine where most of your fat develops and stays.

Its the reason why you can work out til doomsday, be super ripped all around but have that pudge under your belly button and muffin top hangin out where your love handles are.

I just balanced my adrenoreceptors and finally got rid of that stubborn pudge on my scrotum.

Now I'm ripped everywhere!

Thanks!


petsfed


Jan 7, 2009, 6:21 PM
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the_leech wrote:
I just balanced my adrenoreceptors and finally got rid of that stubborn pudge on my scrotum.

Now I'm ripped everywhere!

Thanks!

I kinda wanna say "pics or it didn't happen", but I also really really don't.


EvilMonkey


Jan 7, 2009, 7:47 PM
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screw it. keep the gut! people are always impressed as sh!t to see a fat guy redpoint 5.12.


pr0x1mo


Jan 10, 2009, 7:22 PM
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Some of you already know that you cannot spot train, i.e. you cannot work out one part of your body to remove fat specifically from that area. When you exercise, your body burns the fat all around. But when you get fat, your body will be more prone to inflate specific areas of your body.

This is why:

Some people have an alarming discrepancy between their upper and lower body fat, as if they had 2 different bodies glued together at the waist. When you get down to trying to get rid of the last stubborn fat, muscle wasting accelerates, especially in the face. You may be discouraged, quit your diet, and go on a rampage of binge eating which would put all the fat back on. The fat from binging, as explained above, will go back where you don’t want it to go: hips, thighs, buttocks, love handles, stomach.

Your doctor will say “genetics” or a “female thing”.

Lower body fat does not just have more fat cells. It responds differently to weight loss because its response to certain hormones differs markedly from most of the other fat on the body. These crazy fat cells are not only the last to reduce, but just as importantly, they can cause further metabolic slowdown and catabolic action in areas far away from your butt or stomach.

We’ve all heard the story of “Mother lifts car to free trapped infant”, the rush you get from jumping out of a plane, or the feeling you receive after a near-miss car accident. All these events have something in common: Adrenaline. Think of it as an octane booster to the body whenever you encounter BIG stress.

Adrenaline is a hormone, naturally produced chemical messenger that imparts instructions to various cells in the body. Adrenaline is produced by the two adrenal glands located over each kidney. Noradrenaline which is slightly different is generated at the nerve endings.

Why are there 2 sources for this hormone? Because noradrenaline can only be generated in the nerves of certain cells. Cells that don’t get much blood circulation (like fat cells, for example) aren’t candidates for adrenaline, which is circulated systemically.

Hormone receptors on cells are like assigned parking spaces, tailored in size and shape to each type of hormone.

Receptors for both adrenaline and noradrenaline are called adrenoreceptors. Adrenoreceptors are almost everywhere: in the blood, organs, the muscles, and the fat cells.

There are 4 types of these receptors, and each one communicates a different message to the cell. Sometimes fat cells get completely different messages from its receptor sites. Lower body fat has very screwy adrenoreceptors. These are the 4:

Alpha-1 (A1)
Alpha-2 (A2) Bad
Beta-1 (B1)
Beta-2 (B2)

Fat cells have both B1 and A2 receptors. Fat cells don’t get much blood circulation, so it is noradrenaline that attaches to these receptors.

B1 receptors send good messages. They activate lipase, the enzyme that breaks down fat. Lipase causes the fat cell to disassemble itself, breaking down stored triglycerides into fatty acids and glycerol, which are used for energy throughout the body. B1’s are the good guys, and it is noradrenaline that lights them up. Regular adrenaline would do the same thing if it could reach the receptor. However, fat doesn’t have any major arteries or veins, only capillaries.

Let me reiterate, A2’s are the bad guys. They block lipase in the fat cell. Worse, A2s also encourage the formation of triglycerides in the cell. A2’s also decrease the generation of noradrenaline at the nerve sites. Less noradrenaline means that the good B1’s don’t light up as brightly. Lower body fat doesn’t have many B1’s anyway. The picture is grim: fat cell disassembly is blocked, more fat is stored, and body temperature is slightly reduced. Low calorie diets cause an increase in the number of the A2 receptors.

1. Fat is lost first and fastest at the cells with lots of B1 receptors.
2. Very little fat is lost in the fat cells that have lots of A2 receptors.
3. Eventually, your noradrenaline levels drop, reducing your body temperature.
4. The number of A2 receptors increases. The last of the fat becomes so hard to mobilize that the body will have to use more amino acids (from muscle) for fuel.
5. When you finally give up on the diet, even so-called normal eating will cause new fat accumulation right in the fat cells that have just increased their number of A2 receptors.


Toast_in_the_Machine


Jan 14, 2009, 7:53 PM
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Ok OP (or others)

So lost any weight based on the helpful advice given here? It has been close to two months and wondered.

Or is this site all just some phenomenal conspiracy to keep us from learning "the truth"?


kyleshea


Jan 14, 2009, 8:10 PM
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pr0x1mo wrote:
Some of you already know that you cannot spot train, i.e. you cannot work out one part of your body to remove fat specifically from that area. When you exercise, your body burns the fat all around. But when you get fat, your body will be more prone to inflate specific areas of your body.

This is why:

Some people have an alarming discrepancy between their upper and lower body fat, as if they had 2 different bodies glued together at the waist. When you get down to trying to get rid of the last stubborn fat, muscle wasting accelerates, especially in the face. You may be discouraged, quit your diet, and go on a rampage of binge eating which would put all the fat back on. The fat from binging, as explained above, will go back where you don’t want it to go: hips, thighs, buttocks, love handles, stomach.

Your doctor will say “genetics” or a “female thing”.

Lower body fat does not just have more fat cells. It responds differently to weight loss because its response to certain hormones differs markedly from most of the other fat on the body. These crazy fat cells are not only the last to reduce, but just as importantly, they can cause further metabolic slowdown and catabolic action in areas far away from your butt or stomach.

We’ve all heard the story of “Mother lifts car to free trapped infant”, the rush you get from jumping out of a plane, or the feeling you receive after a near-miss car accident. All these events have something in common: Adrenaline. Think of it as an octane booster to the body whenever you encounter BIG stress.

Adrenaline is a hormone, naturally produced chemical messenger that imparts instructions to various cells in the body. Adrenaline is produced by the two adrenal glands located over each kidney. Noradrenaline which is slightly different is generated at the nerve endings.

Why are there 2 sources for this hormone? Because noradrenaline can only be generated in the nerves of certain cells. Cells that don’t get much blood circulation (like fat cells, for example) aren’t candidates for adrenaline, which is circulated systemically.

Hormone receptors on cells are like assigned parking spaces, tailored in size and shape to each type of hormone.

Receptors for both adrenaline and noradrenaline are called adrenoreceptors. Adrenoreceptors are almost everywhere: in the blood, organs, the muscles, and the fat cells.

There are 4 types of these receptors, and each one communicates a different message to the cell. Sometimes fat cells get completely different messages from its receptor sites. Lower body fat has very screwy adrenoreceptors. These are the 4:

Alpha-1 (A1)
Alpha-2 (A2) Bad
Beta-1 (B1)
Beta-2 (B2)

Fat cells have both B1 and A2 receptors. Fat cells don’t get much blood circulation, so it is noradrenaline that attaches to these receptors.

B1 receptors send good messages. They activate lipase, the enzyme that breaks down fat. Lipase causes the fat cell to disassemble itself, breaking down stored triglycerides into fatty acids and glycerol, which are used for energy throughout the body. B1’s are the good guys, and it is noradrenaline that lights them up. Regular adrenaline would do the same thing if it could reach the receptor. However, fat doesn’t have any major arteries or veins, only capillaries.

Let me reiterate, A2’s are the bad guys. They block lipase in the fat cell. Worse, A2s also encourage the formation of triglycerides in the cell. A2’s also decrease the generation of noradrenaline at the nerve sites. Less noradrenaline means that the good B1’s don’t light up as brightly. Lower body fat doesn’t have many B1’s anyway. The picture is grim: fat cell disassembly is blocked, more fat is stored, and body temperature is slightly reduced. Low calorie diets cause an increase in the number of the A2 receptors.

1. Fat is lost first and fastest at the cells with lots of B1 receptors.
2. Very little fat is lost in the fat cells that have lots of A2 receptors.
3. Eventually, your noradrenaline levels drop, reducing your body temperature.
4. The number of A2 receptors increases. The last of the fat becomes so hard to mobilize that the body will have to use more amino acids (from muscle) for fuel.
5. When you finally give up on the diet, even so-called normal eating will cause new fat accumulation right in the fat cells that have just increased their number of A2 receptors.

so how do i reaasign my special parking spaces? are the handicapped ones clearly marked?


whoa


Jan 14, 2009, 10:36 PM
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Tell me your waist to hip ratio: this would be the measurement of the narrowest part of your waist (measured after breathing out normally) divided by the measurement of the widest part of your hips--all measured IN CENTIMETERS. The divided number should be a number less than 1.0. Also I would need to know your age. If you like, you can pm me this info.

I know an easy way of converting inches-divided-by-inches to centimeters-divided-by-centimeters. Also, I have a cool way of telling if a divided number is going to be less than 1.0 without even dividing them!

Also, I've done considerable research on this issue over the years watching cartoons, and basically you want a vibrating abdominal belt machine and a steam box with your head poking out.


headchop


Jan 18, 2009, 3:13 PM
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Re: [pr0x1mo] How to get rid of this gut [In reply to]
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pr0x1mo wrote:
...and you might wanna take Yohimbine HCL to help balance the ratio of of Alpha-Beta adrenoreceptors in your body.
Isn't Yohimbe/Yohimbine a banned substance in a number of countries (Canada, Australia, Ireland, NZ, Germany, Norway, Finland, ...)?


sungam


Jan 18, 2009, 7:52 PM
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Re: [headchop] How to get rid of this gut [In reply to]
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headchop wrote:
pr0x1mo wrote:
...and you might wanna take Yohimbine HCL to help balance the ratio of of Alpha-Beta adrenoreceptors in your body.
Isn't Yohimbe/Yohimbine a banned substance in a number of countries (Canada, Australia, Ireland, NZ, Germany, Norway, Finland, ...)?
Due to some uncertain circumstances, someone I know very well found themselves with too much yohimbe in their system. 6 hours of uncontrolled twitching, projectile vomiting, and blood pressure so high it burst the blood vessels in their eye making them go completely red followed. They felt like shit for days, and swore to god that towards the end (yohimbe causes hypertension) they could feel their heart getting ever so slightly tired.
That shit is wicked evil, watch out. It has it's uses, though.


bbowers


Mar 30, 2009, 3:57 AM
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Re: [Toast_in_the_Machine] How to get rid of this gut [In reply to]
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Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
Ok OP (or others)

So lost any weight based on the helpful advice given here? It has been close to two months and wondered.

Or is this site all just some phenomenal conspiracy to keep us from learning "the truth"?

Actually yeah, some improvement. I've reverted back to my old eating style, reducing my caloric intake and increasing my activity level. Let me restate the problem a little bit better... To climb harder I need to drop some weight, I feel that is what is holding me back. Just so happens most of my fat is on my stomach as opposed to elsewhere, so that's why the question came out as it did.

I'm climbing a lot harder, setting harder routes in the gym, etc. The food intake is the hardest part to control for me. Give me another week to get a good week long training schedule in place and I'll post back.

Thanks for all of the advice, everyone. (Yes I've even weighed the pro's and cons of a drug addiction too haha)

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