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irrational
Mar 29, 2009, 6:07 PM
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Just going to drop in my two cents into this one as i just had to do this less then a month ago to trap off a roof leak.
i would try to find something else for an anchor point like tree / deck leg / tow hitch etc .. and instead of using a prusik i would use a distel http://www.sherrilltree.com/...nots/DistelHitch.jpg works like a prusik but by squeezing it you break the knot much easer and can move around with it. And it works really well with a pulley underneath it so its very easy to self tend the slack. This is more of less the standard system that all arborists (tree climbers) use.
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epoch
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Mar 29, 2009, 6:19 PM
Post #27 of 47
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irrational wrote: Just going to drop in my two cents into this one as i just had to do this less then a month ago to trap off a roof leak. i would try to find something else for an anchor point like tree / deck leg / tow hitch etc .. and instead of using a prusik i would use a distel http://www.sherrilltree.com/...nots/DistelHitch.jpg works like a prusik but by squeezing it you break the knot much easer and can move around with it. And it works really well with a pulley underneath it so its very easy to self tend the slack. This is more of less the standard system that all arborists (tree climbers) use.
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barkandbite
Mar 29, 2009, 6:30 PM
Post #28 of 47
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Petzl has some experience with construction safety. check out http://www.petzl.com/en/pro/verticality/mobile-fall-arrest-device/mobile-fall-arrest-device-rope/asap
I agree that switching sides (of the roof) could be problematic. in this case I’d consider having separate devices for both sides so one can switch quickly and reduce worker error. Always stay clipped in as you transfer lines obviously.
Concrete counterweights could work ok. That is after all how some cranes are balanced. Be sure you have plenty of embedment force with the rebar hook and be sure there is an "L" shape bent into the ends of the rebar to resist pullout. Steel exercise weights with holes in them could work as well.
Probably a good idea to chat with the equipment supplier/ rep and get their input too.
Wear a brain bucket.
Work Safe,
B&B
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shockabuku
Mar 29, 2009, 7:25 PM
Post #29 of 47
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Is there a lost backpack and a waterfall or something involved here too?
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irrational
Mar 29, 2009, 8:32 PM
Post #30 of 47
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oh yes i forgot to put my disclaimer on that one... "take responsibility for your own actions"
oh and so by that logic gri-gri's are out too ... i guess its time to start foam padding all the sharp corners in the world too ...
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northfacejmb
Mar 29, 2009, 10:25 PM
Post #32 of 47
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The Silent Partner locks off in both directions..
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irregularpanda
Mar 30, 2009, 12:27 AM
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gmos wrote: What are your thoughts on one line going over a house and anchored by a static belay (in this case concrete with eye-hooks in 5 gal paint buckets) on each side? Then either a self retracting lanyard or rock climbing devices or a type of prusik knot on the mainline allowing moving out from the main line. This is something that would need easy setting up and taking down and often. Thanks. gmos
Here are my thoughts:
Avoid arguments with the females about lifting the toilet seat - use the sink.
If you have a bad cough, take a large dose of laxatives. Then you'll be afraid to cough.
and finally
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.
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gmos
Mar 30, 2009, 12:56 AM
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Looks like you,
the "irregularpanda",
specialize in scatalogical (look it up pal) humor.
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rangerrob
Mar 30, 2009, 1:09 AM
Post #35 of 47
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We did a 3 story, 45 degree roof last fall. Once we exposed the ridge header we screwed eyebolts into it about every 10 feet. Then we clove hitched the middle of the rope two two consecutive ones, with a little bit of slack between each. Each tail could then be flopped over to either side we were working on. We had two ropes, and four tails hanging down. Each rope was secured to 2 eyebolts in case of failure of one. We used jumars and daisy chains to attach ourselves to with back up tie ins to the harness. It was a pretty efficient system, but I make no claim as to it's safety.
Once it was time to put the ridge cap on we just started on one end and removed the eyebolts as we got to them. The last 6 or 7 feet was done off a ladder up against the side of the house.
RR
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epoch
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Mar 30, 2009, 1:11 AM
Post #36 of 47
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I was just going to pipe in and suggest scaffolding and ladders seem to work well too.
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iron106
Mar 30, 2009, 1:12 AM
Post #37 of 47
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If you do not know then you should hire someone who does. Or spend 1-20 years learning how.
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gmos
Mar 30, 2009, 2:14 AM
Post #38 of 47
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gdtbave suggested Alpine butterfly loops.
Would there be any problem with pre tied
Alpine butterfly loops?
And thanks for all the thoughtful responses
both to the problem as posed and the warnings
and advice.
The Gordian knot here seems to be finding
a locking mechanism, hardware or knot that
will work well in both directions when up becomes down and down becomes up. Does this leave
just the Prusik [or double Prusik] as suggested
by xtrmecat?
And good ideas from barkandbite on the portable
anchorage.
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bill413
Mar 30, 2009, 2:45 AM
Post #39 of 47
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I'm frightened by the thought that you seem to intend to rig this system without a basic understanding of which of these knots & devices work unidirectionally or bidirectionally.
If you are doing this under contract, or hiring folks to work for you, you probably need to abide by OSHA. If you are working on your own house, your own roof, you probably can do what you want. But, safety standards (while at times excessive) are there for a reason.
Using a prussik wrong can kill you. Using an ascender wrong can injure you. As a theoretical problem, there are several solutions...as a practical one, you should have practical experience before trying anything along these lines.
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irregularpanda
Mar 30, 2009, 7:09 AM
Post #40 of 47
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gmos wrote: Looks like you, the "irregularpanda", specialize in scatalogical (look it up pal) humor.
I can tell by your lack of human-humor that you are a moose.
I hereby diagnose you with chimpanzee-acne, and moose-pimples.
There is a small chance of complications including (but not limited to) pulmonary embolism, social awkwardness, and necrosis of your funny bone.
The only proper prescription for these conditions is either dulaudid, a full frontal lobotomy, or a visit to a woman. No, not a silly little girl, a real woman.
The prognosis if this dire condition is left untreated: You will lose all sense of humor for-ever, and ultimately a permanent state of goom-bah-ness. In layman's terms: get a sense of humor.
(this diagnosis was given while drunk-typing, please respond with an appropriate level of glee, stupor, and grandiosity)
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gmos
Mar 30, 2009, 2:28 PM
Post #41 of 47
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That was pathetic, irregularpanda.
You're embarrassing yourself.
Now let the adults talk, OK?
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gmos
Mar 30, 2009, 2:41 PM
Post #42 of 47
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bill413 -- Thanks for your concern. I had said early on that no others were involved so there is no ethical issue there and not a matter for OSHA or other agencies.
You wrote: "As a theoretical problem, there are several solutions ..." I would be interested in your thoughts along those lines.
I know many of you have been irritated or concerned by this thread and sincerely so, but I can tell you
that it has been helpful to me.
My thinking now is a series of pre tied Alpine butterfly loops starting a the edge of the roof and two lanyards. One always clipped into a loop.
Thanks
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shockabuku
Mar 30, 2009, 2:45 PM
Post #43 of 47
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No, irregularpanda is funny.
You're secretive and out of your element.
Quit being juvenile and just come out with what you want to use the thing for then maybe you can get some better feedback.
However, I think this is really just a majid-esque theoretical puzzle about getting people to realize that nobody can come up with a bidirectional grabbing device besides the prusik (and the silent partner).
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irregularpanda
Mar 30, 2009, 3:08 PM
Post #44 of 47
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shockabuku wrote: No, irregularpanda is funny. You're secretive and out of your element. Quit being juvenile and just come out with what you want to use the thing for then maybe you can get some better feedback. However, I think this is really just a majid-esque theoretical puzzle about getting people to realize that nobody can come up with a bidirectional grabbing device besides the prusik (and the silent partner).
I agree on all counts. Kudos.
Basically, tie alpine butterflies every 3-4 feet along your line (someone already said that) or get 2 shunts next to each other, and don't move at all....
For further consultations call 1-800 PeePee5-1doo-doo
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clymber
Mar 30, 2009, 4:39 PM
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what pitch is the roof that you will be working...what sort of work will you be doing on the roof....if you are redoing the entire roof why dont you use rof brackets and a 2x8...if you are worried about it beind so steep that you will slide donw then so will your shingles
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gmos
Mar 30, 2009, 5:24 PM
Post #46 of 47
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shockabuka -- If you think irregularpanda is
funny I'm OK with that. I don't and don't
understand his fascination with excrement,
but that's between you'll. I'm suggesting
that this website and certainly this thread
is not the appropriate place.
And I don't know what "majid-esque" means.
Please explain.
I had not realized the "theoretical puzzle"
aspect that you have so rightly pinpointed
until well into this thread, but it started
becoming clear to me as the comments
piled up.
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shockabuku
Mar 30, 2009, 5:36 PM
Post #47 of 47
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If you do a search on "users" for Majid sabet and read through his posts it will become clear. But to cut to the chase Majid is a user who likes to pose somewhat unclear problems related to climbing in order to bring out his own version of learning points during the discussion. Sometimes useful, sometimes not, generally always frustrating/amusing and vague.
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