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Johnny_Fang
Apr 9, 2009, 5:20 PM
Post #26 of 41
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we had the supertopo for red rock and found it was wrong in a few places. that was adventurous! more detail = more chances to get something wrong.
the worst part of the supertopo red rock guide was that it sacrifices breadth of climbs in order to obtain more specificity of a climb. we also had another guide featuring many more climbs and we used that much more often. i can't speak to any other supertopo guides because i haven't used them.
i did like all of the history given about routes and areas and i found myself spending most of my time reading that portion of the guidebook. i think the historical documentation offered by RR supertopo actually contributes to the future of climbing.
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sspssp
Apr 9, 2009, 6:25 PM
Post #28 of 41
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tube_dude wrote: ...Isn't part of the lure of climbing the adventure? And pulling out a topo while climbing and looking to see what piece you should plug in isn't adventure....It's like a dependence. They want the crux etc. mapped out. I'd say "to each his own", but some of these climbers are the kind who drag areas down to the lowest common denomenator (retrobolting mindset... make it "safe"). Anyone else share this opinion? or shed any light on it to change my mind?
Climbing areas do get dragged down with traffic. Take popular classics in Yosemite like E.B. of middle. You follow the well trod dirt trail to the base and the chalk marks to the top and the well trod dirt trail back down.
There is plenty of adventure for those who want to search it out. You aren't going to find it on the very popular routes that supertopo caters to.
Supertopos, unlike say retrobolting, doesn't change the nature of the climb for the next party.
And supertopos just change the nature of the adventure. Because of the detailed information that was available, I was able to successfully climb Steck-Stalathe and Half Dome in a day, way sooner than if I was using info from the 60's/70's. But I was pushing my limits and felt no shortage of adventure.
And I find I can push my technical limits in a safer manner with detailed info. If a route is 11a, can you yard through the 5.11a part? If not, are the falls at the 11a part short, long, dangerous?. Is it a little bit of 11a or a lot? Does it have dangerous 5.10- sections. This is the type of info locals can usually get from other climbers. Supertopo perhaps levels the field a bit and I'm happy to have it. It expands the number of long classics that are within my abilities.
If you don't want it, there are plenty of adventure areas out there and even first ascents out there just waiting for motivated parties to search them and out and climb them.
(This post was edited by sspssp on Apr 9, 2009, 6:31 PM)
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happiegrrrl
Apr 9, 2009, 6:30 PM
Post #29 of 41
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Don't worry. Vacationing gumbys will still very likely be able to have epics of epic proportions even with a Supertopo guidebook at their service. Possible scenarios include:
- Getting on the wrong route, despite fairly detailed approach descriptions and photos
- Dropping pieces while mid-route, or seconds fixing gear, those monkey-wrenching the entire project("The horrors of having only 1 #2 cam when a pitch clearly calls for 2! What WILL you do?
- Topos blowing away in the updraft halfway through the route. "Houston, we have a problem."
- Freak outs and mind-numbing conundrums upon clipping into a bolted belay and seeing the hanger ....move. "Did that hanger just spin? It this a, a....a SPINNER????? AHHHHHHH!!!!!"
and the most especially enticing, the dreaded descent, because we all know that every pine tree looks the same, left and right are so easily accidentally transposed , pine trees that stood one season tumble over the winter, no longer in situ as that trusted guidepost....
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ladyscarlett
Apr 9, 2009, 6:45 PM
Post #30 of 41
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HIGHER_CLIMBER wrote: sidepull wrote: PS - I thought this post was going to be about generational differences between supertopo members and rc members (e.g. those old crabby hard guys vs. beanie wearing chest shaving know-it-all's). Ya, me too. Someone get on this. I have a long day at work. 
Me three!
I suppose one could say that super topo is creating the beanie wearing chest shaving know-it-all crew. I mean once you've read the topo, you know it all , right?
In fact, supertopo tells me so much I find I don't even want to do the climb after reading the topo. The book is so detailed, I feel like I've already done the climb, so I don't even need to leave my safe gym, comfy couch, and box of donuts with a side of bacon!
Sarcasm aside I've only just recently started reading in depth a SuperTopo book (Yosemite, here I come!) and as a complete newbie, it is somewhat nice to have a general idea of the climb. I'm still learning what I'm looking at on the rock AND in the book and how to translate the information I'm seeing (on rock and pages) into action. So some of us newbies are double checking our route finding so we don't have to be rescued off the side of the mountain. Just because I want to internalize the information in the book now doesn't mean I will in the future - situations change. I'm looking forward to a future when I'm confident enough to climb without having to bring the book for an intense study session at the bottom of the climb. Until then, I'll stay alive and well to climb the next day.
This climber wants to get past the n00b stage, and if a book is going to help me....well then I'll read a book.
Better watch out for my beanie wearing, shaved chest crew!
2p
ls
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shimanilami
Apr 9, 2009, 6:48 PM
Post #31 of 41
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petsfed wrote: tube_dude wrote: what size gear you'll need for a belay Isn't this standard? If an anchor requires certain pieces or it simply will not exist, it seems reasonable to me to at least say "save some hand sized pieces for the belay" or "bring a #4 friend for the belay". If I absolutely must have a #5 camalot for the belay, I'd kinda like to know that before I get to the belay, you know?
Your problem is that you have no sense of adventure.
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Gmburns2000
Apr 9, 2009, 7:01 PM
Post #32 of 41
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ladyscarlett wrote: Better watch out for my beanie wearing, shaved chest crew!
this post is useless without pictures
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ladyscarlett
Apr 9, 2009, 7:13 PM
Post #33 of 41
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Gmburns2000 wrote: ladyscarlett wrote: Better watch out for my beanie wearing, shaved chest crew! this post is useless without pictures
Ha!
The pictures didn't turn out, the horror of it made the camera implode! Stubble sucks - heh...except for the one featuring the SuperTopo book... strange, it must be magic!
ls
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Gmburns2000
Apr 9, 2009, 7:20 PM
Post #34 of 41
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ladyscarlett wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: ladyscarlett wrote: Better watch out for my beanie wearing, shaved chest crew! this post is useless without pictures Ha! The pictures didn't turn out, the horror of it made the camera implode! Stubble sucks - heh...except for the one featuring the SuperTopo book... strange, it must be magic! ls
I hate magic! 
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dynosore
Apr 9, 2009, 7:30 PM
Post #35 of 41
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tube_dude wrote: No offense, to CM and his supertopo guidebooks, he's filling a niche, obviously talented and smart, but what what are his guidebooks doing for climbing's future? Am I the only one who thinks (super)topos that tell you what size piece to put in what crack, what size gear you'll need for a belay, and how to surmount difficulties along the way sort of overdoing it? Isn't part of the lure of climbing the adventure? And pulling out a topo while climbing and looking to see what piece you should plug in isn't adventure. I understand the desire to gather info, and get prepared, but they seem a little much. And the really scary thing, and the reason for my post, is that some climbers I've met simply can't function without them. It's like a dependence. They want the crux etc. mapped out. I'd say "to each his own", but some of these climbers are the kind who drag areas down to the lowest common denomenator (retrobolting mindset... make it "safe"). Anyone else share this opinion? or shed any light on it to change my mind?
I'd dare say those using supertopos are still having far more adventure than the 90% of climbers who are clipping bolts, or in a gym, or bouldering. If you don't like them, don't use them.
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Johnny_Fang
Apr 9, 2009, 7:31 PM
Post #36 of 41
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ladyscarlett wrote: In fact, supertopo tells me so much I find I don't even want to do the climb after reading the topo. The book is so detailed, I feel like I've already done the climb, so I don't even need to leave my safe gym, comfy couch, and box of donuts with a side of bacon!
off-sighting. it's redpointing for the new millennium.
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petsfed
Apr 9, 2009, 7:36 PM
Post #37 of 41
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Johnny_Fang wrote: ladyscarlett wrote: In fact, supertopo tells me so much I find I don't even want to do the climb after reading the topo. The book is so detailed, I feel like I've already done the climb, so I don't even need to leave my safe gym, comfy couch, and box of donuts with a side of bacon! off-sighting. it's redpointing for the new millennium.
Which is different from clear-pointing, where there is some mitigating circumstance that prevented you from sending, but you and all your friends agree that you "totally had it, brah!". At which point you can check it off the list and move to the next super sweet project.
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HIGHER_CLIMBER
Apr 9, 2009, 11:17 PM
Post #38 of 41
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Gmburns2000 wrote: ladyscarlett wrote: Better watch out for my beanie wearing, shaved chest crew! this post is useless without pictures
YES!!! 
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HIGHER_CLIMBER
Apr 9, 2009, 11:20 PM
Post #39 of 41
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ladyscarlett wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: ladyscarlett wrote: Better watch out for my beanie wearing, shaved chest crew! this post is useless without pictures Ha! The pictures didn't turn out, the horror of it made the camera implode! Stubble sucks - heh...except for the one featuring the SuperTopo book... strange, it must be magic! ls
NO!!! 
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climbingam
Apr 9, 2009, 11:40 PM
Post #40 of 41
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I think you have it right, for n00bs like me, just starting trad, it's no different than having a mentor give us the uber-beta for a new lead. I think as people get more experienced, they will naturally gravitate away from the detailed help. Of course if they don't, as has been said, who cares?
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