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rockfax
May 7, 2009, 11:15 AM
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There is a wonderful feeling of freedom when you can run it out above gear, climbing as hard as you can, totally consumed by the moves.
Some of us can do that, but many of us can't. Often it is not because we can't do the moves but it's because we are frightened of falling.
This article and video explore Clip-Drop Technique. It may help you become comfortable with the thought and experience of falling off.
Watch the VIDEO at http://www.ukclimbing.com/...les/page.php?id=1838
Hope it is of use.
Mick Ryan
UKClimbing.com
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mrswix
May 7, 2009, 2:52 PM
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interesting. might have to try it.
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k.l.k
May 7, 2009, 3:18 PM
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mrswix wrote: interesting. might have to try it.
Yeah, just don't try it on sketchy cams on low-angle ledgy terrain.
If you're going to practice lead falls, be sure to fall the recs in the article: Overhanging sport or gym terrain with bomb gear, and a good belayer that you trust.
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cracklover
May 7, 2009, 3:36 PM
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It is interesting. Unfortunately, for climbers like me with not nearly enough time even for the training and climbing we want to do already, this may not be a good use of time.
But if that situation ever changes, I'll give it a shot.
Nice idea, thanks for sharing!
GO
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fresh
May 7, 2009, 3:48 PM
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personally, I think the ability to perform under stress is at least as valuable as physical strength. it's just another form of training. if you can train yourself to be mentally relaxed at all times, you'll be a much more efficient climber. but if climbing above gear isn't a weakness then that's different.
I already do a form of this whenever I feel I'm generally getting the willies. climb above clip, take a fall that doesn't scare me. climb higher, repeat. and so on until I reach the next clip. eventually 20 foot falls are no big deal. there'll always be some stress, but I find climbing through stress to be the most rewarding part of climbing so I'm ok with that.
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johnwesely
May 7, 2009, 4:26 PM
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Sounds like a good way to take the stretch out of a rope.
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lena_chita
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May 7, 2009, 5:31 PM
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Good explanation of how to practice falling, starting with small toprope falls and progressing to lead falls. It can be useful for a relatively new leader.
I personally think that it is of relatively little use...
I am not afraid of deliberate controlled safe practice falls. It's the out-of-control falls in the do-not-fall situation that scare me, LOL. And for THAT, the practice falls are useless.
I have taken more falls than I can remember while leading, though only a small handful, maybe a dozen, were the true no-warning falls... the rest of them were deliberate falls where I had made the decision to let go, usually with the belayer knowing that I was coming off.
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nattfodd
May 7, 2009, 5:56 PM
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I am not sure that taking systematic falls after clipping is necessary, but I know that my level of leading increased tremendously in one half-hour a couple of months back: that's when someone from the gym, an experienced belayer, made me climb high above my gear on a safe route and just let go. With rope stretch, I ended up falling a good 15-20ft. I did it just twice, but you could really see the difference in my climbing just afterwards, especially on roof climbing, where you need to do big scary dynamic moves above your gear, but falls are inconsequential.
I also have a mild fear of heights, and I noticed that I am much more able to keep my head level now that I have been leading for a while.
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fitzontherocks
May 7, 2009, 6:19 PM
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Cool video and technique. And website. Makes me think of switch my bookmarks from RC.com to UKC.
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kachoong
May 7, 2009, 6:39 PM
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That could certainly give the rope a bit of a pounding over time given that it doesn't get much time to relax between constant lead falls.
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seatbeltpants
May 7, 2009, 8:33 PM
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fitzontherocks wrote: Cool video and technique. And website. Makes me think of switch my bookmarks from RC.com to UKC.
BLASPHEMER!
(though ukclimbing is a cool site, so i might join you...)
steve
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rtwilli4
May 7, 2009, 9:59 PM
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That is a waste of time and money. 3 meters above your gear is not "climbing high above your gear." And if you actually do climb "high above your gear" you should be scared. You aren't supposed to take the fear out of climbing... that's the whole fucking point! What you should be doing, is recognizing that you are scared, and trying to figure out how to turn it into efficient climbing.
Flame away.
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fitzontherocks
May 7, 2009, 10:08 PM
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rtwilli4 wrote: That is a waste of time and money. 3 meters above your gear is not "climbing high above your gear." And if you actually do climb "high above your gear" you should be scared. You aren't supposed to take the fear out of climbing... that's the whole fucking point! What you should be doing, is recognizing that you are scared, and trying to figure out how to turn it into efficient climbing. Flame away.
What money? And the Brit said exactly what you're saying-- it's about learning to MANAGE your fear.
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spikeddem
May 7, 2009, 10:35 PM
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Do it a split second before placing the rope in the draw--like the baller woman did once--for truly ballin' results.
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rtwilli4
May 7, 2009, 10:55 PM
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fitzontherocks wrote: rtwilli4 wrote: That is a waste of time and money. 3 meters above your gear is not "climbing high above your gear." And if you actually do climb "high above your gear" you should be scared. You aren't supposed to take the fear out of climbing... that's the whole fucking point! What you should be doing, is recognizing that you are scared, and trying to figure out how to turn it into efficient climbing. Flame away. What money? And the Brit said exactly what you're saying-- it's about learning to MANAGE your fear.
(This post was edited by rtwilli4 on May 8, 2009, 4:10 AM)
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seatbeltpants
May 8, 2009, 12:12 AM
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fitzontherocks wrote: rtwilli4 wrote: That is a waste of time and money. 3 meters above your gear is not "climbing high above your gear." And if you actually do climb "high above your gear" you should be scared. You aren't supposed to take the fear out of climbing... that's the whole fucking point! What you should be doing, is recognizing that you are scared, and trying to figure out how to turn it into efficient climbing. Flame away. What money? And the Brit said exactly what you're saying-- it's about learning to MANAGE your fear.
dude, you might be rich, but replacing draws every time i fall on them gets too expensive for me to take lightly - and i'm not risking microfractures.
steve
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zxcv
May 8, 2009, 2:08 AM
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I think I’m with lean-chit and rtwilli4 on this: the “clip-drop” technique appears useful if your primary fear is the act of falling itself rather than the potential consequences of a fall.
I am rarely afraid of falling itself. I am, however, often very afraid of hitting a ledge, ripping poor gear, or just uneasy about being run-out. I do not see how the suggested technique does anything to help someone assess the potential risks of a fall and therefore recognize when you sure as hell should be scared and when you should not.
They assume that the consequences of the falls are not problematic, thus making the fear of the fall irrational. Perhaps if you consistently find yourself in a safe-fall zone with excellent gear and cannot commit to a move due to a fear of a fall then this would help, but I wonder if the majority of us have that problem or if we can accept the sensation of falling and rather fear the consequences that may occur when the fall abruptly ends.
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bill413
May 8, 2009, 12:46 PM
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seatbeltpants wrote: lena_chita wrote: I am not afraid of deliberate controlled safe practice falls. It's the out-of-control falls in the do-not-fall situation that scare me, LOL. And for THAT, the practice falls are useless. exactly the same for me - i'm reasonably happy dropping from a hold, but falling from that same hold without being in control puts the shits up me. i guess the answer to this is to practice falling in out of control situations... maybe have someone loosen a few holds at the gym so that they pop off when you hit them  steve
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sdonis
May 8, 2009, 1:25 PM
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Maybe they could put some trees and some dirt in the building, so they could start train for being in the scary outdoors...
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seatbeltpants
May 8, 2009, 9:27 PM
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bill413 wrote: seatbeltpants wrote: lena_chita wrote: I am not afraid of deliberate controlled safe practice falls. It's the out-of-control falls in the do-not-fall situation that scare me, LOL. And for THAT, the practice falls are useless. exactly the same for me - i'm reasonably happy dropping from a hold, but falling from that same hold without being in control puts the shits up me. i guess the answer to this is to practice falling in out of control situations... maybe have someone loosen a few holds at the gym so that they pop off when you hit them steve You mean they aren't that way already?
good point - and here was me thinking that spinners were a problem, not a training aid.
steve
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rockfax
May 9, 2009, 6:35 AM
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zxcv wrote: I do not see how the suggested technique does anything to help someone assess the potential risks of a fall and therefore recognize when you sure as hell should be scared and when you should not. They assume that the consequences of the falls are not problematic, thus making the fear of the fall irrational.
There is no assumption whatsoever and that is stated in the article. All involved in this article/video are experienced climbers with many years experience.
It says:
"Don't do Clip-Drop Technique on trad routes. It is dangerous and will also erode nut placements. The new found mental strength that results from doing Clip drop technique may help you when climbing trad routes where you have to place your own gear. You may be more confident and may be able to relax more which will enable you to climb better and focus on rational fears - like gear placement, gear quality and the potential danger if you fall. Falling on trad routes is a totally different proposition to falling on bolted sport routes. The gear you place maybe marginal and the fall line potentially dangerous. Often on single pitch trad routes, even when high up the route, there may only be one piece of gear between you and the floor - will it hold?"
And that message is repeated in the article in several places.
Mick
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zxcv
May 9, 2009, 7:55 AM
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I did not mean that they assume all falls are safe, only that the practice as outlined assumes that the falls taken will be safe, otherwise the fear is not irrational as your quote indicates.
The stated purpose of the article is to help those who “are frightened of falling”, hence: “If you are okay climbing above your gear near your physical limit, this article and video isn't for you.” (their emphasis)
-“all too often climbers fail on a well-protected route because they lack the necessary mental strength to climb above protection. Many of us down-climb, grab quickdraws or sit on gear when faced with challenging moves or run-outs”
-“You may not trust your belayer to hold you, or you may have an irrational fear that your rope will snap. All these things can be overcome.” The highlighted section entitled “The Mind” by Adrian Berry further discusses overcoming irrational fears.
The article does state that “You should have complete confidence in all your gear”, and they give advice concerning practicing falls on steep routes and letting the rope rest, etc. In other words, the climber is to assess the fall as safe and overcome the irrational fear of taking that safe fall. Again, the emphasis is overcoming an irrational fear of the sensation or idea of falling. To a degree, I can understand that fear as I hate the ‘butterflies-in-your-stomach’ feeling that accompanies falls (and those damn rollercoasters).
However, outside of a gym setting, the ability to assess a fall as safe is hardly a given (see the recent Spokane accident as evidence). If you read my initial post you will see that I was simply stating that the real issue for me and those I climb with is fostering the ability to properly assess when it really is okay to fall and when it is unacceptably risky. However, “perhaps if you consistently find yourself in a safe-fall zone with excellent gear and cannot commit to a move due to a fear of a fall then this would help”
(quoting my first post)
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rockfax
May 9, 2009, 1:51 PM
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zxcv wrote: I was simply stating that the real issue for me and those I climb with is fostering the ability to properly assess when it really is okay to fall and when it is unacceptably risky.)
And the best way to learn that is lead outdoors as much as possible.
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saxfiend
May 10, 2009, 3:50 AM
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This is interesting and probably useful for its intended purpose, but it isn't anything new, really. Very similar to the methods used in a more comprehensive context by Arno Ilgner in his mental training workshops.
It also appears that the belayers in the video seem to regard standing away from the wall and getting jerked into it as a technique for giving a soft catch. I think there's better and more controllable methods for soft catches.
JL
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