Forums: Climbing Disciplines: Big Wall and Aid Climbing:
Post deleted by RangerJ
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for Big Wall and Aid Climbing

Premier Sponsor:

 


RangerJ


Jun 30, 2009, 11:31 AM
Post #1 of 11 (3466 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 30, 2007
Posts: 31

Post deleted by RangerJ
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  

 


mounter


Jun 30, 2009, 11:39 AM
Post #2 of 11 (3461 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 18, 2003
Posts: 133

Re: [RangerJ] anchors + weather + big walls [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I'd be more worried about chupacabras then the occasionalwater on your rope. Just ensure you dry it out properly. ...salt water is worse. don't pack up a wet rope with out drying it and don't allow mildew/mold to grow on your cord Use common sense and when in doubt go with your gut. But really, watch out for chupacabras!!!


marc801


Jun 30, 2009, 12:25 PM
Post #3 of 11 (3426 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 1, 2005
Posts: 2806

Re: [RangerJ] anchors + weather + big walls [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I'd also be concerned about what chords you're playing. Minor chords with an added 7th usually don't go well with wet cords.


acorneau


Jun 30, 2009, 12:29 PM
Post #4 of 11 (3422 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 6, 2008
Posts: 2889

Re: [marc801] anchors + weather + big walls [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

marc801 wrote:
I'd also be concerned about what chords you're playing. Minor chords with an added 7th usually don't go well with wet cords.

Diminished 7th chord means impending death!
Shocked


Partner cracklover


Jun 30, 2009, 12:48 PM
Post #5 of 11 (3402 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10161

Re: [RangerJ] anchors + weather + big walls [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

RangerJ, you're right. Next time your ropes get soaked, make sure you stop before you take 7 factor 1.7 falls in a row on them, because they might fail at only 6.

GO


moof


Jul 1, 2009, 9:43 AM
Post #6 of 11 (3312 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 17, 2003
Posts: 400

Re: [RangerJ] anchors + weather + big walls [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

That's a pretty weak troll if I ever saw one.

Remember that your haul bag is also not dry treated, so if a water bottle bursts and soaks the bottom all your shit might go for the big ride.

Similarly harnesses are not dry treated, so be careful about sweating too much.


RangerJ


Jul 1, 2009, 11:54 AM
Post #7 of 11 (3284 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 30, 2007
Posts: 31

Re: [moof] anchors + weather + big walls [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

moof wrote:
Similarly harnesses are not dry treated, so be careful about sweating too much.

Sorry for the post, perhaps it was my fault for posing what I thought was a genuine question to a forum of climbers who are usually defined as helpful.

I find a giant difference between either spilling a liter of water into my haul bag or body sweat interacting with my harness while I'm constantly not weighting it versus having upwards of 300 lbs of weight suspended for 12+ hours at a time from 12 feet of 8 mm chord while it is being hammered with rain the entire time not merely being wet, but soaked through the core.

Studies show that 8mm chord loses roughly 30% of its strength when a fig 8 knot is tied to it, and that a soaked line is 25% weaker than when it is dry. Consequently, I had thought that I've already lost half the breaking strength of my anchor already. However, other studies I researched show that the longer the exposure to water, the greater that nylon-6 material absorbs water, reaching a maximum increase in weight by 60%. The heavier and bigger the rope gets, the greater the strength loss, etc. AS WELL, abraded (i.e. used) material has an even further reduction in strength, and the list seems to get compounded...

My anchors meet the SRENE standards, but they aren't redundant when it comes to the rope material itself, in much the same way that (unless you're using half ropes) you don't climb simultaneously with two single ropes.

Hence the simple question: do you protect your anchor material from a good soaking when needed as you do with your climbing rope when you buy dry-treated material, or do you not? True, I am not taking falls on my anchor, but there's a lot of weight for a long time pulling on that material, and if we tend to freak out about open carabiners (despite the fact that 9 kN holds a lot of weight), I wondered if the community found the above scenario worthy of caution

A weak troll? Sorry for thinking then...

And I'm with acorneau: diminished chords do indeed suck.


moof


Jul 1, 2009, 12:29 PM
Post #8 of 11 (3268 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 17, 2003
Posts: 400

Re: [RangerJ] anchors + weather + big walls [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

8mm cord ~3100 lbs break strength (per strand)

6 strands (3 piece cordellete anchor) ~18600 lbs (if equalized, and if the 8mm cord was the weak point). Knots -1/3 of that, or 12,400 lbs. What I've read is that wet nylong only degrades 10-15% when wet, or 10,500 lbs.

So if your fat ass, haulbag, and ledge weigh in close to 10,000 lbs, then yes, you should be worried. Otherwise you are a nervous ninnie and/or a troll. Judging by your use of an extra thick 8mm cordellete, you are a nervous ninnie.

Dudes die in storms, but usually due to exposure and hypothermia, not wet nylon.

The bigger concerns are if you are leading on a wet non-dry rope, as the dynamic properties of the rope are greatly reduced when wet. If things get cold and shit starts freezing then life will suck too.

Nickwax sells a dry treating refresher solution that you could dry treat your other crap with if you want.

Seriously, this is why I should stay off rc.noob. Sheesh.


Partner cracklover


Jul 1, 2009, 2:10 PM
Post #9 of 11 (3246 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10161

Re: [RangerJ] anchors + weather + big walls [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

RangerJ wrote:
Sorry for the post, perhaps it was my fault for posing what I thought was a genuine question to a forum of climbers who are usually defined as helpful.

We were being helpful. We explained that your fear is as rational as a child fearing the monster under the bed. What you choose to do with that helpful info is up to you.

In reply to:
Hence the simple question: do you protect your anchor material from a good soaking when needed as you do with your climbing rope when you buy dry-treated material, or do you not?

No.

In reply to:
True, I am not taking falls on my anchor, but there's a lot of weight for a long time pulling on that material, and if we tend to freak out about open carabiners (despite the fact that 9 kN holds a lot of weight), I wondered if the community found the above scenario worthy of caution

First of all we tend to freak out about the potential of *falling* on a gate-open biner. Hard falls can easily exceed 7kN, the average open-gate strength.

Second, no, I don't think the community is terribly concerned about your rope or your 8mm cordelette snapping because it got wet and then you hung yourself and your ledge on it.

If I were you I'd be much more concerned about:

A - getting soaked and freezing my ass off
B - the climbing getting much harder with the rock being a waterfall.
C - getting struck by lightning, knocked around by high winds, etc.

The fact that you're concerned about your "chord" rather than the real concerns is what makes people think you've either never actually been in that situation or one remotely like it, and are just asking mindless "what if" questions, or else you have been in that situation, you know the question is ridiculous, and you're just trolling for fun.

GO


Partner xtrmecat


Jul 1, 2009, 2:50 PM
Post #10 of 11 (3231 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 1, 2004
Posts: 548

Re: [cracklover] anchors + weather + big walls [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

  I'm with Moof on this one. Sure idle time for the mind is often unpleasant, for when the stuff is entering the fan, the mind wanders down all the streets, including the ones in "bad neighborhoods".

But really, what could realistically go wrong, is the thoughts that I have to come back to. If it continues to soak me, do I have the food(fuel to stave off total exhaustion), dry gear to maintain, am I located in a watercourse, or worse, if it freezes, will I get wiped from an anchor by falling ice or rocks.

I can never recall having worried about softgoods, strength of the anchor materials. I worry more about wet sandstone anchors than wet chord. If I look at "what ifs to the extreme", I wouldn't get shit done. If I put fears into a realistic category, assess the reality, realistically, I have a good time doing some real shitty duty on a wall. I suppose if I worried about whipping on a wet rope,(I mostly solo), I can overcome things like this. After all, isn't that really why I am up there? To challenge my mind, body, engineering skills, creativity, and such?

If stuff like this is on the fore front of your grey matter, you should consider a broader knowledge of both your gear, yourself, and why it is you are there.

Just my two cents worth. But I still enjoy it, even though it is an activity that is nothing but work, dirty, sweaty, eats lots of time and money, is slow and unexciting to the rest of the world.

Bob


RangerJ


Jul 1, 2009, 6:10 PM
Post #11 of 11 (3209 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 30, 2007
Posts: 31

Re: [xtrmecat] anchors + weather + big walls [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

moof wrote:
Otherwise you are a nervous ninnie and/or a troll. Judging by your use of an extra thick 8mm cordellete, you are a nervous ninnie.

Cautious yes, curious and uninformed, yes - hence the question

cracklover wrote:
If I were you I'd be much more concerned about...

The other concerns I had addressed, and were prepared for, and have experienced. But this one matter I had not, hence the question.

And now I've got my answer. So thanks, case closed, and for those of you who believe I wasted your time, sorry.


Forums : Climbing Disciplines : Big Wall and Aid Climbing

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook