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mushroom
Mar 23, 2009, 6:44 PM
Post #1 of 13
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Registered: Mar 10, 2007
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So I have two different buddies who might break me into big wall aid this summer. I was in the valley two summers back and I'm working on making it possible to spend the whole summer there this year. And I want to get up that big stone!
**Important** I graduate in May. I have health insurance until August and some cash to live and climb on. This is going to be a pretty bum summer so I'm trying to spend as little as as possible to get myself ready...
Question #1: I'm trying to figure out exactly what I need, in terms of personal gear. I have a free rack and a 60mx10.3 dynamic but I want to have the personal gear dialed in so that I can do a wall contingent on someone else having the serious wall gear like a haul bag, ledge, pins, et cetera. I've been a wall theorist for a year+ now and have read tons on the internet.com plus a couple books on wall climbing. Besides a plentiful supply of beer and whiskey for the guru, my stuff should include:
-comfy harness
-headlamp
-rain gear
-wall boots
-knee pads
-gloves
-wall spoon, knife
-sleeping bag
-sleeping pad
-double gear sling*
-wall hammer*
Am I missing any other stuff that I will personally need? I'm trying to pick your brains for stuff I may be forgetting that would make my life more miserable not to have. Also, this list doesn't include gear for ascending/cleaning, that's what this question is for:
Question #2a: Is an ascender and a croll enough in terms of rope ascending gear for cleaning aid? naturally, the back strap, daisy, and foot loop to go with them, but my question is do I really need two ascenders if I have both of these? I plan on have a grigri around too.
Question #2b: Is a grigri and a croll enough to clean aid with? I know I can ascend a hanging rope with this, but I've never dealt with things like cleaning aid traverses or busting over serious roofs. My experience is with caving, where I tend to use a croll and hand ascender. I don't own my own hand ascender and I'm trying to not have to buy one if I don't have to since I have a grigri and croll. But I've heard these tales of needing to move the ascender up above the next piece of gear...
Question #3: Breaking into aid: If I'm trying to do some easy aid I can use my buddy's aiders right? Do I need my own set(s) or are these easily handed off to the leader? I guess I need my own fifis since the length needs to be pretty dialed in. Do I need my own daisies or are these easily handed off to the leader too?
Holy moly I cant wait to be back in the valley. I hope yall get the chance to make it out there this summer too!
Peace, love, fingerlocks,
Nick
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kennoyce
Mar 23, 2009, 7:07 PM
Post #2 of 13
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Registered: Mar 6, 2001
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To start I just want you to know that I don't have tons of big wall experience, but I do have some. Personally I would say that you are going to have to shell out some cash on actual aid gear. I'm going to say that you need your own etriers, daisy chains, and two hand ascenders. I say etriers and daisy chains because it will save a lot of time if both people have their own, plus they are handy to have for jugging, and hauling. I am going to say that you want the 2 hand ascenders because as you get started you'll probably be doing some fairly low angle stuff, and the frog method of ascending gets much harder as the angle decreases. I to have done some caving, so I understand your methods, and while they will work, they will be much more time consuming on a wall than free hanging in a cave. Hope this helps, and good luck to you.
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c4c
Mar 23, 2009, 7:48 PM
Post #3 of 13
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Registered: Jun 18, 2006
Posts: 1279
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shameless plug --> I just listed a few aid/big wall items in the classified section.
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whiskeybullets
Mar 23, 2009, 8:07 PM
Post #4 of 13
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Registered: Jun 23, 2005
Posts: 76
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1. Chris Mac of Supertopo Fame has a helpfull web-page at
http://www.supertopo.com/...gareas/bigwalls.html that describes the necessary wall gear, both shared and personal.
2a/2b .I've used the frog(croll) system on walls in the past, and if you're just getting into aid, forget it. Sell the croll and pantin on ebay, buy two ascenders, and learn the Yosemite jugging/cleaning style. Also, the frog system is primarily used for ascending fixed lines, not for cleaning pitches. Having a croll keeping your chest in tight to the lead line would be a terrible restriction when cleaning pitches. Also, you HAVE to remove the ascender from the lead line to clean pro. Impossible with a croll. One handled ascender is necessary, two is smart.
3. You need ladders. Just two/person though. Some say 1 5 step and 1 6 step. I use 2 5 steps. The leader needs a pair to lead, and the follower needs a pair to jug the line. You might be able to get away with using tied webbing for the cleaning, but you want a real pair of ladders to lead.
That being said, please learn techniques in advance and not on the walls. It is disrespectful of other climbers to learn how to jug on the first pitch of the Nose. It's also a good way to make enemies in Camp 4.
Your posts make it obvious that your new to this aspect of the sport. Check out supertopo.com some more for advice on practice routes in the valley that will prepare you for big-walls. That way you're prepared and efficient. Look at some of the photos too. You can literally see lines of climbers on popular routes such as the Salathe. By learning in advance you'll have more fun, and so will the team behind you.
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salamanizer
Mar 23, 2009, 8:20 PM
Post #5 of 13
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Registered: Jul 3, 2004
Posts: 879
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Answer #1: Piss bottle - something sturdy with a wide mouth screw on top like one of those cheapo Nalgene bottles. You don't want to wake up in the middle of the night to find your piss bottles cap came undone or sprang a leak.
Belay seat- though not technically necessary, you'll want one if you're putting your way up a wall.
Adjustable Fifi- only necessary on steep terrain, you can pick one up in the mountain shop for 5 bucks.
Two aiders, two adjustable dasies and at least one jumar. Which brings us to question #2
Answer #2a: Yes then Not really. Yes you can clean with just one jumar and a Croll/Grigri, but it's a pain in the ass, more work and slow. Do you absolutely need two jumars to weasel your way to the top of the captain, absolutely not, it's been done with two prusiks for Hardings sake.
Answer #2b: Yes, you could, but you don't want too. Having something to grab onto when busting over roofs is a serious plus. Likewise, cleaning your buddys over cammed mank or bounce tested micro nuts on a seriously leaning traverse with a Grigri and a Croll would be a pain in your ass. Don't go there, it's hard enough already.
Answer #3 NO, how the hell is the leader going to hand them off to the follower to jug with? You need your own aiders (at least two, three's better) and you need your own dasies. You'll be using your dasies for clipping yourself in, jugging, leading etc... and they'll be girth hitched to your harness. Not something you're going to want to be undoing often. You need two dasies to lead with and at least one to follow with, two if you're using two jumars.
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mushroom
Mar 24, 2009, 1:47 AM
Post #6 of 13
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Registered: Mar 10, 2007
Posts: 230
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big thanks guys
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mushroom
Apr 21, 2009, 2:02 AM
Post #7 of 13
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Registered: Mar 10, 2007
Posts: 230
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Alright, my completed reading list has grown over the past few weeks, as has my knowledge of walls. I thank you all very much for your advice and worthwhile posts all over rc.com. I thank Dr. Piton for his wonderfully informative posts and inspiration to climb walls in style.
My knowledge has been increasing more and more as I've been reading on all sorts of topics like following aid traverses, docking, hauling, et cetera...
My questions is now, do you think this amount of gear will be sufficient for being able to find people to climb walls with? Hopefully I will be able to make it to the valley early enough to do a wall with my buddy who is loaded as far as racks and experience go but I may be delayed until after he makes his departure....
Personal shit I will bring to the valley:
-*Metolius El Cap haul bag
-*MSR whisperlite stove (is it possible to cook with one of these on the wall or should I really get a pocket rocket or something??)
-*grigri
-2 jugs
-basic
-2 pullies
-*minitraxion
-*adjustable fifi
-*2 homemade daisies
-2 homemade aiders from 2" webbing
-homemade belay seat
-gloves and extra gear sling
-60m dynamic
and of course my free rack
-metolius tcus 1-4
-camalots .5 - 3 (doubles in #1)
-tech friends 1.25, 1.5, 2, 2.5
-set of nuts with some bootied doubles (huevoes 3-13)
-like 30-40 free biners (enough to make 10 draws, plus rack each cam....)
-like 4 lockers
-cordelettes x2
-slings x10 or 12 or something
comments, notes, ya:
-there should be enough gear to build a 2:1 hauling ratchet
-another question: will be La Sportiva cirque pro's work as wall boots?
-stuff with * means that I haven't bought it yet, so it's sort of open to debate.
-I'm looking for input on the stove. I need something to cook on all summer and definitely like the whisperlite for its fuel consumption and I like cooking on it with it on mother earth. But a canister stove is another option....
-I may buy a 1.75 and 3 friend, as well as a #4 camalot in order to pimp out my free rack. Long free routes is my first project in the valley, but getting on a few walls is definitely a priority too
-man that'd be cool if I could get some of the smaller aliens
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majid_sabet
Apr 21, 2009, 5:29 AM
Post #8 of 13
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Registered: Dec 13, 2002
Posts: 8390
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where you headed with all these gear?
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mushroom
Apr 21, 2009, 5:34 AM
Post #9 of 13
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Registered: Mar 10, 2007
Posts: 230
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Yosemite. I've been there a bunch of times before but I'mt ryign to make it out there for the summer. I'm trying to do some grade VI aid and grade V free.
My aspirations are all single day free routes though, but long long free routes...
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majid_sabet
Apr 21, 2009, 5:54 AM
Post #10 of 13
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Registered: Dec 13, 2002
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mushroom wrote: Yosemite. I've been there a bunch of times before but I'mt ryign to make it out there for the summer. I'm trying to do some grade VI aid and grade V free. My aspirations are all single day free routes though, but long long free routes...
ok, just becareful
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mawk
May 6, 2009, 6:20 PM
Post #11 of 13
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Registered: Apr 3, 2007
Posts: 5
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-SuperGlue, put it on your cut, cracked and bleeding fingers, they'll love it.
-Ibuprofen
-personal water bottle, rigged with a tether, keep it with you at all times.
-backup headlamp, one of them small, lightweight jobs.
-Duct tape, get the good (as in expensive) stuff.
#2b. I think you'll find a grigri and handled ascender to be just the ticket for cleaning. If you really want to go in style, have a DMM revolver pre-rigged with a small webbing loop. Attach this to the handled ascender and run the rope through the revolver. Pull down on the rope as you move up, this will automatically feed the rope through the grigri avoiding the ackward motion of pulling up on the rope to pass it through the grigri.
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wallrat
May 11, 2009, 1:33 AM
Post #12 of 13
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Registered: Nov 28, 2002
Posts: 155
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Dude, I'm certainly not the best wallie in here, but if you'ld like to call me I can give you any knowledge I have. Frankly I'm too damned lazy to type it out. But I'd be happy to share what I know. Good luck up there. (619)228-5871. Gene.
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summerprophet
May 11, 2009, 6:20 PM
Post #13 of 13
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Registered: Jan 17, 2004
Posts: 764
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mushroom wrote: -another question: will be La Sportiva cirque pro's work as wall boots?
NOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!!
From Brand new to blown out in 4 pitches on the nose. Seek other options young grasshopper, OR empty your local shop of all their SeamSealer.
Canister stoves are the only thing I would take on a wall. Leave the whisperlite on the ground.
Don't forget sunscreen, chapstick and glasses.
Mini Traxion is far less usefull on a wall than the Protraxion
Bag Wall Bivy bag seriously recommended.
Toss me a line if you want more beta, I have spent 4 or 5 summers in the valley, and have done the majority of routes there within my ability.
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