Apr 15, 2009, 3:36 PM
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Doubling-up: same brand or different?
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Howdy folks,
Wondering what your preference is, and maybe a comment about as to why, for adding a second set of nuts and/or cams to your rack.
Would you want the same brand/style of what you already have because you know the sizing and will be able to pick the right one vs. having to learn a new sizing system for a new brand?
Or perhaps you would pick a different brand so that you have variety and versatility, with the idea that one brand might work better in a given placement than another?
I'm talking about a need for doubling up on something (just need more of them) and not about the need for a different style piece (i.e. adding offsets nuts to a regular set of nuts).
Let's hear it!
PS: Yes, I included 'Pancakes" for all you pad-people/sporties that don't place gear but feel the need to put in your two cents anyway.
I prefer different brands and even different styles (mix single and U stems, for example).
I don't take many nuts anymore - half a dozen for most routes unless it is specifically a nutting route. CA granite for the most part so HB OFfsets rule.
I have 2 or 3 other sets of nuts, maybe 4 now that I think about it. They commiserate their inactivity together in the bottom of the gear bin.
When you are just getting started, doubling up one brand probably helps. You learn the sizes, colors, find by touch, etc. quicker.
Over time, I suspect that most climbers end up with a mix. It just seems that each brand has areas of strength. For example, I always liked Aliens at the smallest sizes, Camalots through the middle ranges, and, well, pretty much nothing at the big sizes (as far as I'm concerned, they are all heavy and kind of suck).
I know quite a few people who double up with two brands. Usually with the idea that it gives better range coverage. There might be something to this, but I haven't really noticed it much. Personally, I prefer certain brands for certain placement sizes.
I'm for mixing brands (although I mis-voted as same ).
There's the range thing, but more it's about having a variety to better fit the placements. Some just seem to work better in certain situations, so having a mix optimizes that chance.
For a relatively new climber getting a second set of cams, I would probably stick with the same brands (if you are happy with them), just because of ease of use. For instance, with different brands, similar sized cams will have different color slings (unless you have them custom reslung).
I would say that different sizes makes only a small difference, except for the sandstone splitters that you find at places like Indian Creek (where I would strongly recommend different brand/sizes).
Difference in place-ability isn't that big of deal for medium to large cams. It is more of an issue for the micro cams (where I think that Aliens rule for place-ability, although they don't come out on top for reliability).
(This post was edited by sspssp on Apr 15, 2009, 5:42 PM)
I vote different. I prefer camalots because of their range and my early experience with them, but my second set is definitely Metolius. They are good cams and can be found very cheap (I doubt I've paid more than 40 dollars for the most expensive one). As Sp mentioned, if you ever head to Indian creek (or other splitter areas) you will become much more aware of the differences of cam min and max ranges. It's interesting how the subtle differences in the range of say, a #2 camalot vs. a #3 friend, can mean all the difference between a solid, or unstable placement. If you are wondering about the largest cams, stick with Wild Country.
for the bigger stuff- .75 camalot and up, i prefer to double up on the same brand- BD in particular. cant think of a great reason other than i dont really care for other cams in that size range.
for the smaller stuff, though, i carry a potpourri...a little of everything- BD, metolius as of late, and even cch and wild country when my partners bring their racks. havent found a cam i'm totally in love with that serves all needs in the smaller range, but a good mix serves me well.
stoppers, i just carry a pile around- a set and a half usually. use them a fair bit too.
You mustn't be a true gear whore or you'd already know that you should do both.
I voted for both options since it's really 6 of 1, half dozen of the other. FWIW I doubled up my Camalots with DMMs but when I climb with someone else with a Camalot rack we usually double up with those as needed.
I'm clearly in the minority, here. I prefer Aliens in the small sizes and BD's for the bigger ones. I have several sets of the same lineup, because it's my opinion that everything else sucks by comparison.
I'm clearly in the minority, here. I prefer Aliens in the small sizes and BD's for the bigger ones. I have several sets of the same lineup, because it's my opinion that everything else sucks by comparison.
For nuts, I mix it up. HB, BD and Metolius.
I'd be willing to bet that the majority of people who consciously double up on the same brands of cams rock solely the aliens and bigger bds. I'd think tcus and larger bds would come in a distant second.
I don't double up different brands to get more range. I think the whole range thing is way-over emphasized - a big bugaboo for the most part.
I use different cam brands and style for one reason in particular -
WEIGHT.
My 2nd rack is also my alpine rack. I ain't taking no Camelots up high if I don't have too.
3rd rack is old gear, but still servicable - Friends, various booty cams, etc. Fromt that pile I can even cobble together most of a 4th rack.
DMT
This would be my post as well. Metolius cams started as my second rack and have now become my go to pieces for hard routes. I thought there would be a range issue or a single stem issue but it's only on paper or the ground: on lead, same same, but better.
for the most part i use c4's, almost all my rag tag seconds are trango or metolius. I do however like the trango splitters and the tcu's for smaller stuff. nuts well bd and metolius and dmm. oh and a few of te larger old school slung hexcentrics on multi pitch.
I'm clearly in the minority, here. I prefer Aliens in the small sizes and BD's for the bigger ones. I have several sets of the same lineup, because it's my opinion that everything else sucks by comparison.
I'm clearly in the minority, here. I prefer Aliens in the small sizes and BD's for the bigger ones. I have several sets of the same lineup, because it's my opinion that everything else sucks by comparison.
I'm with you 100 %
Amen! Though I love my link cams too. And I have a full set of c3's bought during the aliengate debacle.
Larger gear, same brand. smaller gear different. Big placements arnt too finicky, its the small ones where the C3 will fit but the mastercam wont, or visa versa. Extremely true for aid! I've got 00-4 mastercams and 00-2 c3s, use em both, love em both. Then doubles of c4s in the .75-3s
I mostly alternate between camalots and friends (or the DMM equivalent), but this is mostly because I actively dislike Metolius and Trango cams. I don't really consider any other brands, and the extended range cams like the Links and whatever the Trango and Metolius offerings are all kind of specialty pieces that don't figure into my doubling up.
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