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angry
Jun 16, 2009, 8:17 PM
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So we're not all good at the same thing. Me, I'm a crack climber.
Within the genre of cracks, steep splitters and endless splitters in the finger size are my strength, closely followed by ring locks, and I'm slightly better than average OW skills.
The places I've sent hard cracks at are Indian Creek, Vedauwoo, South Platte, and one in the RRG, aside from the Creek, none of these places are known to be soft. I've gotten one as hard as 13a, gone one fall on about a 5 other 13a's, and sent about a dozen 12c's and d's. This is redpointing, placing the gear on lead.
For sport, however much easier it seems, my hardest redpoints are a couple reputably soft 12c's. Of the 3 12c sport routes I've done, one is a one move wonder, another had a key toehook that noone uses (IE, it was probably easier for me than everyone else) and the last has a sequence that didn't get discovered until long after the route went up (it'd get downrated if more people climbed it).
Lately I've been getting on a 13a sport route. It's not like those 12c's, it's longish, very overhung, and powerful with no rests. I've got to say, I don't feel like I've got a chance. I'm trying like crazy because I want the fitness that comes from sending a route like this. To be perfectly honest though, I doubt I'll ever make it. To add insult to injury though, this route has been sent by dozens of people who aren't even close to climbing the grade, frequently gets downrated, and is considered the 13a that 11+ climbers can do. It's a bit demoralizing.
So there you have it, I suck if I have to grab holds.
What is the style you're strongest at and what is the style you're weakest at?
Also, I'm more scared to whip on a bolt than an alien. Seriously.
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caughtinside
Jun 16, 2009, 8:31 PM
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Goliath?
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petsfed
Jun 16, 2009, 9:07 PM
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I'm not saying that I'm climbing hard enough to really have a solid understanding of what I'm good at, but I do know that I'm terrible at crimpy faces, and face climbing in general. I understand slopers, but I really prefer crack climbing because there's that illusion of security at all times. Even if its a crap jam, its still a jam. The absence of holds bothers me a lot.
I seem to have a pretty good understanding of footwork though, and my lack of strength means that I do a lot better on more technical rather than really powerful stuff.
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caughtinside
Jun 16, 2009, 9:38 PM
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angry wrote: caughtinside wrote: Goliath? David?
just trying to guess the fluffy .13 that .11 climbers can send and downrate.
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angry
Jun 16, 2009, 9:41 PM
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caughtinside wrote: angry wrote: caughtinside wrote: Goliath? David? just trying to guess the fluffy .13 that .11 climbers can send and downrate.
Sonic Youth
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caughtinside
Jun 16, 2009, 9:46 PM
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angry wrote: caughtinside wrote: angry wrote: caughtinside wrote: Goliath? David? just trying to guess the fluffy .13 that .11 climbers can send and downrate. Sonic Youth
Screaming Trees?
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sungam
Jun 16, 2009, 10:24 PM
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John, you forgot your other weakness - Holding falls with autolocking belay plates.
I can't seem to get my sorry ass up any corner routes. Maybe it's inflexibility, poor technique, or maybe just the fact that I suck at climbing.
I seem to suck way harder at corner routes (especially if it's laybacing/fingers in the corner) then other routes, noticiably so.
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ryanb
Jun 16, 2009, 10:35 PM
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At the moment, I think i'm best at thin but featured vertical to off vertical granite face/slab...I've done 11's at Index, wa (a couple onsite...index routes harder then 10+ mostly have thin slab cruxes) and gotten all but the last move on a sustained 12b index slab that kills most 13 climbers on my frist go (on tr with hangs but i'll go back)...12- slab climbing is 11+ slab climbing where you have to jump a foot or two for a 1/4" crimp right in the middle of the crux.
I can grab an edge like a mofo (hangboarding works) have good balance, an eye for slaby sequence and am ok at standing up on thin feet with no hands above pro. Steep sport and more then a few finger locks in a row both kill me though...I can get up them but only with constant hangs.
I really like bouldering but i seem to max out around v6 (outside, a bit harder inside) and can't even understand how people can hold onto some of the holds they do.
I wish i was better at working my weaknesses but i'm not...I think my biggest one is Ben and Jerry's ice cream.
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bill413
Jun 16, 2009, 11:13 PM
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Dynos. I can't do dynos.  (But, I've occaisionally found static alternatives to problems everone else dynos on.  )
angry - I can understand about climbing lower grades at sport if you don't feel as good at face...makes sense. But, I'm irrationally opposite of you about falling on bolts vs. gear.
I say irrationally because I placed the gear, it's inspectable (well...assuming it's not an alien...different thread), and I can assess it's placement, age, if it's been fallen on before. On a bolt, I have no idea of its history...is it good? Has it held many falls? etc. Yet, I'm willing to whip on bolts, much less so on gear.
(This post was edited by bill413 on Jun 16, 2009, 11:14 PM)
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Myxomatosis
Jun 16, 2009, 11:46 PM
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I love to climb technical face's (slab and over hung) so my strength lies there. I got flexability from 'nam, can usually high step around my shoulders and drop knee anything  Those are my get out of jail skills... 
I dont have alot of expolsive raw power and so you will see me trying for big static reaches using high feet rather than long dynamic moves.
I usually find my down falls when I come across,
* big moves with crap feet (I don't have big guns)
* jamming (Have fear of getting fingers stuck)
* anything involving a dyno or jump starts (no power)
Any pocket is a rest, a jam will bring an elvis encore, slopers are hit or miss, crimp's I love.
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lena_chita
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Jun 17, 2009, 2:04 AM
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Next time when you come to RRG, stay away from cracks and climb the real RRG routes!
I am much stronger in sport climbing than in gear leads, but a lot of it has an obvios explanation of inexperience. More nitpicky, I don't seem to find a good way to get my hands in the crack with my thumbs down. NO matter what size, the thumbs down is not clicking in my head. Ringlocks are pretty weak, and cupped hands/rattly fingers make me want to cry. Give me a handjam though, or a fistjam, especially a fistjam, and I feel pretty comfortable.
I am also realizing that crack climbing is very much hand size dependent, and I might actually have an advantage there, once I get comfortable with cracks, as opposed to the disadvantage that all my regular partners have heard about, many times, in my constant whining about reachy moves on RRG jughauls. It is funny, I was recently introduced to some concrete cracks (yeah, yeah, I know, Cleveland is a desperate place to live) that a guy who climbed WTOK gives grades of easy to hard 5.12. The one he calls easy is the hardest one for me. The one he calls the hardest is the easiest, b/c instead of trying to climb rattly offset finger-crack as a crack, I simply layback it. While I am yet to climb any of those cleanly, I feel that i would get 'the harder one' long before I have any chance on the "easy one".
Looking at the face climbing, I am really weak at dynos. A big chicken, that's one problem. But I suck at dynos even when they are in a cushy gym environment, just above a big thick mat with several eager spotters. Maybe the spotters are the problem? Yeah, that's right, it's not me, it's the guys who try to spot me. they are doing it wrong.
Sloppers are still my relative weakness, too.
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sungam
Jun 17, 2009, 2:09 AM
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lena_chita wrote: I am also realizing that crack climbing is very much hand size dependent, and I might actually have an advantage there
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Johnny_Fang
Jun 17, 2009, 2:12 AM
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sungam wrote: John, you forgot your other weakness - Holding falls with autolocking belay plates. I can't seem to get my sorry ass up any corner routes. Maybe it's inflexibility, poor technique, or maybe just the fact that I suck at climbing. I seem to suck way harder at corner routes (especially if it's laybacing/fingers in the corner) then other routes, noticiably so.
fucking corners. i hate those fucking things.
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petsfed
Jun 17, 2009, 4:01 AM
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sungam wrote: lena_chita wrote: I am also realizing that crack climbing is very much hand size dependent, and I might actually have an advantage there Funny story about this... There's a chick, Emily, who live in Moab, who doesn't climb as hard as her BF - except on reds. she tears reds apart, while Zach and I flail (big hands). She always leads the tight hand pitches...
Goddamn it reds. There is a reason we have to differentiate between tight hands and hands. Because the red camalot is the most misleading size known to man. Fuckin' red camalots. Goddamn it I suck at that size.
Also, I know a lot of people who would say that if you just power laybacked something from ground to chains, you didn't really climb it.
I'm shamelessly ripping off angry when I say it, but one of his old climbing partners has been saying the same thing lately: if you layback without a goal in mind (a stance that you can see, a lock that you can see, etc), you will fall. Sorry lena_chita. You'll benefit more from climbing concrete cracks if you try to jam them. The kick with thumbs down jamming is that the jamming rotation comes at the shoulders, not the elbows or wrist like thumbs up jamming. Which is also why you can't reach far with them, and you can't pull very far with them. If you watch somebody climb something that requires a lot of thumbs-down jams, you'll probably notice that they don't make very big moves between them. Most people's shoulder flexibility is simply not up to the big moves required.
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rtwilli4
Jun 17, 2009, 4:05 AM
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I'm not sure what makes me feel worse, listening to you and Oliver talk about whether to lie back or ring lock a 13 in the desert, or reading what you just wrote. Boy what I would give to be able to climb a 13 ANYWHERE!
Anyways, to answer your question, I have no idea what I'm good at. It seems to depend on where I am and how much climbing I am doing. My eating and drinking habits also have a lot to do with it.
The hardest routes I've ever sent have been onsites of more than a handful of 7a's (11c/d) in Thailand. Some were soft, some were not, but they were all steep and juggy. Some were over 100 feet and some were 50 feet. I have also one hung a 12a and a few 12b's (one very technical one with a few TINY crimps) but never tried them again. I climb a lot when I'm there, and I feel very strong in the core and the lungs.
I also felt very strong in Malaysia. The stone is similar but the holds are much smaller and the climbing is more technical in general. I one hung a stiff 12a there that was vertical with small holds and long reaches. I never tried it again. I got shut down on a 12c but think I could have done it had I tried a few more times. It was called "Belly Button Window" and was the steepest climb I have ever seen... completely horizontal through the crux. I felt my strongest in Malaysia with good endurance, core and finger strength. Probably because I was eating right, sleeping well, and there was no alcohol.
I hung a few times on Ro Shampo (11d?) at the Red and will send that one first go when I go back. I only tried it once but it felt pretty easy for the grade and I wasn't climbing very hard while I was there. Whenever I am at the Red I feel like I could climb 14's if I stayed there long enough. I was so out of shape when I got there last fall that it took a few weeks just to get back to normal.
The New ALWAYS kicks my ass. I've onsighted an 11a and one hung an 11c there. Hung a few times on Lost Souls (11d?) and came down at the crux of some stiff 12a at Beauty the other day. Whenever I'm at the New I feel that if I could climb a 12a there then I could climb a 12d anywhere else. The New just whoops me, every time. Sport, trad, cracks, face, jugs... you name it and I get spit off at the New.
I have onsighted a few 10's at Stone in NC and feel very comfortable doing that. I actually am more comfortable on runout slab than I am on protected slab, just because when there is no where to place pro, it's just one less thing you have to think about. Looking Glass was pretty scary for me the first time I went. I haven't really climbed hard in NC and not enough at any one place to say much about it. In general, NC is always somewhere between fun and scary. I'm much more of a sport climber right now so NC is a whole different ballgame for me.
The one thing that I can say is that I suck at crack climbing because I haven't done much of it, and that I climb very well with my legs. Give me a dihedral, a stalactite or tufa to backstep or stem to, or even enough dime edges and I'll get up the route. I am not good at dynamic moves unless I have good feet. I am no where close to being able to do a one arm pull-up or any kind of big dynos and I have to do most things statically.
I feel that I adapt to things very quickly, and that my limit has a lot more to do with my head and my strict adherence to a "No Training Regimen" than anything else. If I'm on a good schedule and climbing a lot then I tend to get good sleep and eat healthy. That's probably why I climb my best in Asia. When I'm in the states I get focused on other things such as making a living and spending time with my family. If I had gone to the Red right when I got home last spring instead of waiting until the fall, I would have been trying hard 12's and maybe a 13 or two. Instead I partied and surfed all summer and showed up climbing 5.10.
You on the other hand seem to spend most of your time either climbing or carting people around on a bike. You also seem to have some weird disease that makes your hands conform to whatever you put them in. I wish I could have seen you climb WGOK.
Don't worry about not being able to climb 13a "sport." You climb 13a!
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onceahardman
Jun 17, 2009, 4:09 AM
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Strengths: Long reaches between good holds on steep terrain. Hand and finger cracks. Corners.
Weaknesses: Little-guy moves, all crunched up. Sit starts suck ass. Totally contrived bullshit.
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angry
Jun 17, 2009, 4:11 AM
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petsfed wrote: Goddamn it reds. There is a reason we have to differentiate between tight hands and hands. Because the red camalot is the most misleading size known to man. Fuckin' red camalots. Goddamn it I suck at that size.
I find most reds to be pretty nice. Not casual but chill 5.11-. The tight reds are the ones you're thinking of. More accurately you could say the 2 friends.
Aint a ringlock, aint a jam. It's tough to work around. I can't even try them with my right hand anymore, my finger healed so crooked that I can't get it past the crack and into the tight hand range. I just do way fat ringlocks now, maybe I'm better off.
In reply to: Also, I know a lot of people who would say that if you just power laybacked something from ground to chains, you didn't really climb it.
Raises hand
In reply to: I'm shamelessly ripping off angry when I say it, but one of his old climbing partners has been saying the same thing lately: if you layback without a goal in mind (a stance that you can see, a lock that you can see, etc), you will fall.
Could have been anyone, I say that a lot.
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rtwilli4
Jun 17, 2009, 4:11 AM
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petsfed wrote: I'm not saying that I'm climbing hard enough to really have a solid understanding of what I'm good at...
I probably should have said that and just quit... but I like to ramble :)
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petsfed
Jun 17, 2009, 4:21 AM
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angry wrote: In reply to: Also, I know a lot of people who would say that if you just power laybacked something from ground to chains, you didn't really climb it. Raises hand In reply to: I'm shamelessly ripping off angry when I say it, but one of his old climbing partners has been saying the same thing lately: if you layback without a goal in mind (a stance that you can see, a lock that you can see, etc), you will fall. Could have been anyone, I say that a lot.
Edl's been sayin' it lately, but I remember you using essentially that wording the last time a layback thread came up.
I guess I'm pretty good at like 3.5 friend size, but that's so close to median hand size that it doesn't really say anything informative.
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quiteatingmysteak
Jun 17, 2009, 4:21 AM
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I am too big for overhanging sport climbs. Something about being 185lbs.... great for walls and jiu jitsu competitions, terrible for anything steep. Considering I climb steep sport routes every chinese new year, not such a problem tho.
Finger cracks and stemming corners, baby! Being a bigger dude, i've had to spend the time to get my footwork to do all the work for me. Slabs, too, not bad... i'm not very strong but my hardest consistant onsights are slabs and finger cracks.
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rtwilli4
Jun 17, 2009, 4:36 AM
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quiteatingmysteak wrote: I am too big for overhanging sport climbs. Something about being 185lbs.... great for walls and jiu jitsu competitions, terrible for anything steep. Considering I climb steep sport routes every chinese new year, not such a problem tho. Finger cracks and stemming corners, baby! Being a bigger dude, i've had to spend the time to get my footwork to do all the work for me. Slabs, too, not bad... i'm not very strong but my hardest consistant onsights are slabs and finger cracks.
How tall are you man? 185 seems pretty normal to me. Some of the strongest sport climbers I know are 6-2 180.
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quiteatingmysteak
Jun 17, 2009, 4:42 AM
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rtwilli4 wrote: quiteatingmysteak wrote: I am too big for overhanging sport climbs. Something about being 185lbs.... great for walls and jiu jitsu competitions, terrible for anything steep. Considering I climb steep sport routes every chinese new year, not such a problem tho. Finger cracks and stemming corners, baby! Being a bigger dude, i've had to spend the time to get my footwork to do all the work for me. Slabs, too, not bad... i'm not very strong but my hardest consistant onsights are slabs and finger cracks. How tall are you man? 185 seems pretty normal to me. Some of the strongest sport climbers I know are 6-2 180.
I'm the hobbit on the left 
(This post was edited by quiteatingmysteak on Jun 17, 2009, 4:42 AM)
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rtwilli4
Jun 17, 2009, 4:46 AM
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quiteatingmysteak wrote: rtwilli4 wrote: quiteatingmysteak wrote: I am too big for overhanging sport climbs. Something about being 185lbs.... great for walls and jiu jitsu competitions, terrible for anything steep. Considering I climb steep sport routes every chinese new year, not such a problem tho. Finger cracks and stemming corners, baby! Being a bigger dude, i've had to spend the time to get my footwork to do all the work for me. Slabs, too, not bad... i'm not very strong but my hardest consistant onsights are slabs and finger cracks. How tall are you man? 185 seems pretty normal to me. Some of the strongest sport climbers I know are 6-2 180. [image]http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f205/twototrango/DSC00332.jpg[/image] I'm the hobbit on the left
haha, it's awesome that you called yourself a hobbit. I'm 6ft 150 soaking wet. Not very good for the mountains. Wanna trade?
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quiteatingmysteak
Jun 17, 2009, 4:56 AM
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a guy i used to climb with just came back from afghanistan, was about your size before he left and was in a spec forces unit. now he's about 3 pounds heavier. Sum guys can't gain weight... case in point this guy
5.11 crimping sport routes off the couch, plays on Caveman Traverse like a monkey. My brother bitches he is too small... whatta punk.
(This post was edited by quiteatingmysteak on Jun 17, 2009, 4:56 AM)
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