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Alphaboth
Apr 27, 2009, 8:43 PM
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I spent a week in the red this Spring. I LIKED it too, and it's obviously a larger attraction than Rumney. It's funny though niether are limestone, and I think most people would agree than limestone produces some of the best sport climbs. But the rock at Rumney has something very unique about it, i've never really found a place with a rock type similar to Rumney. Theres no hype about it, except it produced some good climbers, so theres the lesson, climb at Rumney more and you'll end up like Dave Graham.
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jamincan
Apr 27, 2009, 11:53 PM
Post #102 of 147
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What places are you thinking of? I'm not too familiar with climbing outside of North America, but the limestone crags I know in N. America seem to be generally over rated.
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Alphaboth
Apr 28, 2009, 1:18 AM
Post #103 of 147
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Sinks Canyon and areas around J-Hole, few places in Idaho, those are the only limestone i've been on. But places like Ceuse, Clark Mountain, Sharma seems to like the the limestone.
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joeforte
Apr 28, 2009, 1:24 AM
Post #104 of 147
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If Sharma likes it then I like it.
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climbsomething
Apr 28, 2009, 1:51 AM
Post #105 of 147
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pmyche wrote: Agree with SSP's JT assessment. Thousands of routes, many with minimal approach, arid weather and a short drive for millions of people make it an extremely popular area. Cochise Stronghold and Mount Lemmon have it all over the Monument, IMO.
The Stronghold is wicked, though. And I avoid MP trad.
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olive
Apr 28, 2009, 3:02 AM
Post #106 of 147
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cfnubbler wrote: Alphaboth wrote: Rumney is just is what it is, I don't think you can say it's over rated. I feel like people who don't sport climb don't talk about or hardly know of it. If you sport climb, it's rad, almost as rad as the red i'd say. Sure I can. Watch: "It's over rated". See? No problem. As good as the Red? I can only assume that you've either never been to the Red, or are trolling. Have you actually sport climbed anywhere other than Rumney? Look, I LIKE Rumney. It's a pleasant little collection of crags with a small handful of truly excellent walls. But from a national perspective, it's not even in the top 20 or 30 sport crags in either quality or quantity. I'm not trying to bag on it...I agree that it is what it is: A good little regional area. It's simply been hyped out of all proportion.
I agree with cfnubbler. Having climbed in both places and having actually enjoyed Rumney, I dont think it compares to the Red as a destination. The combination of quality and quantity at the red is just too amazing. Rumney definitely has an interesting type of rock that I think produces some cool climbs. But still.
the only problem with Red is that miquels is getting too crowded :))
(This post was edited by olive on Apr 28, 2009, 3:02 AM)
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olive
Apr 28, 2009, 3:05 AM
Post #107 of 147
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jamincan wrote: What places are you thinking of? I'm not too familiar with climbing outside of North America, but the limestone crags I know in N. America seem to be generally over rated.
Spain and France apparently have excellent limestone areas. I also climbed in superb limestone in Turkey (which is not in the radar at all, by the way).
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aerili
Apr 28, 2009, 3:38 AM
Post #108 of 147
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climbsomething wrote: pmyche wrote: Agree with SSP's JT assessment. Thousands of routes, many with minimal approach, arid weather and a short drive for millions of people make it an extremely popular area. Cochise Stronghold and Mount Lemmon have it all over the Monument, IMO. Eh. Lemmon has some good individual crags. Most locales are pretty scenic. But I wouldn't have climbed there if I didn't live in Tucson. The Stronghold is wicked, though. And I avoid MP trad.
Agreed. Mt Lemmon has some good individual routes scattered among its thousands, but in no way does it qualify as a "destination" the way Cochise does. And it is definitely not better than J Tree.
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vivalargo
Apr 28, 2009, 3:46 AM
Post #109 of 147
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One of the reasons Josh is "overrated" is that in the endless quest for new routes, many thousands of chossy face climbs were tossed up, climbs that are pretty much versions of the last choss pile. Get rid of the choss faces and the features like Imaginary Voyage, Aiguille de Josh, More Money than Funky, et al, are great. But Josh is/was mainly popular because it's handy to So Cal climbers neding a winter fix.
JL
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rockandlice
Apr 28, 2009, 12:58 PM
Post #110 of 147
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Alphaboth wrote: I spent a week in the red this Spring. I LIKED it too, and it's obviously a larger attraction than Rumney. It's funny though niether are limestone, and I think most people would agree than limestone produces some of the best sport climbs.
Alphaboth wrote: Sinks Canyon and areas around J-Hole, few places in Idaho, those are the only limestone i've been on. But places like Ceuse, Clark Mountain, Sharma seems to like the the limestone.
Say what!? Okay, so I've climbed sinks, and lived in Jackson for awhile, and I can't for the life of me understand why someone would rate these areas as better sport crags than the red.
Oh, nevermind, Sharma likes limestone, debate over. 
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Alphaboth
Apr 28, 2009, 1:21 PM
Post #111 of 147
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you know what they are a hell of a lot better cause the view is better
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rockandlice
Apr 28, 2009, 1:34 PM
Post #112 of 147
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Alphaboth wrote: you know what they are a hell of a lot better cause the view is better
If this thread was based on best views, I would have a whole different set of opinions. Although, you'd still have to define "view". The view at the red is the aesthetics of the lines for me. The view in jackson would be the snake and the tetons, the view at the new is both aesthtic lines and the surrounding gorge, etc.
I thought this was all about route quality as in the quality of the stone, movements, abundance, etc.
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camhead
Apr 28, 2009, 2:48 PM
Post #113 of 147
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Oh! Limestone versus Sandstone debate!
The Red is the best sport climbing in the US. That is all. Compared to European limestone, however, it does not have quite as many climbs in the 5.14b/c range and up. I am not sure if this is because of its rock being overly featured, or because of lack of interest in bolting hard routes, or a combination. However, I've discussed this with quite a few climbers who are stronger and better-traveled than me; they say that nearly every limestone crag in Spain or France has at least one or two .14+'s; the Red has ONE (Lucifer). This is the ONLY reason that people have to talk down on the quality of the Red.
So, in response to this thread:
1) You can diss the Red if you climb 5.14b or harder, and feel limited with the Red's route quantity
2) American limestone sucks. Even if you diss the Red, you can only do so vis á vis European limestone. Wild Iris, American Fork, Shelf Road, Rifle, VRG, are not even in the same fucking ballpark as the Red.
3) and why the hell does every picture I've seen of Rumney either involve a dihedral or a big fricking ledge below the route?
that is awl.
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CTclimbah
Apr 29, 2009, 1:00 AM
Post #114 of 147
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I'd stop relying on climbing rags to get your info. People that climb hard and come out of the north east (e.g. dave graham) are not great climbers because of hours logged in at rumney. it's a nice place...and affords a lot of climbs in a fairly compact area...and, if you want to climb 5.12's you have a bunch all on one wall.
however, seeing how places like shagg have better rock and more hard climbs...and is a place that dave has logged in plenty of hours at, i wouldn't be so quick to give rumney all the credit.
most strong climbers get some time in on the road. dave has pretty much made a lifestyle out of swiss granite and limestone in france and spain. even vasya who put up the new jaws is in part climbing at rumney because it's close to his school...not because it's the greatest crag.
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Johnny_Fang
Apr 29, 2009, 1:41 AM
Post #115 of 147
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i'm amazed no one has mentioned the obed or t-wall. southern climbers, represent.
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clausti
Apr 29, 2009, 1:47 AM
Post #116 of 147
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shut the fuck up.
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sungam
Apr 29, 2009, 3:00 AM
Post #117 of 147
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clausti wrote: shut the fuck up.
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reno
Apr 29, 2009, 2:12 PM
Post #118 of 147
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There's a reason nobody has mentioned them.
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dreday3000
Apr 29, 2009, 2:46 PM
Post #119 of 147
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In reply to: the only problem with Red is that miquels is getting too crowded :))
Miguels has been getting too crowded for the past 5 years. Try the campsite across the way. Their are lots of tourists agenerally they are are pretty quite.
The campsite is close enough you can walk to Miguels for Pizza.
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camhead
Apr 29, 2009, 3:02 PM
Post #120 of 147
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I'm amazed that nobody has mentioned Shelf Road. The place is incredible; way better than the Obed or Twall. Everyone should go there.
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clausti
Apr 29, 2009, 3:13 PM
Post #121 of 147
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you know, i didn't answer about most underrated crag the first time, but I've been thinking about it. i think all the stuff around jackson hole is pretty killer. i didn't really get to spend enough time there.
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granite_grrl
Apr 29, 2009, 3:42 PM
Post #122 of 147
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Alphaboth wrote: I spent a week in the red this Spring. I LIKED it too, and it's obviously a larger attraction than Rumney. It's funny though niether are limestone, and I think most people would agree than limestone produces some of the best sport climbs. But the rock at Rumney has something very unique about it, i've never really found a place with a rock type similar to Rumney. Theres no hype about it, except it produced some good climbers, so theres the lesson, climb at Rumney more and you'll end up like Dave Graham.
Over ratted: N.American limestone (not that you actually hear many people raving about it regardless).
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desertwanderer81
Apr 29, 2009, 3:59 PM
Post #123 of 147
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reno wrote: There's a reason nobody has mentioned them.
I avoid the south like a plague because I'm racist against southerners.
Why don't you like those areas?
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kachoong
Apr 29, 2009, 4:04 PM
Post #124 of 147
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desertwanderer81 wrote: reno wrote: There's a reason nobody has mentioned them. I avoid the south like a plague because I'm racist against southerners. Why don't you like those areas?
What do you have against Aussies? 
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desertwanderer81
Apr 29, 2009, 4:06 PM
Post #125 of 147
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kachoong wrote: desertwanderer81 wrote: reno wrote: There's a reason nobody has mentioned them. I avoid the south like a plague because I'm racist against southerners. Why don't you like those areas? What do you have against Aussies?
Never trust someone who's upside down!
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