Someone to give me the money to pay off my student loans. Oh, but then I'd still need money to travel, buy food, lift tickets, equipment, clothing, etc. I could get hurt pretty easily skiing or climbing, so I'll need some health insurance too. Eventually all of this stuff will probably have me pretty worn down, and I'll need some sort of "retirement fund" to live off of. I guess what I really need is some sort of trust fund. Are you volunteering?

And yeah, I do have a "professional" career job.

I'm sure I could make it back into the industry, especially if I spent some time keeping up to date. Depends how long of a dirtbagging timespan we're talkin though.

I really want to be out of debt and have some safety net money in the bank or invested before I go and make any sort of decision like that.

It's a shame that the sabbatical concept isn't more embraced in the states. Even being able to take 2 months off out of the year without pay would be a huge improvement.

Now, then, would a 5.14 trad climber have an easier time with 5.14 sport, or would a 5.14 sport climber have an easier time on 5.14 trad?

But (gym climbing) is not rock climbing. It's training.

(***)

Nothing wrong with doing Tae-bo. Just don't think it's going to improve your defensive skills.

Isn't this where your analogy fails?

Arrrrgggghhhhhhh!

The analogy failed betwixt your ears mate,

Sheesh.

DMT

Brilliant! I certainly can't argue with your logic.

I don't know why I post on here.

Here's the point: Gym climbing is not the same as outdoor rock climbing. About the only things they share in common are harnesses, shoes, a rope, and a belay device.

Otherwise, they're wildly different, and just because you're a good gym climber doesn't mean you're destined to do well outdoors.

Two. Different. Animals.

nico favresse had some trouble on an E8 (maybe E9?) in "on sight."

Funny then that so many top climbers from previous generations made bachar ladders, campus boards, and woodies (e.g. "gyms") to help them send their projects.

Funny then that so many top climbers from previous generations made bachar ladders, campus boards, and woodies (e.g. "gyms") to help them send their projects. I get that people don't like the modern gym scene, but demoting the benefits of the training is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. There are a lot of people applying strength and technique learned in the gym and on sport routes to trad goals with great success.

In sum, I fully appreciate the ethos of trad climbing and the oft-times elitist stance of trad as a purer form of climbing. But just as often, this philosophy is simply a smoke screen for weakness. For example, you (generic you, not anyone on this site or anyone specific) are very comfortable climbing a 5.9 trad crack but you can't climb the crux of a 5.10 sport/gym route. Rather than training and improving, you slag on sport/gym climbing as a whole as a bastardized form of climbing. I have no problem with the real "elite" claiming that trad is pure, it's the faux elite that are just propping up their egos that get annoying.

erm... E8 is the hardest route to be onsighted...

As for Dave... He's just t3h fukin' awesome, isn't he?

But if you think that driving to the gym, pulling your harness from the trunk, walking 50 feet to the door, climbing in an air-conditioned building with a water fountain on the wall and 9-1-1 just a phone call away is the same as a 9 mile ski approach at 3:00 am carrying a 30 pound pack to a 700 foot snow and ice climb that starts at 11,000 feet, then I've got a bridge for sale you might be interested in.

Forget grades for a second. My local gym in Vancouver is smelly, covered in chalk dust, packed with socializing yuppies and university students, hot and humid etc. I wonder why someone that could climb outside whenever they want would avoid the gym?!

You can get just as strong climbing outside and it is more sport specific to the type of rock you climb because it IS the rock you climb. There is no climbing gym in Squamish and the locals are a hell of a lot stronger than I am without ever touching plastic.

This 'you can't get strong if you don't climb in a gym' argument is weak.

I don't think I ever changed my opinion onceahardman. If anything, I think your continuing to refer to gym climbing as "tae bo" as if to refer to it as some girly pursuit for sissies just shows what I'm talking about. Why the constant need for these comparisons, especially trad to sport?

What's the obsession with this this situation where you're outdoors climbing being a manly man placing nuts, and cocky Joe Gym Rat shows up, gets on his PA speaker, and announces, "Sup bros, 5.13 gym climber here, if you want to see some gnarly climbing, just watch me". Then he gets shut down on a 5.9, and you come over and laugh at him or something?

I don't f***ing get it. Of course there are people that overestimate their abilities. Who cares. I guess the fact that a few of those people exist means that anyone who climbs in a gym shares the same mindset? Get over yourself.

Certainly nobody has denied the value and worth in training in the gym. In fact, I think OAHM said as much four, perhaps five times.

But if you think that driving to the gym, pulling your harness from the trunk, walking 50 feet to the door, climbing in an air-conditioned building with a water fountain on the wall and 9-1-1 just a phone call away is the same as a 9 mile ski approach at 3:00 am carrying a 30 pound pack to a 700 foot snow and ice climb that starts at 11,000 feet, then I've got a bridge for sale you might be interested in.

Isn't this where your analogy fails? It's internally inconsistent. Gym climbing is training for real climbing, but Tae Bo is not training for self defense. So gym climbing and Tae Bo are not analogous.

Im curious what you tell your lady or your friends when you go the gym. Do you say?
1-"Honey Im going rock climbing."
2-"Im heading to the gym for a while"
3-"Im going to climb at the gym"

Now #3 is the best, but you are not going "rock climbing" Its two different things. rock climbing is to rc.com and gym climbing is to (or should be) gc.com.

Finally, I don't think there's anything that I've posted that implies a disagreement with OAHM, at most I am only suggesting a more refined way to appreciate the analogy.

I get that people don't like the modern gym scene, but demoting the benefits of the training is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.