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ladyscarlett
Jul 1, 2009, 10:07 AM
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So of course, I know...it depends.
However, I'm curious to see how often climbers really take a look at the sky, see stuff they don't like, clouds, hail, lightening, whatever, and still tackle the intended climb.
How often have you won the gamble? How often have you lost?
When assessing whether to take a chance or not, what have been your factors in the past? Don't need a detailed meteorological thesis, just what factors you are looking at when deciding to go for it or not.
Stories of climbing in crazy conditions are welcome! I haven't been in a situation where I've had to climb in a full on storm, but it has to have happened, right? Where it's raining/storming, but just 10 ft up is a 'safe' ledge to wait out the storm....just curious. Fourth/fifth class downclimbs on water slick granite? Tips on keeping friction as water flows down the rock?
I ask, not because I WANT to climb in a storm mind you, but to hear some experiences and lessons learned out there.
So far, I've only lead a pitch in a light drizzle, which ended up as a rappel in a rainstorm from the first belay - first time ever getting rained out on a climb! Not optimal, but good to know that I was able to handle the situation...while having a blast - Nature touched me in a special way that day! And for some reason, all I could do was laugh!
Thanks in advance for the sharing!
cheers
ls
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blueshrimp
Jul 1, 2009, 12:27 PM
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Here in Switzerland it rains so much during the summer (we only have like 15 good climbing days it seems!) that I have often gone to the crag in beautiful weather just to be rained on halfway up the pitch.
Because sunny days are so rare, you just keep climbing unless it gets really impossible.
One time I finished a pitch in soaking rain and though I was happy to continue climbing more after that, my companions decided to head for the nearest cafe instead.
So yeah, I tend to climb in the rain too. Of course that is only if a)the weather is warmish, b)it is a crag (i.e. no extensive, 12 pitch routes!) or single pitch, and c)you know you have access to a nice warm shower and hot chocolate at home after you get back!
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bill413
Jul 1, 2009, 1:15 PM
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I remember two climbs on Cannon where we got caught in the weather. Once, we rapped off (which was *ahem* fun since my partner was pretty inexperienced & fearful of rappelling). The other time we literally climbed up into the clouds & storm, and finished it anyway. Climbing a friction pitch in the rain was an interesting experience.
The other day the weather report was for thunderstorms, but we went up to the local rock anyway, and had a beautiful day of climbing. I suspect that the threat of rain kept a lot of people away, since it was pretty uncrowded.
A lot for me depends on how badly I want to go climbing, and where I'm headed. And, how bad the ominous weather seems. Unless I get caught in it, I don't climb in the rain; just sun & bugs.
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dingus
Jul 1, 2009, 1:54 PM
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I give you two climbs Ladyscarlett -
SE Face of Cathedral (about 3 or 4 weeks ago)
And Serpentine Arete up in the Cascades, more than a decade ago.
'These guys climb in this weather all the time."
How many Californians have been sucked into bad weather elsewhere, trying to 'do as the natives do?'
Hehe. Lots.
Anyway, typical Cascades weather had us considering a grade IV technical rock climbing route up a forbidding peak. It was ascually raining as we geared up at the base of the rock climbing, after getting up and off the glacier.
We climbed the first half of the route ropeless, some scary but fairly straight forward 3rd and 4th class (in the rain) and then sent the crux pitches as well.
The top of the mountain was inside the cloud deck. We did not know the descent- at all.
Reason prevailed. We rapped the crux and downclimbed the rest... and lived to climb another day.
So recently Angus and I met up on the East side. We've had unusual weather and our stable Sierra has had a more Continental weather pattern with daily storms.
So it rained at our camp. It was still drizzley at 4 am when we got up.
We drove up THROUGH the clouds to get to Tioga.
When we started hiking at dawn through, we could tell there was a bubble of blue directly overhead.
The question was not IF it would last, merely 'how long?'
We were at the base of the peak, roped up and ready to go at 9 am. 700 feet to the summit. A wall of clouds in the Kuna Crest, just behind us. Another wall of clouds over the Tuolumen divide (Mt Hoffmann).
And to the south? Lyell, MacClure et al were buried in storms.
Yet the summit of Cathedral pierced the bullet blue sky.
2 factors in our favor - we both had simul-climbed this route many, many times. We knew exactly the amount of margin we needed (2 hours, tops) and we knew where to go and how to pass the parties ALREADY ON THE ROUTE!
So we went for it. We were back at our packs at 12:30, putting on our hiking boots. The first raindrops got to us a half hour later.
I broke out my Brelly on the hike back to the car. Never got a drop on me.
Up high on the route we caught the top of 3 seperate ropes (they were all buddies). One of the guys commented on our climbing style - 'those guys are going pretty light!'
We took only a water bottle and a rain jacket, each. Plus our usual harness crap. No packs, no 10 essentials, none of that. We racked for speed.
"A day like this? You have to be prepared for ANYTHING." Was the judgement of their sour, pack laden leader.
We waved at them, up on the summit... as we hiked away from the peak.
The primary difference between the two? Intimate route knowledge and the commitment necessary to continue. Each time the correct decision was made.
Biut seriously I have a Fred Beckey like horror of getting trapped and pinned down by a storm and I take great care to insure it never happens to me.
DMT
(This post was edited by dingus on Jul 1, 2009, 1:55 PM)
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multiades
Jul 1, 2009, 5:30 PM
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bill413 wrote: I remember two climbs on Cannon where we got caught in the weather. Once, we rapped off (which was *ahem* fun since my partner was pretty inexperienced & fearful of rappelling). The other time we literally climbed up into the clouds & storm, and finished it anyway. Climbing a friction pitch in the rain was an interesting experience.
I love that place, but try to steer clear of any hint of bad weather -- at least so far.
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rgold
Jul 1, 2009, 5:53 PM
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Most of the folks I know subscribe to the idea that you start out in almost any weather short of a full-on storm and make a decision whether or not to continue at some appropriate critical juncture. This is especially true if the climb is preceded by a relatively non-technical approach that may be long but will not be particularly difficult to descend in bad weather.
If you climb in the Rockies (and to a lesser extent the Sierra), then even if you are conservative, it is only a matter of time before you end up in an afternoon thunderstorm. These can be very severe, and the lightning that comes with them is among the scariest things a climber can face.
Here's a story from many years ago in the the Wind Rivers.
I, Barbara Thatcher, and Jim and Laura McCarthy, climbing as two ropes of two, found ourselves on the summit of Steeple Peak with storm clouds brewing. For a moment we thought the buzzing sound was some loose material flapping in the gusts, or maybe even some kind of insect nest, but in a flash we realized the summit was discharging electrons and we were acquiring a positive charge, the lightning equivalent of a target painted on your back.
We quickly reinforced some old rappel tat with an extra piece of webbing an got the hell out of there, and not a moment too soon: rain and hail started immediately and lightning seemed to be striking everywhere, setting off large rockfalls and making us feel like we were in a WW II movie.
Huddled 150 feet under the summit, hunted by lightning and rockfall, we discoverd that we couldn't pull the rappel lines. (Typically, the first person down tests whether the rappel will pull, but we were in such a hurry to escape the buzzing summit that we neglected to perform this simple test.)
Our situation was looking rather critical. Hail and verglas were rapidly coating the rock, making even fourth-class slabs extremely difficult. Our ropes were stuck on the summit. The storms were coming in waves, with new and nastier versions appearing on the horizon all the time. And the lightening seemed to be striking everything but us.
A moment or two passed as we contemplated our situation in dumbfounded silence. It was Jim who galvanized into action. "We've got to free up those ropes!" he shouted over the sounds of booming thunder and rumbling stonefall. He slapped two prussik knots on the rope and proceeded to hand-over-hand his way up, pausing whenever he could let go to slide the prussiks up as protection. This was a stunning performance, genuine heroics. Jim was heading to the only place more dangerous than the one we were in. It was clear that the slow methodical process of conventional prussiking on sodden ropes would leave us all exposed to further bombardment for a very long time, and in spite of the obvious immediate danger, Jim made an instantaneous calculation that he could manage hand-over-hand and that it was the best thing under the circumstances.
The military gives out medals for heroism under fire. Jim certainly deserves one for his actions that day. He reached the top, rearranged the ropes rappelled back down, and we pulled the ropes.
We faced a slabby descent, probably 4th to easy fifth class when dry, that was now coated with verglas and hailstones. We could find no rappel anchors. Shod in smooth-soled rock shoes, we would have to downclimb this newly-iced terrain. Jim went first, the braced but unanchored upper belay from me a puny reward for the risks he had just undertaken. He climbed down 100 feet without being able to place any protection. Finally he found a sloping ledge and managed to fiddle in a single mediocre nut. This was our belay anchor.
The two women followed with tight upper belays, and then it was my turn. The icing had gotten somewhat worse during the three descents, and I looked down 100 feet to my three companions, huddled miserably in the storm, clipped to that one questionable piece. If I fell on the descent, I would surely take them all with me. There followed the most frightening moments of a climbing career that had had its share of R- and X-rated leads. Can anything be less secure than climbing down an icy slab? Nothing for the hands, the foot lowered down and placed but not weighted, and then the weight transfer bringing with it instant total commitment with no chance of adjustment or recovery. It seemed like an eternity to me. Might have been even worse for the three spectators whose fate was linked to my outcome.
Somehow, I made it to the "anchor" without slipping. We began to enjoy some spacing between the thunder storm waves, some blue sky and even a sunbeam or two illuminating our way for a few minutes before the next killer cell arrived. These breaks and the lower altitude were enough to make the rock merely wet rather than iced, and we made steady and uneventful progress to the lush meadows surrounding Shadow Lake.
The green alpine grasses and mosses greeted us with the moist fragrance of the valley, our stoves roared into action, water was boiled and infused, and the sun made its appearance and painted the peaks with an alpenglow made more dramatic by the still-dark background of storm clouds receding to the East.
Edit: An edited version of this story is now posted on SuperTopo under the title A Walk with McCarthy in the Winds, together with a few pictures relevant to the tale.
(This post was edited by rgold on Jul 2, 2009, 5:26 PM)
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k.l.k
Jul 1, 2009, 6:23 PM
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ladyscarlett wrote: However, I'm curious to see how often climbers really take a look at the sky, see stuff they don't like, clouds, hail, lightening, whatever, and still tackle the intended climb.
There's weather and then there's weather. If you can't or won't rock climb in rain, then you'll probably never do any decent longer routes in the Cascades. You'd better get used to wet rock, whiteout, mist, rain, and even bad rain. Just not a big deal.
The Sierras are different, though, since here bad weather in the summer typically means lightening storms.
And lightening is different. Only an idiot climbs up into lightening. And you see them every storm cycle on Cathedral, grovelling up onto that lightening rod of a summit, in massive suicidal clusters, weighed down with pounds of pointless cams and klemheists, each of them wearing a UIAA certified helmet.
(Nice pic in Sierra Heritage or whatever it was, btw.)
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shorty
Jul 1, 2009, 6:46 PM
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We've had a wet spring in Colorado, and I've climbed and rapped more than my usual share of wet routes this year. My basement has become the climbing gear drying room.
I spend most of my time developing routes on a rock I've been on year round for almost 10 years. I know most of the hiding places and the best rap routes, but I still can't predict the weather worth a darn. Yesterday's storms passed by with only minor sprinkles. Last week's storms caught me three pitches up in soaker that made off-width cracks into vertical creek beds.
We base our decisions to advance or retreat on experience and situational necessities. Rgold tells a great story in his post, of someone who fully understood the consequences of action versus reaction. I've been fortunate that my rain/hail/lightning stories have been at most a minor epic.
Climb carefully and use your head -- the rock will be there tomorrow.
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blueeyedclimber
Jul 1, 2009, 7:23 PM
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Great story, Richard! I fortunately have only been caught in the rain a few times, and those few times included moderate terrain, and/or easy rappels or descents. I have not climbed extensively out west and never in the Rockies, but am sure I will some day.
The best thing to do is check the forecast beforehand, but even better is to not panic if caught in a bad situation. Weather can be very unpredictable.
Josh
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bill413
Jul 1, 2009, 7:49 PM
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First, rgold - fantastic story, beautifully written.
quote "multiades"]bill413 wrote: I remember two climbs on Cannon where we got caught in the weather. Once, we rapped off (which was *ahem* fun since my partner was pretty inexperienced & fearful of rappelling). The other time we literally climbed up into the clouds & storm, and finished it anyway. Climbing a friction pitch in the rain was an interesting experience.
I love that place, but try to steer clear of any hint of bad weather -- at least so far.
The first (rapped off) was Whitney-Gilman. We had just finished the pipe pitch. The storm blew in from behind the mountain, so we really didn't have any warning.
The second was, I believe, the Weisner route. Water was running down the rock, we finished after sunset, and destroyed our headlamp on the hike out.
Interesting climbs. 
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ladyscarlett
Jul 2, 2009, 7:04 AM
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Thank you so much for sharing the pleasurable stories!
I will say that most of my limited experience with weather IS in the Sierras, which I constantly hear is unique to say the least...But there is something special to being out on a rock with the rain coming down, the sun shining through, and the 'flash-bangs' coming in at the same time!
I know that I will at some time be climbing in 'bad' weather, as if I'm out there enough, it's going to happen - it's just more experiences and stories!
That being said, I think I'm going to wait until I'm a much better climber/mountain experienced person before taking the big gambles.
What can I say? As a newbie wimp, I'm down with starting my gambling small, like waiting at the base of a climb for an hour in a storm, waiting for the storm to pass and the rock to dry.
But with this Sierra season being what it is, maybe that will change soon...
I have learned one thing, when the swarms mosquitoes disappear, it's definitely time to look up at the sky!
To continuing adventures!!
cheers everyone
ls
ps - how often have people brought rain pants along side the rain jacket? What did THAT day look like? Trying to learn about layering, etc...
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rgold
Jul 2, 2009, 1:49 PM
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Not suggesting you gamble with lightning of course, that is truly Russian Roulette, but it is an excellent idea to to be familiar with climbing on wet rock before circumstances force you. And the circumstances might not be storm-related either; pitches can be soaked with meltwater from an overhead snowfield, for example.
If you are totally unused to climbing on wet rock, you'll be scared, extremely tentative, and so probably excruciatingly slow in conditions that typically call for efficiency if not outright speed, and your decision-making about going up or down will be warped by an unrealistic view of the difficulty of wet climbing.
In the East (and Midwest) we have a lichen cover that becomes almost as slick as ice when it gets wet. Western granite certainly loses some of its friction value, but does not turn into a totally different medium when soaked. So learn what you can still do and what you can't under controlled wet circumstances, and you'll be a lot safer and calmer when you finally get caught in a downpour up high.
As for rain pants, once your ropes get sodden, rappelling wrings the water out and dumps it on your pants, significantly adding to the flow coming off your rain jacket. You can end up totally soaked below the waist, and heavy soaked pants impede movement as well as chilling. Still, adding a pair of rain pants to gear being carried often seems like a poor trade-off. I'd guess that few climbers in the Sierra pack them, whereas quite a few Cascade climbers have a pair tucked away.
Virtually all the commercial rain pants made are quite impractical for climbing, in the sense that it is hard to get them on in the middle of a climb in a functional way. Some years ago, Trango marketed an excellent and inexpensive rain suit that included pants designed to go right over your harness. The pants had a long velcro fly that you could sort of paste around the harness belay loop, which therefore remained accessible. A drawcord waist allowed you to cinch the pants up on the harness just underneath the gear loops. It was just a matter of seconds to pull these pants on, and you were good to go. Malcom, can we please have 'em back?
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desertdude420
Jul 2, 2009, 1:52 PM
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Here in Colorado we have a saying. "If you wait for perfect weather, you'll never get shit done!"
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limeydave
Jul 2, 2009, 3:17 PM
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Every weekend at the New is a gamble.
30% chance of Thunderstorms - it always says that.
I seem to get away with it 90% of the time.
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ladyscarlett
Jul 2, 2009, 4:49 PM
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limeydave wrote: Every weekend at the New is a gamble. 30% chance of Thunderstorms - it always says that. I seem to get away with it 90% of the time.
heh - the infamous 20-30% chance of thunderstorms...a standard day in Tuolomne lately! How does this express itself? An impromptu cold cold shower followed by getting baked by blazing sun; it could be beautiful perfection, or bailing in the rain while throwing out comments about why the 'planes' all of a sudden have gotten so low and loud...
Climbing in weather...heh. Safety FIRST, right? Ha! Only as much as 20% chance of thunderstorms allows for!
cheers
ls
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sspssp
Jul 2, 2009, 6:29 PM
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I've gotten caught on a wall enough times in a full thunderstorm that I now work pretty hard to avoid it. Climbing mostly in the Sierra's, I can usually wait for a great forecast or else just crag.
If weather is building on the climb, I think about: how long will it take to top out (and normal descent) versus rapping (I usually only take one rope), what clothing do I have along, what sort of climbing (wet hand cracks, ok; wet run out slabs, not so good). Exposure to lightening.
I've also had enough days in a wet tent where we decided to go out and practice (on a top rope) aiding, climbing, rapping, etc in the rain to see how it goes. I've not intentionally done that for a long time. But getting used to wet rock in a safe environment is useful. You also learn what it takes to stay warm. I learned that it is extremely hard to stay dry. You are mostly better off with clothing that will keep you warm and wet then thinking clothing will keep you dry and warm.
(This post was edited by sspssp on Jul 2, 2009, 6:32 PM)
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cracklover
Jul 2, 2009, 7:14 PM
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A lot depends on how well you know the weather patterns in the area.
For example, when I was in the Northeast, if I drove up to Cannon in the morning and saw clouds and rain flowing down over the cliffs, but otherwise mostly blue skies, I'd know that by the time I finished the approach, the rain would most likely be gone, the faces mostly dry, and only the cracks would be seeping. That's because Cannon seems to create its own weather every morning, but it burns off.
I've also been in North Conway or Rumney NH in one of those typical fall weather patterns where the drizzle and bullet-grey skies seem to last for weeks. You know that some faces will be fine, the weather is not likely to turn nasty, and you just deal with the damp.
I just moved to CO, and recently we've had scattered thunderstorms that move through Denver/Boulder every afternoon, somewhere between noon and 5 pm. There, it's just a gamble, but if you get up early, at least you can be guaranteed to get *some* climbing in before getting chased off. But it's spooky to plan any big objectives.
GO
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