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desertwanderer81


Apr 23, 2009, 5:03 PM
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Re: [caliclimbergrl] Most Over Rated/Under Rated Crags? [In reply to]
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caliclimbergrl wrote:
I do think J Tree is a pretty cool place, I just don't think the climbing is all that great. But since I can climb there in December and January when it's too wet and cold to climb up here, I always have a good time there. I don't think it's an awful place or anything -- just over rated.

LOL, I totally agree. The place is amazingly beautiful. But if you want to climb in the winter for a weekend, why not just head to RR? ;)


caliclimbergrl


Apr 23, 2009, 8:16 PM
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Re: [desertwanderer81] Most Over Rated/Under Rated Crags? [In reply to]
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desertwanderer81 wrote:
caliclimbergrl wrote:
I do think J Tree is a pretty cool place, I just don't think the climbing is all that great. But since I can climb there in December and January when it's too wet and cold to climb up here, I always have a good time there. I don't think it's an awful place or anything -- just over rated.

LOL, I totally agree. The place is amazingly beautiful. But if you want to climb in the winter for a weekend, why not just head to RR? ;)

Yeah, that's a good question and I would certainly prefer being in RR!! But it's a much longer drive from San Diego and I usually have to try to combine visiting my family with a climbing trip. As it is, I show up and say, "Hi Mom and Dad. Merry Christmas. Can I borrow your car to drive to J-Tree for a few days?" I think they'd be even less happy about it if I wanted to drive all the way to Vegas. And flying to both places is a bit too pricey for me.


(This post was edited by caliclimbergrl on Apr 23, 2009, 8:16 PM)


Alphaboth


Apr 23, 2009, 8:36 PM
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Re: [cfnubbler] Most Over Rated/Under Rated Crags? [In reply to]
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Rumney is just is what it is, I don't think you can say it's over rated. I feel like people who don't sport climb don't talk about or hardly know of it. If you sport climb, it's rad, almost as rad as the red i'd say.


crackmd


Apr 23, 2009, 8:46 PM
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Re: [Alphaboth] Most Over Rated/Under Rated Crags? [In reply to]
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I agree with Josh that Jtree is a magical place. It's an acquired taste which if you are not fortunate enough to acquire, you'll be driving across the desert in search of the user-friendliness of Red Rocks. Some of my finest hours have been spent wandering that desert in search of classic lines. Imaginary Voyage really is something special.

Overrated-without a doubt, Mt. Charleston is a poorly chipped-out pile of icy-slick limestone which only has cool temps in summer going for it. I gave this place multiple chances and just never "got-it". I'd rather wake up at 6am and climb for a few hours before the summer heat hits at Red Rocks. My apologies to the Vegas locals who have few choices for cool temps in summer.


(This post was edited by crackmd on Apr 23, 2009, 8:48 PM)


rockandlice


Apr 23, 2009, 8:51 PM
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Re: [crackmd] Most Over Rated/Under Rated Crags? [In reply to]
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I agree about NRG. SO over rated. Definitely not worth the trip. Save you're gas money folks. DO NOT EVEN THINK OF GOING!


i_h8_choss


Apr 23, 2009, 8:54 PM
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Re: [desertwanderer81] Most Over Rated/Under Rated Crags? [In reply to]
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Chimney Rocks in SNF, CA is a great crag with mix trad,sport, and muti-pitch, but no one climbs there.


curt


Apr 23, 2009, 9:04 PM
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Re: [bandycoot] Most Over Rated/Under Rated Crags? [In reply to]
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bandycoot wrote:
Well, while you all avoid it I'll be out in J-Tree this weekend. It's a magical place, fun to camp, explore, and climb. The routes are unendingly varied (have you done Imaginary Voyage?) and the friction is great. Yes, you have to chase stars and there are a lot of routes that aren't worth it, but there are hundreds that are and sometimes the 2 hour hike to get there is part of the fun...

Jesus, Josh, STFU. DO NOT pay any attention to this man. JT is nothing more than one choss pile after another. What ever you do, stay the hell away from Joshua Tree. If you do go there you will almost certainly have a bad time--and you may also die. Cool

Curt


Myxomatosis


Apr 23, 2009, 9:36 PM
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Re: [curt] Most Over Rated/Under Rated Crags? [In reply to]
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My friend just got back from JTree and Bishop (boulder only) and said not to waste your time at JTree Unsure

As for North Island NZ Crags...

Overrated... Mangokewa... nearly been killed two times out of four visits from falling rocks. (When I say rocks I mean head size)

Under Rated... Waipapa.... amazing friction, awesome routes... and then theres the Lakeside wall Cool... everything down there is brick hard and long.

http://www.freeclimb.co.nz/...379/pdfs/Waipapa.pdf


caliclimbergrl


Apr 23, 2009, 9:40 PM
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Re: [blueeyedclimber] Most Over Rated/Under Rated Crags? [In reply to]
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blueeyedclimber wrote:
Underrated: Squamish. I know this is a world-class destination already, but I don't think most people realize how good this place is. It is the only place that my wife and I have decided to go to every other year. The best part about it is the variety of climbing.

Josh

I would have said Squamish, but like you said, it is a world-class destination. But it is hands down my favorite place I've ever been!! I spent two summers there living there and climbing full time now and I'm still not sick of it. I guess you could say it's under-rated because, while most people have heard it's great, you can't possibly know how amazing it is until you go there!


pyrosis


Apr 23, 2009, 10:39 PM
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Re: [desertwanderer81] Most Over Rated/Under Rated Crags? [In reply to]
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desertwanderer81 wrote:
LOL, I totally agree. The place is amazingly beautiful. But if you want to climb in the winter for a weekend, why not just head to RR? ;)

Best reason to go to Josh: The camping is fantastic.
Best reason to avoid Red Rocks: The camping SUCKS.


pyrosis


Apr 23, 2009, 10:43 PM
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Re: [crackmd] Most Over Rated/Under Rated Crags? [In reply to]
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crackmd wrote:
My apologies to the Vegas locals who have few choices for cool temps in summer.

Been seeing a lot of them Vegeese in our neck of the woods lately, Mike! Not surprisingly. :)

But sshhh.. I won't say where. It's 'under rated' you know.


caughtinside


Apr 24, 2009, 10:18 AM
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Re: [sspssp] Most Over Rated/Under Rated Crags? [In reply to]
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sspssp wrote:
caughtinside wrote:
Overrated. Potrero Chico, no question. Worst destination area I{ve ever been to. Like everyone else, I was excited by the prospect of 15 pitch plus sport routes. What I found is that they were chossy, boring, repetitive, poorly bolted, contrived in that you can climb 3 feet off the cleaned line into the jungle and climb a tree, and you spend more time rapping than climbing.

As a thought experiment: I've always wondered what Potrero would be like if it was located where JT was (and JT was where Potrero was). Potrero has a lot of loose, chossy rock (and so does/did JT). With traffic/effort, it cleans ups. The popular sport climbs are, I thought, pretty good. If thousands of CA climbers had been going to Potrero (cleaning it up including the trees/vegatation) for decades, instead of spending all that time developing JT, I bet Potrero would justifiably be a mega-classic destination. (As opposed to the unjustified mega-classic destination that is JT.Wink)

Interesting idea. Part of it would depend on the relative cleanliness of the place too for me. Joshua tree is beautiful and tranquil. The potrero is dirty, noisy, has ugly buildings and an ugly road, grafitti all over the rocks, dudes blasting car stereos, bulldozers and backhoes working, etc.


desertwanderer81


Apr 24, 2009, 10:19 AM
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Re: [pyrosis] Most Over Rated/Under Rated Crags? [In reply to]
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pyrosis wrote:
desertwanderer81 wrote:
LOL, I totally agree. The place is amazingly beautiful. But if you want to climb in the winter for a weekend, why not just head to RR? ;)

Best reason to go to Josh: The camping is fantastic.
Best reason to avoid Red Rocks: The camping SUCKS.

I have never, nor will I ever camp at RR. I have way too many friends with couches to crash on down there ;)


caughtinside


Apr 24, 2009, 10:24 AM
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Re: [potreroed] Most Over Rated/Under Rated Crags? [In reply to]
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potreroed wrote:
caughtinside wrote:
Overrated. Potrero Chico, no question. Worst destination area I{ve ever been to. Like everyone else, I was excited by the prospect of 15 pitch plus sport routes. What I found is that they were chossy, boring, repetitive, poorly bolted, contrived in that you can climb 3 feet off the cleaned line into the jungle and climb a tree, and you spend more time rapping than climbing. It was like doing lots of really really bad trad multipitches. the cragging was a little better. Terrible crag with good weather in februrary and a good approach.



Sounds like you climbed a bunch of Dane Bass' routes while you were here.

I did. They were terrible. I also climbed routes put up by guys named magic ed and kurt smith. They weren't much better. 12 climbing days there and I didn't do a single great or even really good route.

I was planning on doing TWZ, but after climbing black cat bone and yankee clipper, alleged 3 star routes and finding they were terrible, I just couldn't subject my toes to the pain or my brain to the boredom of doing a 22 pitch repetitive ladder.

At least in Josh you actually have to know how to climb.


nnowinowski


Apr 24, 2009, 10:58 AM
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I have a feeling that a lot of people complaining of choss in eldo and other places are climbing easy crap and complaining about how blocky and loose it is. Learn to climb or don't complain.


lemon_boy


Apr 24, 2009, 11:24 AM
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Re: [nnowinowski] Most Over Rated/Under Rated Crags? [In reply to]
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hmm, having climbed over 400 routes at eldo, up to 12b, i still would have to say it blows. i don't even waste my time getting an annual pass there anymore. despite living about 5 minutes away.

when i have friends come to town, they do the naked edge, and afterwards say "you guys call that world class?".


sspssp


Apr 24, 2009, 12:15 PM
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Re: [crackmd] Most Over Rated/Under Rated Crags? [In reply to]
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crackmd wrote:
I agree with Josh that Jtree is a magical place. It's an acquired taste which if you are not fortunate enough to acquire, you'll be driving across the desert in search of the user-friendliness of Red Rocks.

If it requires an "acquired taste" I think that is sufficient to label it overrated. I'm not claiming JT sucks, I've climbed there plenty in winter (shortest drive to something dry and somewhat warm). It is a cool place to wander around and there are a few dozen pretty good routes if you are willing to either get in line, or spend an hour doing the approach, or both.

But, for example, if I was recommending a list of places for someone flying in from Europe, it would never make the list. Nine months out of the year it is hot and if they were climbing over the winter months there is better stuff (southern AZ, for instance). It is just not a "destination craig" in my book. If it is the closest crag to you with good conditions, sure...


sspssp


Apr 24, 2009, 12:23 PM
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Re: [caliclimbergrl] Most Over Rated/Under Rated Crags? [In reply to]
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caliclimbergrl wrote:
blueeyedclimber wrote:
Underrated: Squamish. I know this is a world-class destination already, but I don't think most people realize how good this place is. It is the only place that my wife and I have decided to go to every other year. The best part about it is the variety of climbing.

Josh

I would have said Squamish, but like you said, it is a world-class destination. But it is hands down my favorite place I've ever been!! I spent two summers there living there and climbing full time now and I'm still not sick of it. I guess you could say it's under-rated because, while most people have heard it's great, you can't possibly know how amazing it is until you go there!

Squamish is a fun place, but I guess it also depends on whether you are talking about just the climbing or the overall experience. It climbs like Yosemite. Any crack/cliff in Squamish and there is something similar to it in Yosemite.

Upside of Squamish: it is pretty and not an urban zoo, camping is friendlier than Yosemite (that's not saying much). Surrounded by some good sport climbing. The descent from the multi-pitch has stairs.

Downsides: much smaller, much more rain, the routes sprout lichen between the time you climb them and your second comes up. What would be a bivy ledge in Yosemite is a vegetated forrest/jungle in Squamish, still next to a highway and increasingly surburban/urban environment.

When I've made it up to Squamish, and it has been dry, I've really enjoyed it. But it can be a bit hit or miss as a destination crag.


(This post was edited by sspssp on Apr 24, 2009, 12:25 PM)


pmyche


Apr 24, 2009, 12:25 PM
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caliclimbergrl


Apr 24, 2009, 12:28 PM
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Re: [sspssp] Most Over Rated/Under Rated Crags? [In reply to]
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sspssp wrote:
caliclimbergrl wrote:
blueeyedclimber wrote:
Underrated: Squamish. I know this is a world-class destination already, but I don't think most people realize how good this place is. It is the only place that my wife and I have decided to go to every other year. The best part about it is the variety of climbing.

Josh

I would have said Squamish, but like you said, it is a world-class destination. But it is hands down my favorite place I've ever been!! I spent two summers there living there and climbing full time now and I'm still not sick of it. I guess you could say it's under-rated because, while most people have heard it's great, you can't possibly know how amazing it is until you go there!

Squamish is a fun place, but I guess it also depends on whether you are talking about just the climbing or the overall experience. It climbs like Yosemite. Any crack/cliff in Squamish and there is something similar to it in Yosemite.

Upside of Squamish: it is pretty and not an urban zoo, camping is friendlier than Yosemite (that's not saying much). Surrounded by some good sport climbing.

Downsides: much smaller, much more rain, the routes sprout lichen between the time you climb them and your second comes up. What would be a bivy ledge in Yosemite is a vegetated forrest/jungle in Squamish, still next to a highway and increasingly surburban/urban environment.

When I've made it up to Squamish, and it has been dry, I've really enjoyed it. But it can be a bit hit or miss as a destination crag.

I don't disagree with any of that. I've only been to Yosemite once and I would never even dream of saying that Squamish is actually a better place to climb then Yosemite in regard to variety, and abundance of routes. And probably reliability of weather as well. And there is no doubt that Yosemite is a very beautiful place! But I do think the quality of routes in Squamish can compete with Yosemite.

But I do think Squamish is better than people who haven't been there think it is -- there really is a lot of great climbing to be had there!! And while it may not be as beautiful as Yosemite, I think it is a very beautiful place. And on personal level -- Squamish is just my happy place. I am probably the least spiritual person around and I don't even believe in the existence of a soul. But if I did, I would definitely say Squamish just speaks to my soul. There's something about that place, including but not limited to the climbing, that is just very special to me.


(This post was edited by caliclimbergrl on Apr 24, 2009, 12:30 PM)


Partner angry


Apr 24, 2009, 12:55 PM
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Eldo is what it is.

The nice thing about the place is that it managed to get spared of the ravages of the Hilti and Bosch that ripped through and are currently ripping through the front range.

If it was 50 miles from anywhere, it would have about 30 routes or it would have been assaulted from every angle with crowbars then grid bolted. With it's proximity to Boulder though, it's been loved. The cool thing though, unlike Boulder Canyon etc, is that it didn't get loved to death.

I find an equal combination of choss and awesome movement there. It's some damn fine local choss. It is not road-trip material though.


cchas


Apr 27, 2009, 8:00 AM
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Squamish if you hit it when its dry is an amazing place. There are great routes. The nice thing is that the variety of long free routes is huge, and areas that you can go that are quiet. When I've been at the Sheriffs Badge, its been totally quiet.

Unfortunately some routes could use a bit of scrubbing for the lichen growth. The direct start of Movin to Montana was certainly spicy trying to stem out onto lichen that was still retaining water otherwise it would be an great pitch.


cfnubbler


Apr 27, 2009, 8:43 AM
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Alphaboth wrote:
Rumney is just is what it is, I don't think you can say it's over rated. I feel like people who don't sport climb don't talk about or hardly know of it. If you sport climb, it's rad, almost as rad as the red i'd say.

Sure I can. Watch: "It's over rated". See? No problem.

As good as the Red? I can only assume that you've either never been to the Red, or are trolling. Have you actually sport climbed anywhere other than Rumney? Look, I LIKE Rumney. It's a pleasant little collection of crags with a small handful of truly excellent walls. But from a national perspective, it's not even in the top 20 or 30 sport crags in either quality or quantity.

I'm not trying to bag on it...I agree that it is what it is: A good little regional area. It's simply been hyped out of all proportion.


jsunmatthews


Apr 27, 2009, 8:58 AM
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Gotta agree with Josh on the over, though I still love going there. Josh is more like a place you go where they happens to be climbing, not a climbing place alone, if you get my drift. Locally (for me that's Los Angeles) nothing is more underrated by so many than the....wait why would I tell any of you that? =)


bandycoot


Apr 27, 2009, 9:17 AM
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sspssp wrote:
If it requires an "acquired taste" I think that is sufficient to label it overrated. I'm not claiming JT sucks, I've climbed there plenty in winter (shortest drive to something dry and somewhat warm). It is a cool place to wander around and there are a few dozen pretty good routes if you are willing to either get in line, or spend an hour doing the approach, or both.

The trick to Joshua Tree is climbing hard. It opens up the quality lines, and dissipates the crowds as soon as you pass 5.9. I did 30 routes on Saturday, all in highly impacted areas like Steve's Canyon, Hidden Valley Campground, and Real Hidden Valley, probably averaging three stars, and didn't have to wait in line once. All of the routes had 1-10 minute approaches, and they were mostly high quality. How did I not have to wait in line? Every one of them was 5.10 or harder! Wink

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