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AntinJ


Jun 1, 2009, 2:05 PM
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GELSA 5.4 ~ Logistical Beta Needed  (North_America: United_States: New_York: Upstate: The_Gunks: Near_Trapps)
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I have been to the Trapps several times, however thought tomorrow might be a great opportunity to travel over to the Nears and finally add Gelsa to my tick list. I am also bringing a multipitch first-timer and thought this would be a great route to introduce him to the Gunks. I will try to pick up the William's Nears guide from Rock & Snow tomorrow morning, but just in case - I'd love some logistical beta (bolts, rap stations, route finding issues, etc…)

Thank for the help!

-Jason


hansundfritz


Jun 1, 2009, 2:39 PM
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Re: [AntinJ] GELSA 5.4 ~ Logistical Beta Needed [In reply to]
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Antin:

I've done Gelsa 3 or 4 times, but not recently, so you can take my comments FWIW.

P1: Up and left. Tree belay (?).

P2: There seem to be two approaches to this pitch -- either UP then left or LEFT then up. Aiming for small belay alcove at the base of a large, right-facing inside corner. Gear belay in small alcove. I'd love to see what Williams says about this pitch in the new Nears guide. The old Red Dick was kind of vague on this pitch.

P3: Obvious line diagonals up and right on large holds under the overhanging corner. Super enjoyable with abundant protection. Take pictures here.

Descent: Walk off to top of ridge/Camp Slime area. No bolts or rap stations when I did route -- although there might be now. Who knows? You might also look through the forums on Gunks.com.


sween345


Jun 1, 2009, 2:46 PM
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Re: [AntinJ] GELSA 5.4 ~ Logistical Beta Needed [In reply to]
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  Jason,

This might be of some use http://mountainproject.com/...ear_trapps/105799482


Jim


AntinJ


Jun 1, 2009, 3:11 PM
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Re: [sween345] GELSA 5.4 ~ Logistical Beta Needed [In reply to]
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Good stuff guys! Thanks for the prompt responses; I already looked over RC, MP and google for the obvious stuff, but I wanted a little more information before abandoning my comfort zone (The Trapps) for the road less traveled. Thanks for the help!

-J


gblauer
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Jun 1, 2009, 3:25 PM
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Re: [AntinJ] GELSA 5.4 ~ Logistical Beta Needed [In reply to]
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You will need to build a gear anchor on P1, the tree is really dead. I would sling the tree only as part of an overall anchor.

There is a traverse on P1, be sure to protect your 2nd, but beware of sinking your cams too deep in the crack. I have retrieved quite a bit of gear on this climb; the cams tend to walk due to the tension on the rope.

There are two ways to do p2; easy and hard. If you go straight up over the roof, and diagonal left into the corner you will find thin gear.

If you continue to traverse left until you are below the corner, then go up, you will find much more gear.

P3 is the money pitch. The climbing is stellar, it's easy, but, you will likely find yourself running it out as there are some gaps in gear placements (large horizontals, too big for standard rack).

I would walk off.

Another fun climb in the nears:
Grease Gun Groove
Disneyland (gear anchor at the end of P1)


AntinJ


Jun 1, 2009, 3:39 PM
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Re: [gblauer] GELSA 5.4 ~ Logistical Beta Needed [In reply to]
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Gail - thanks for the info. That's exactly what I was looking for. Also, I've had 3 Nears climbs written on my note pad since last night. Gelsa, Disneyalnd and GGG. Hahah I guess I have to do them now!

Thanks again,

J


gblauer
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Jun 1, 2009, 3:49 PM
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Re: [AntinJ] GELSA 5.4 ~ Logistical Beta Needed [In reply to]
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If you are using doubles, you can do Disneyland in 1 pitch. If you using a single rope, then I would make my anchor above the little alcove and go into the open book. There are some decent pitons and some great cracks for gear.

I think there is a tree at the top of GGG (p1). We did P2, but it was kind of dirty. LIttle bit of gardening and you will be fine. You can walk off GGG and Disneyland.


marc801


Jun 1, 2009, 3:53 PM
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Re: [AntinJ] GELSA 5.4 ~ Logistical Beta Needed [In reply to]
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One other thing - that traverse straight left on P1 is only about 20 or 30 feet above the ground - do not keep going up on increasingly difficult terrain as many have mistakenly done. Don't go above the level of the tree on the small ledge 20' to your left - just walk over to it - but as someone mentioned, make sure you place a good piece just before heading left, otherwise the second can hit the ground if they somehow manage to fall off the only difficult move on the pitch (gaining the ledge). IOW, set your pro so the second can clean it after the move onto the ledge.


bill413


Jun 1, 2009, 3:54 PM
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Re: [gblauer] GELSA 5.4 ~ Logistical Beta Needed [In reply to]
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Gelsa pitch 3 is one of the wildest pitches for its grade. Absolutely great choice.
I really like Disneyland also.

Good ticklist - all doable in the day (assuming things work well) Smile


marc801


Jun 1, 2009, 3:56 PM
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Re: [gblauer] GELSA 5.4 ~ Logistical Beta Needed [In reply to]
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gblauer wrote:
If you are using doubles, you can do Disneyland in 1 pitch.
But it's not a good idea and your second will probably hate you.
Communication sucks, requiring lots of screaming.
With the rope stretch involved, the second can hit a ledge if not the ground if they fall off one of the crux moves that's relatively low on P1. (I know - I helped evac a second with a badly sprained ankle thanks to this stunt. Remarkably similar to an incident on Drunkard's Delight, when the leader went to the GT ledge in one pitch. (The crux moves on DD are about 8 - 10 feet off the ground.) That one was indeed a broken ankle. I was "lucky" enough to be there for that one as well.)


(This post was edited by marc801 on Jun 1, 2009, 4:01 PM)


gblauer
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Jun 1, 2009, 4:05 PM
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Re: [marc801] GELSA 5.4 ~ Logistical Beta Needed [In reply to]
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Not to derail the thread, but, I have assisted in a similar accident on the 2nd pitch of arrow. The second fell off right at the opening moves and had an open tib/fib fracture.

I also witnessed it first hand on Double Crack, another climb where the crux is right off the deck. In this case, the climber sat back to take a rest and went straight to her tail bone with a sickening "thud". Rope stretch is a b*#ch.


(This post was edited by gblauer on Jun 1, 2009, 4:05 PM)


marc801


Jun 1, 2009, 4:27 PM
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Re: [gblauer] GELSA 5.4 ~ Logistical Beta Needed [In reply to]
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Yep, there are a number of routes with hard moves close to the ground. Usually, sufficient care can be taken to keep the second safe, but this can become exponentially difficult or negated if the leader decides to link two or more pitches simply because modern long ropes enable doing so. Sure, a lot of the classic Gunks routes were put up with 150' or even 120' ropes, but sometimes only a 50' pitch makes sense or is the smart thing to do.


coolcat83


Jun 1, 2009, 4:54 PM
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Re: [gblauer] GELSA 5.4 ~ Logistical Beta Needed [In reply to]
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gblauer wrote:
There is a traverse on P1, be sure to protect your 2nd

i second that one, Gelsa was my first follow on a gunks multipitch and i got a little high by the bulge leading to the start of the traverse, long story short, leader didn't protect and I took a nice pendulum whip for almost 20feet, ending up hanging upside down when my feet hit and with rope stretch i sat down...and under an overhang...gave me some trust in gear thoughTongue, and some motivation to hone my downclimbing skills


bill413


Jun 1, 2009, 5:04 PM
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Re: [marc801] GELSA 5.4 ~ Logistical Beta Needed [In reply to]
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marc801 wrote:
Yep, there are a number of routes with hard moves close to the ground.
Man, talk about poor design!

In reply to:
Usually, sufficient care can be taken to keep the second safe, but this can become exponentially difficult or negated if the leader decides to link two or more pitches simply because modern long ropes enable doing so. Sure, a lot of the classic Gunks routes were put up with 150' or even 120' ropes, but sometimes only a 50' pitch makes sense or is the smart thing to do.
Very, very true. When leading we (or at least I) tend to forget what rope stretch can do to our partner.


Gmburns2000


Jun 1, 2009, 5:46 PM
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Re: [AntinJ] GELSA 5.4 ~ Logistical Beta Needed [In reply to]
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Hey Antin,

I've just posted a "guidebook" of that route (along with a few others). Hopefully it will help.


granite_grrl


Jun 1, 2009, 6:04 PM
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Re: [marc801] GELSA 5.4 ~ Logistical Beta Needed [In reply to]
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marc801 wrote:
gblauer wrote:
If you are using doubles, you can do Disneyland in 1 pitch.
But it's not a good idea and your second will probably hate you.
Communication sucks, requiring lots of screaming.
With the rope stretch involved, the second can hit a ledge if not the ground if they fall off one of the crux moves that's relatively low on P1. (I know - I helped evac a second with a badly sprained ankle thanks to this stunt. Remarkably similar to an incident on Drunkard's Delight, when the leader went to the GT ledge in one pitch. (The crux moves on DD are about 8 - 10 feet off the ground.) That one was indeed a broken ankle. I was "lucky" enough to be there for that one as well.)
We did DL last weekend in one pitch with a single rope. The difference was the climb was quite a bit under the max level if both climbers. The leader placed very little gear and it was very unlikely that the second was going to fall.


fjclimbsrocks


Jun 1, 2009, 6:52 PM
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Re: [granite_grrl] GELSA 5.4 ~ Logistical Beta Needed [In reply to]
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granite_grrl wrote:
marc801 wrote:
gblauer wrote:
If you are using doubles, you can do Disneyland in 1 pitch.
But it's not a good idea and your second will probably hate you.
Communication sucks, requiring lots of screaming.
With the rope stretch involved, the second can hit a ledge if not the ground if they fall off one of the crux moves that's relatively low on P1. (I know - I helped evac a second with a badly sprained ankle thanks to this stunt. Remarkably similar to an incident on Drunkard's Delight, when the leader went to the GT ledge in one pitch. (The crux moves on DD are about 8 - 10 feet off the ground.) That one was indeed a broken ankle. I was "lucky" enough to be there for that one as well.)
We did DL last weekend in one pitch with a single rope. The difference was the climb was quite a bit under the max level if both climbers. The leader placed very little gear and it was very unlikely that the second was going to fall.

A four foot runner placed above the first belay and another at the second pitch traverse should eliminate most of the drag. Rope tugs instead of rope calls are a must.

~Jared


smallclimber


Jun 1, 2009, 7:28 PM
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Re: [AntinJ] GELSA 5.4 ~ Logistical Beta Needed [In reply to]
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Another fun and low grade multi pitch in the Nears is Yum Yum Yab Yum. The worlds wildest looking 5.3 traverse on the final pitch with many a beginner epic to tell.....


gblauer
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Jun 1, 2009, 7:31 PM
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ummm...I really thought this was a tough climb. I must have been way off route, but, I could not find gear for the first 20 feet of p2. I honestly thought that that day was going to be "my time".

Not sure I would recommend this climb.

In the Trapps, I would highly recommend Ursula.


saxfiend


Jun 1, 2009, 8:07 PM
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Re: [AntinJ] GELSA 5.4 ~ Logistical Beta Needed [In reply to]
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AntinJ wrote:
I will try to pick up the William's Nears guide from Rock & Snow tomorrow morning, but just in case - I'd love some logistical beta (bolts, rap stations, route finding issues, etc…)
Having the guidebook will help, but between the advice here and the information in the Mountain Project entry, I don't think you'll have any problems. When I led it the first time, I didn't have any route-finding issues at all. There's no bolts -- gear anchors all the way. As others have said, walk-off is the best option. There's a good descent gully before you get back to the road; that'll save you a little backtracking to get to your packs at the base.

Gelsa is an outstanding route, you and your friend will love it. Like gblauer said, P3 is the money pitch, but I thought there were plenty of gear placements and don't remember running it out at all.

JL


marc801


Jun 1, 2009, 10:25 PM
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Re: [granite_grrl] GELSA 5.4 ~ Logistical Beta Needed [In reply to]
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granite_grrl wrote:
We did DL last weekend in one pitch with a single rope. The difference was the climb was quite a bit under the max level if both climbers. The leader placed very little gear and it was very unlikely that the second was going to fall.
Exactly. But in this thread, we have an OP who sees doing a route in the Nears as "leaving his comfort zone of the Trapps" and a big adventure and has a second who is doing his/her first multi-pitch climb. What's more, he wants detailed beta - after already doing research - on a pretty straight forward and obvious line. For them I wouldn't recommend things like Disney in a single pitch.


(This post was edited by marc801 on Jun 1, 2009, 10:27 PM)


bill413


Jun 2, 2009, 5:53 AM
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For me, part of the fun of Disneyland is sitting in that little cockpit & looking at the trees. Smile


Gmburns2000


Jun 2, 2009, 6:55 AM
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bill413 wrote:
For me, part of the fun of Disneyland is sitting in that little cockpit & looking at the trees. Smile

For me, part of the unfun of Disneyland is getting myself so that I can sit in that stupid little cockpit that overlooks the trees. Crazy


hansundfritz


Jun 2, 2009, 2:55 PM
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bill413 wrote:
For me, part of the fun of Disneyland is sitting in that little cockpit & looking at the trees. Smile

Exactly. Great spot. I can clearly recall seconding that pitch and gaining that little ledge. My partner as grinning his face off. It was our first Gunks 5.6. Awesome situation.


sethg


Jun 2, 2009, 6:00 PM
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Personally I think Gelsa might be a touch overrated. The last pitch is great, the first two not so much. But I think you'd have to be off-route to think they were scary.

Another one you might consider is Layback (5.5), the oldest route in the Nears. The first pitch starts with a fun chimney, and then in my opinion the crux of the route is the next few thin moves up to the namesake layback section, which is over in just a couple steps. Nicely varied. And then the second pitch is just 5.3 and it's over quickly but it features great exposure for the grade and a peerless photo opportunity.

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