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trad_daddy


Apr 10, 2009, 12:04 PM
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Zodiac beta.
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I'm going up zodiac this spring and was wondering if anyone has been up there this year. Any fixed gear? How feasible is it to do clean. If not what kind of Iron needs to be taken?


krusher4


Apr 10, 2009, 12:17 PM
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Re: [trad_daddy] Zodiac beta. [In reply to]
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Lots of fixed gear... you SHOULD do this route clean (2 sets cams to 3in 1 set of nuts and you'll be sitting pretty) it see's too much abuse. Down load the topo from Supertaco and you'll know everything.


shimanilami


Apr 10, 2009, 1:17 PM
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Re: [trad_daddy] Zodiac beta. [In reply to]
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A couple of cam hooks (esp. for the nipple pitch) and it should go clean without much trouble. I think it would be bold to leave the hammer on the ground, though. There are some pretty crucial fixed heads, and if you blow those, it'll take some creativity to continue clean.


quiteatingmysteak


Apr 19, 2009, 11:53 AM
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Re: [trad_daddy] Zodiac beta. [In reply to]
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I have not climbed it myself, a buddy has, and he recommended some big cams (4 and 5 inch) for the black tower pitch and cam hooks. If you got a big set of nuts you can cam hook the whole nipple pitch, flip the haul line and save a ton of time. Sounds scary though.

Bury some heads in the bottom of your bag, there are some crucial ones (pitch 1 comes to mind, the only pitch i've seen!)

a-hyuck.


areyoumydude


Apr 19, 2009, 1:00 PM
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Re: [quiteatingmysteak] Zodiac beta. [In reply to]
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quiteatingmysteak wrote:
he recommended some big cams (4 and 5 inch) for the black tower pitch.


Wrong

quiteatingmysteak wrote:
If you got a big set of nuts you can cam hook the whole nipple pitch,

Wrong

quiteatingmysteak wrote:
flip the haul line and save a ton of time.

huh?


quiteatingmysteak wrote:
I have not climbed it myself,

Correct


quiteatingmysteak


Apr 19, 2009, 2:41 PM
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Re: [areyoumydude] Zodiac beta. [In reply to]
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from Supertopo.com:

Just did the route over 4 days in a team of two. Status of fixed gear…still pretty light…maybe just south of a dozen pieces on the whole route at the most (excluding old pins and heads). As far as nailing we replaced one missing head on the direct start and didn’t used the hammer again. We left one biner on a bolt and one piece of tat for lowering out when cleaning. We cleaned one fixed stopper.

Our rack was:
Hooks: 2 grappling (one filled) (used lots), bat hook (used some), 3 cam hooks (s, m, l…used all lots), talon (not used)
Nuts: 2 sets larges, 2 sets small (HB & BD offsets)
Ballnuts: Camp red, yellow and green (only placed red one time, others not used)
Rivet hangers:8…need small wires down low…any size on last 2/3 of route.
Heads:6…placed one missing head on the direct start where you move right across a ramp…all others were in place.
Pins:carried super topo package…only used hand placed sawed angles ¾” and 1”(we had two of each)…used quite a bit. One or two smaller saweds for hand placing would have made a couple of placements easier.
Cams: 1 green bd C3, 1 blue, green, yellow, red and new grey alien, 2 blue/grn, grn/yellow, and yellow/red aliens. 1 .4 and .5 C4, 3 .75s and doubles on C4s from #1-#5.


...



For cams, we brought two full sets of Alien hybrids (blue-black to red-yellow) and one regular set (black through red). Bigger than that, we had Camalots/C4's exactly as recommended in the new Supertopo. We also carried 2 sets of HB offset nuts, 2 sets of HB offset micronuts, and 2 complete sets of hooks (3 cam hooks + cliffhanger/grappling hook + bathook; one set was kept on each aider because of all the hooking.)

Ours seemed like an ideal rack. We agreed that if we did it again, we wouldn't change a thing (except perhaps to leave the 'heads). The new Supertopo seemed dead-on as far as gear recommendations.


...

We climbed it the last week in Sept clean except one stickclip move on the Alt p1 start (missing copperhead ?). We carried

2 beaks
2 sawed angles: 1 ea 3/4" and 1"
nuts: regular and offset
micronuts: Trango brassies and HB offsets
ballnuts: 1-3
WC Zeros: 1-6
Hybrid aliens: 2 ea blk/blu to yel/red
Cams: 2 ea 0.5-4 C4 Camalot
2 ea #5 WC Tech Friend
hooks: 2 ea bat to 2" (inc pointed)
Cam Hooks
12 rivet hangers
A selection of pins and heads which stayed in the bag.


...


We had pretty close to the suggested rack from the old Supertopo; doubles or triples from black alien upwards plus a double set of hybrid aliens, and double sets of hooks and cam hooks. The only additional gear I would have brought is one or two more fat pieces for pitch 14 (we had one Metolius #10 and old style BD #'s 4 and 4.5)... but then again, I might not remember it as vividly if I had sewed it up.









I don't doubt that your pretty hardcore and did it with less gear, I'm just letting the guy know what I've been told. Missed a chance to climb it last September, but my rack was similar to those listed above.


The 2 people that told me to use cam hooks to speed up the nipple were Jeremy and Styfingersmink, soon after their ascents.

Of course I haven't been up there, and notice I came right out and said I haven't :D but at least offer some useful help, bro, instead of useless spray.


areyoumydude


Apr 19, 2009, 4:20 PM
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Re: [quiteatingmysteak] Zodiac beta. [In reply to]
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quiteatingmysteak wrote:
from Supertopo.com:

Just did the route over 4 days in a team of two. Status of fixed gear…still pretty light…maybe just south of a dozen pieces on the whole route at the most (excluding old pins and heads). As far as nailing we replaced one missing head on the direct start and didn’t used the hammer again. We left one biner on a bolt and one piece of tat for lowering out when cleaning. We cleaned one fixed stopper.

Our rack was:
Hooks: 2 grappling (one filled) (used lots), bat hook (used some), 3 cam hooks (s, m, l…used all lots), talon (not used)
Nuts: 2 sets larges, 2 sets small (HB & BD offsets)
Ballnuts: Camp red, yellow and green (only placed red one time, others not used)
Rivet hangers:8…need small wires down low…any size on last 2/3 of route.
Heads:6…placed one missing head on the direct start where you move right across a ramp…all others were in place.
Pins:carried super topo package…only used hand placed sawed angles ¾” and 1”(we had two of each)…used quite a bit. One or two smaller saweds for hand placing would have made a couple of placements easier.
Cams: 1 green bd C3, 1 blue, green, yellow, red and new grey alien, 2 blue/grn, grn/yellow, and yellow/red aliens. 1 .4 and .5 C4, 3 .75s and doubles on C4s from #1-#5.


...



For cams, we brought two full sets of Alien hybrids (blue-black to red-yellow) and one regular set (black through red). Bigger than that, we had Camalots/C4's exactly as recommended in the new Supertopo. We also carried 2 sets of HB offset nuts, 2 sets of HB offset micronuts, and 2 complete sets of hooks (3 cam hooks + cliffhanger/grappling hook + bathook; one set was kept on each aider because of all the hooking.)

Ours seemed like an ideal rack. We agreed that if we did it again, we wouldn't change a thing (except perhaps to leave the 'heads). The new Supertopo seemed dead-on as far as gear recommendations.


...

We climbed it the last week in Sept clean except one stickclip move on the Alt p1 start (missing copperhead ?). We carried

2 beaks
2 sawed angles: 1 ea 3/4" and 1"
nuts: regular and offset
micronuts: Trango brassies and HB offsets
ballnuts: 1-3
WC Zeros: 1-6
Hybrid aliens: 2 ea blk/blu to yel/red
Cams: 2 ea 0.5-4 C4 Camalot
2 ea #5 WC Tech Friend
hooks: 2 ea bat to 2" (inc pointed)
Cam Hooks
12 rivet hangers
A selection of pins and heads which stayed in the bag.


...


We had pretty close to the suggested rack from the old Supertopo; doubles or triples from black alien upwards plus a double set of hybrid aliens, and double sets of hooks and cam hooks. The only additional gear I would have brought is one or two more fat pieces for pitch 14 (we had one Metolius #10 and old style BD #'s 4 and 4.5)... but then again, I might not remember it as vividly if I had sewed it up.









I don't doubt that your pretty hardcore and did it with less gear, I'm just letting the guy know what I've been told. Missed a chance to climb it last September, but my rack was similar to those listed above.


The 2 people that told me to use cam hooks to speed up the nipple were Jeremy and Styfingersmink, soon after their ascents.

Of course I haven't been up there, and notice I came right out and said I haven't :D but at least offer some useful help, bro, instead of useless spray.

Never claimed to be hardcore nor did I spray.

Your description of the black tower and the nipple pitch is wrong. You'd need a 5" cam hook to do the nipple pitch with cam hooks alone.

So basicly you are giving bogus beta.

Good luck on sending. It's a great route.


blakeb


Apr 20, 2009, 12:22 PM
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Re: [areyoumydude] Zodiac beta. [In reply to]
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Just wanted to chime in and agree with areyoumydude. He wasnt spraying or what ever you accused him of and the advice that you gave was totally bogus beta. The black tower is a hand crack corner to hand place saw angle corner to a thin seam. For sure no 4s or 5s. On the other hand, the nipple pitch can only be cam hooked for about twenty or thirty feet and then it widens significantly and this is only half the pitch. When i lead the nipple last fall alot of the cam hook moves had fixed gear in them anyway. I did however nail in the second half the nipple pitch, which in hindsight could have been avoided by top stepping. The fixed heads on the 1st pitch mentioned by someone else are only on the alternate start. However there are other fixed heads on the route. There were some fixed angles on the black tower pitch. Most of the pitches seemed like with high stepping, hb brassies, alien hybrids, hand placed saw angles and cam hooks would go clean as long as mandatory fixed heads dont blow.

Great route with awesome features, hope ya enjoy every minute of it. Blake


shimanilami


Apr 20, 2009, 1:02 PM
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Re: [quiteatingmysteak] Zodiac beta. [In reply to]
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quiteatingmysteak wrote:
Status of fixed gear…still pretty light…maybe just south of a dozen pieces on the whole route at the most (excluding old pins and heads).

I appreciate that this is not your quote, but it is an odd thing to say. Fixed heads and pins account for at least 90% of the fixed gear on any aid route I've ever climbed.

When I climbed it last, we were the 2nd party after the "big cleanup", and we still only hammered about a dozen times. (We had to place heads, and my balls weren't big enough to lead the entire nipple pitch entirely on hooks.) It was awesome climbing something without all the fixed gear. Harder, for sure, but still awesome. I'd love to see someone clean it up again.


lambone


Apr 20, 2009, 1:17 PM
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Re: [shimanilami] Zodiac beta. [In reply to]
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We (I) placed one BD Pecker (medium) on the Black Tower pitch, directly above the tower. This was in late October on a 24hr ascent.

That placement can be made clean with a shady flared offset red/yellow alien, but the fall is onto the tower and the cam was just out of my comfort zone. The rest of the route goes clean easily if you hand place a couple sawed angles.

Bring some Heads, some beaks and some small to medium size saweds. and try to leave the hammer in the bag.


tomtom


Apr 20, 2009, 1:24 PM
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Re: [areyoumydude] Zodiac beta. [In reply to]
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areyoumydude wrote:
quiteatingmysteak wrote:
he recommended some big cams (4 and 5 inch) for the black tower pitch.

Wrong

A #5 (WC or new Camalot) can be used at the end of the nipple near the bolt. Multiple #4 and/or #5s can be used on p14 above Peanut Ledge.

areyoumydude wrote:
quiteatingmysteak wrote:
flip the haul line and save a ton of time.

huh?

When above the bolt on the nipple, flip the haul rope outside the crack so that it will run straight to the anchor and keep the bags from getting hung up.


blakeb


Apr 21, 2009, 12:16 PM
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Re: [tomtom] Zodiac beta. [In reply to]
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Who would be dumb enough to attempt hauling their bags between the tit and the wall? I dont think flicking your haul line outside the flake speeds anything up, it is just the obvious way things should go down.

A camel wont thread through a needle and the rich wont get into heaven.
blake


tomtom


Apr 22, 2009, 12:33 PM
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Re: [blakeb] Zodiac beta. [In reply to]
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blakeb wrote:
Who would be dumb enough to attempt hauling their bags between the tit and the wall? I dont think flicking your haul line outside the flake speeds anything up, it is just the obvious way things should go down.
Who would be dumb enough to rap off the end of their rope? Sounds like a good way to die.

But it happens all the time.


Partner pbcowboy77


Apr 22, 2009, 12:47 PM
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Re: [trad_daddy] Zodiac beta. [In reply to]
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Here's some beta...

Grab a rack, go climb it and try not to swing a hammer. It's more fun doing a wall if you don't know the move by move beta before you even do it. Part of doing a big wall is using your melon and problem solving. If you know every place you need to use a hook then it's gonna take away from the experience...

Just go do it and don't die, oh and try not to hurt the rock either...


ZAc


areyoumydude


Apr 25, 2009, 11:27 AM
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Re: [tomtom] Zodiac beta. [In reply to]
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tomtom wrote:
blakeb wrote:
Who would be dumb enough to attempt hauling their bags between the tit and the wall? I dont think flicking your haul line outside the flake speeds anything up, it is just the obvious way things should go down.
Who would be dumb enough to rap off the end of their rope? Sounds like a good way to die.

But it happens all the time.

"If you're hungry eat somethin'. If you're tired pull over"

Just a couple o' more helpful hints.


lambone


Apr 26, 2009, 12:04 PM
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Re: [pbcowboy77] Zodiac beta. [In reply to]
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pbcowboy77 wrote:
Here's some beta...

Grab a rack, go climb it and try not to swing a hammer. It's more fun doing a wall if you don't know the move by move beta before you even do it. Part of doing a big wall is using your melon and problem solving. If you know every place you need to use a hook then it's gonna take away from the experience...

Just go do it and don't die, oh and try not to hurt the rock either...


ZAc

I concur with Zac,
then agin, if yopiu want placement by placement beta on all the cruxes of Zod send me a PM.

Reall knowing the route is nice but ultimately doesn't help you reach the summit that much. It take drive and perserverance and the ability to fight away the bail demons.


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