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timpanogos
Nov 24, 2002, 1:40 AM
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Registered: May 17, 2002
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5.12-quartzite slab bolt ladder 2nd and 3rd bolt require 2nd step, knees knocking, I wobble up into them. 4th to 6th bolts reached by 3rd step. 7th 8th hangers are old Ό rivet hangers (2nd step) 9th bolt ahhhhh the hanger bolt is broken off flush with the wall. Im carrying a full trad rack but there is nothing that is going to place here I lowered down off on my grigi. It turns out the top half has 1 more flush break and one missing hanger.
I have a new project! I need hooks and duck tape for two moves on this route. It looked like a pointy hook (dont you love my technical name here) would do the trick.
Anyway, you can scramble to the top, so I carried my haul line up, rapped down on it, cleaned what I had in, and setup my croll for the last ½ have jug.
Question the backup knot seemed to defeat the croll, as even 15 of rope did not have enough weight to self-feed it. What am I missing here?
One more question this slab is almost vertical, so the ladders are laying on the wall any tricks on getting your feet nice and comfy on the steps. On 3rd step, I could easily reach the top of the aiders and hold them out a bit to position the middle of my foot on the step. Second step was try and hook that 2nd step with your toe, getting squarely in this one is much harder especially to do smoothly which Im going to have to do on those two hook moves.
Wow, what a rush! All help is much appreciated.
Thanks
Chad
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flamer
Nov 24, 2002, 5:43 AM
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Registered: Oct 22, 2002
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Ah yes grasshopper, soon you will learn the "toe flick" method of getting ones feet into aiders!
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soaring_bird
Nov 25, 2002, 5:58 AM
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Registered: Nov 1, 2002
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Sorry you didn't make it past the broken bolt this time. However, it actually is possible to get past that point. Depending on how far apart the bolts are, you might find that it could be possible to reach all the way to the next one by stepping up into your top steps, and perhaps even higher by stepping into the grab loop on your aider (if they have 'em.... If not, add a tie-off loop of your own.) In order to step high like this, you'll need to have your daisy chain adjusted to the exact appropriate length (or a daisy chain/fifi hook combination) in order to pull UP and BACK with a lot of tension pulling your harness in a downward direction. This really works, even on vertical rock. It takes getting used to having the bolt down by your shin, and when learning to super-top-step, it is not uncommon for a person to topple over backwards while standing in the aiders. Be sure your belayer is ready to "take." You aren't exactly standing in total balance over your feet when pulling up and out against your daisy. But with the proper tension, you can actually use that leverage to your advantage. Also, have you tried "aid bouldering" near the ground, testing the most unimagineable placements? It is the best way to learn how to hook and place heads. Instead of backing off when you reached the missing bolt, there was probably a head or hook placement in between that would get you past the blank spot (if you could not reach the next bolt by standing in your top-step or the grab loop on your aider.) It doesn't take much of an indentation on a smooth face to make a head stick. Practicing tricky placements on the ground will get you through tough situations high up on a wall someday. Good job with getting out there and trying an aid lead. Keep the desire alive and burning, and someday I'll see you on the big stone, mate!
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timpanogos
Nov 25, 2002, 3:06 PM
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When I was rapping and cleaning, I took a very close look at the missing bolt areas A good portion of the bolts were 2nd steppers as it was I dont think the first step would have done it and me getting into the 2nd was hard enough for me at his point (1st time on the rock, on solo). I thought about the copper smashable heads, and actually checked this out closely - Of coarse I have no experience with them, but this is what I saw.
Very 5.12ish ledge holds we are talking stacked fingers tips on Ό ledges that angle to form Vs. Some of the Vs were way smaller than finger size, and looked like potential copper smashers, but the wire would come outward Ό and over the ledge absolutely no cracks/indentations where the wire would at least lay flat against the rock. The V shaped ledges is why I assumed a pointed hook would be the trick.
Im excited to get back out, with some hooks and try this Next time I think Ill scramble up and drop a line from the top go ahead and solo it from the bottom, but tie my ascender into the TR for a backup and a cheater for practicing those high steppers with TOE FLICK.
The static line tie-down sounds like a great idea Also trying some heads as suggested damn, need more stuff
BTW ethics, I assume practicing with heads on trad/sport routes might be a bad thing in fact hooks might pop an hold. Do you guys have any experience with practicing in sports/trad areas bad ethics?
Thanks
Chad
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atg200
Nov 25, 2002, 3:51 PM
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Registered: Jul 27, 2001
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do not place heads on a trad line! be very careful hooking as well if the holds are in any way in danger of popping off - hooking puts a lot of force onto them and you'll be lynched for sure.
good job - soloing your first aid pitch is pretty ballsy and complicates matters.
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crswallrat
Nov 25, 2002, 4:19 PM
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Registered: Feb 12, 2002
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Hey, what route were you trying to aid? Was it in Rock Canyon?
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timpanogos
Nov 25, 2002, 4:41 PM
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Registered: May 17, 2002
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wallrat,
yea, rock canyon, Green Monster slab has a 5.10d small crack system called the aid route. Turns out just to the north of this route is an old 5.12 bolt ladder - I started on the ladder - but also plan on doing the Green Monster Aid route.
Plus, next spring I'll start hitting BCC and LCC multipitch trad routes.
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crswallrat
Nov 25, 2002, 4:48 PM
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Registered: Feb 12, 2002
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Cool, I thought that was the route you were describing. I've aided it a bunch of times. The trick is to get a rivet hanger with the thinnest cable (preferrably the cinch type)and just use that rivet. It looks totally bunk but I've used it every time. The rivet has a tiny mushroom on it that keeps the wire from sliding off. Or, you could do a couple hook moves to get to the next bolt. Also carry a BD skyhook 'cause you'll need it up higher. Oh, and the Green Monster aid crack is a cool route to aid as well. Bring lots of thin stuff. Good luck man.
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timpanogos
Nov 25, 2002, 4:57 PM
Post #9 of 14
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Registered: May 17, 2002
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yea, I put a peanut wire on that nut, but chickened out - If I had tape, I might have gone for it. I'm so darn wobbely at this point- oh well, I was backup tied in real close, I just need to go ahead and take a fall on this thing.
P.S. Do you guys mod your grigri at all? tape the handle or anything. There is a lot of stuff right there at waist level. I'm dropping my harness off at DB today, they are going to sew another belay loop on for me.
Chad
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crswallrat
Nov 25, 2002, 5:06 PM
Post #10 of 14
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Registered: Feb 12, 2002
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No, I don't tape my grigri. I'm curious what you used for anchors though? Also, that route isn't that steep so you should be able to get into the second steps. It's all balance. A good way to do it is to stand in your aiders, with your feet forming a little V. So your toes are apart and your heels are touching. Give it a shot and you'll see that it really helps you keep your balance. On that route you should be nice and comfy reaching up without having to hold onto anything to keep your balance. I know what you're talking about slinging that rivet though, kinda creepy. I'd definately go get a cinch hanger.
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timpanogos
Nov 25, 2002, 7:37 PM
Post #11 of 14
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Registered: May 17, 2002
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For the bottom anchor β there was a crack about 10β below the first bolt, that took two zeroβs and a number 1 nut β all set for an upward pull. I equalized a cordalete on these three pieces. I tied the lead line into the powerpoint. There is a big ledge under the first bolt making it easily reachable β I clipped a short QD to this bolt and tied the lead line with a clove hitch in the lower biner and adjusted the hitch to put upward tension on my anchor to keep it set snuggly. The clove hitch gave me a backup on the anchor as well as a directional on it. I realize it was not very dynamic, but it was solid, and all set up before I even hooked the aiders to that first bolt. I purposely keep my backup knot very short, and adjusted it every move.
I did one dumb thing, several moves up, I go to clip the rope in, and realize that my previous clip was on the free end of my lead line, not the load side. I was clipping every bolt so It would have only been 6 to 8 feet, but geeeze, I will not do that again!
Actually this wall is quite vertical β I would guess 80 degrees, I got in those darn 2nd steps a few times, desperately trying to cling to those 5.12 holds. β ok, maybe it just seems steep as heck cause Iβm a gumby β I know when I ascended my second line, the handled ascender did not touch the rock. Canβt wait to get back and try it again β Iβll try the V.
I appreciate all the suggestions!
Chad
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timpanogos
Nov 25, 2002, 8:48 PM
Post #12 of 14
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Registered: May 17, 2002
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Andrew,
Special thanks to you and Pete for all the PM noise I gave you - ballsy, I suppose, but I had studied it, planned it, bugged you guys to death about it, felt good about it, and did it!
Next time out, I think I'll drop another tr line from the top, drop the ascender on it for a TR backup and get gutsier on some topstepping pratice - this way if I go to peel over backwards, the tr will keep me from cracking my beaner.
Thanks for your help - looking forward to next spring.
Chad
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passthepitonspete
Nov 27, 2002, 4:39 AM
Post #13 of 14
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Registered: Oct 10, 2001
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Uh, like, you don't use a backup knot when you are jugging with the Frog System, eh?
Sheesh.
So like, you can click here to Ask Dr. Piton ... about using backup knots while jugging.
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apollodorus
Nov 27, 2002, 4:57 AM
Post #14 of 14
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Registered: Feb 18, 2002
Posts: 2157
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Steal your little sister's transistor radio and break the antenna off. Tape a hook to it and cheat, cheat, cheat. OOPS! That was 20 years ago. Nobody has a radio with an extensible antenna anymore.
But, you can still cheat with a stick.
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