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sp00ki
Jul 2, 2009, 9:52 PM
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Don't like using the word "fix", but the subject was getting a little wordy...
At any rate, here's the problem:
I've been climbing for roughly a month now, exclusively indoor bouldering.
Since day one, i've gone three to four times a week, most recently between 2-3 hours a day. Late last week sometime, i found myself waking up the day after bouldering with a dull discomfort at the finger tip joint. The discomfort is most pronounced when i make a fist, and seems to be most prevalent in my middle and ring fingers (both hands), though a much milder "version" can be felt on the pinky finger. Hardly anything on my index fingers or thumbs.
The discomfort seems to fade as the day progresses, but is still noticeable during my off day.
For instance, i bouldered yesterday evening from 6:45 to about 9:45; i'm feeling it as i type this.
My prediction is that it'll feel a bit better tomorrow, and even better after warming up for fifteen or twenty minutes (climbing at about 10AM).
1) can someone describe what might be going on? It's not muscle soreness (or at least not muscle soreness as i'm accustomed), but squeezing the fist does let me notice it a bit more.
2) what can i do to prevent this? the problems i've been working on are a bit more "ledgy" and "hangy" (noticing far fewer jugs in the problems as i advance, which is expected of course), but one in particular requires pretty strong (for me) pinches for a few of the holds.
Thanks
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bill413
Jul 2, 2009, 10:12 PM
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Sounds like you need more rest time. I'll let more experienced folks add more (or dispute).
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marc801
Jul 2, 2009, 10:15 PM
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Offhand it sounds like typical overuse injury. Stop pushing so hard. Cut back on your sessions - maybe by half. It would probably be better for more recovery time between sessions rather than just cutting down the length of each session. When you say 3 or 4 times a week for 2-3 hrs per session, are those back-to-back days? If so, spread them out more.
Stay off the crimpers and pinches for a while. Do easier stuff to work up your muscle and tendon endurance, remembering that muscles will progress much faster than tendons and ligaments.
What do you mean by "discomfort"? Tingling? Numbness? Burning? Pain? Swelling?
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milesenoell
Jul 2, 2009, 10:57 PM
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unless you are 14 your body needs some time to adjust to the new demands you are making on your tendons. Overuse injuries will result in way more time off climbing than backing off now and avoiding the damage.
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sp00ki
Jul 2, 2009, 11:36 PM
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marc801 wrote: Offhand it sounds like typical overuse injury. Stop pushing so hard. Cut back on your sessions - maybe by half. It would probably be better for more recovery time between sessions rather than just cutting down the length of each session. When you say 3 or 4 times a week for 2-3 hrs per session, are those back-to-back days? If so, spread them out more. Stay off the crimpers and pinches for a while. Do easier stuff to work up your muscle and tendon endurance, remembering that muscles will progress much faster than tendons and ligaments. What do you mean by "discomfort"? Tingling? Numbness? Burning? Pain? Swelling?
For example, this week i climbed monday, yesterday (wednesday), going to climb tomorrow (friday) and sunday (4x, one week). Next week i was planning to climb tues, thurs, sat (3x one week).
Never back to back days, always at least one day.
Would you recommend climbing more 3x day weeks (ie, sticking to monday/wed/sat, for example) or simply climbing less?
As for the pain, it's a numb soreness. the closest i can compare it to is the way a knee or elbow feels the day after taking a spill on a hard floor or the street-- just not as severe.
Your point about muscles vs tendons/ligaments makes lots of sense.
My hand strength is going through the roof (more than i expected in such a short time), which sorta means i should do the right thing and take three or four days off.
NOT something i wanna do though... maybe in a few weeks?
Is there a way to minimize whatever impact i'm doing (certain stretches, post climbing rituals, etc) other than cutting back or ignoring tough holds? at least until i take four days off or whatever...
(This post was edited by sp00ki on Jul 2, 2009, 11:44 PM)
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Myxomatosis
Jul 2, 2009, 11:49 PM
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Sounds like you are on your way to an over use injury.
Please take at least two weeks off before its to late!! Then gently come back climbing, only V1/2 or 5.6 to 5.7 climbing for at least two weeks (do not over do it, coz thats when injury will strike you!!!). Had the same feelings in my elbows, now had nine months out.
An exercise that might help (sounds like there isn't enough blood flowing through your fingers while you sleep, get the same in my elbows)... buy a 1kg weight and just roll it in your fingers. So roll your fingers out flat then roll it back up into a fist.
Make sure you use your fingers to roll the weight and not gravity, nice and slow also.
Do 3 sets of 15 on each hand after climbing before you sleep and again when you wake up.
Or have a look at getting some chinese medicine balls.
(This post was edited by Myxomatosis on Jul 2, 2009, 11:49 PM)
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no_email_entered
Jul 3, 2009, 12:13 AM
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sp00ki wrote: At any rate, here's the problem: I've been climbing wanking for roughly a month now, exclusively indoor bouldering wanking. Since day one, i've gone three to four times a week, most recently between 2-3 hours a day. Late last week sometime, i found myself waking up the day after bouldering wanking with a dull discomfort at the finger tip joint. The discomfort is most pronounced when i make a fist, and seems to be most prevalent in my middle and ring fingers (both hands), though a much milder "version" can be felt on the pinky finger. Hardly anything on my index fingers or thumbs. The discomfort seems to fade as the day progresses, but is still noticeable during my off day. For instance, i bouldered wanked yesterday evening from 6:45 to about 9:45; i'm feeling it as i type this. My prediction is that it'll feel a bit better tomorrow, and even better after warming up for fifteen or twenty minutes ( climbing wanking at about 10AM). 1) can someone describe what might be going on? It's not muscle soreness (or at least not muscle soreness as i'm accustomed), but squeezing the fist does let me notice it a bit more.
this reads better---
---and do a search
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sp00ki
Jul 3, 2009, 12:53 AM
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Projecting a little?
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no_email_entered
Jul 3, 2009, 1:01 AM
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sp00ki wrote: Projecting a little?
no---
---a lot
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Hennessey
Jul 3, 2009, 2:04 AM
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no_email_entered wrote: sp00ki wrote: At any rate, here's the problem: I've been climbing wanking for roughly a month now, exclusively indoor bouldering wanking. Since day one, i've gone three to four times a week, most recently between 2-3 hours a day. Late last week sometime, i found myself waking up the day after bouldering wanking with a dull discomfort at the finger tip joint. The discomfort is most pronounced when i make a fist, and seems to be most prevalent in my middle and ring fingers (both hands), though a much milder "version" can be felt on the pinky finger. Hardly anything on my index fingers or thumbs. The discomfort seems to fade as the day progresses, but is still noticeable during my off day. For instance, i bouldered wanked yesterday evening from 6:45 to about 9:45; i'm feeling it as i type this. My prediction is that it'll feel a bit better tomorrow, and even better after warming up for fifteen or twenty minutes ( climbing wanking at about 10AM). 1) can someone describe what might be going on? It's not muscle soreness (or at least not muscle soreness as i'm accustomed), but squeezing the fist does let me notice it a bit more. this reads better--- ---and do a search
Holy shit that's alot of wanking off
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bradley3297
Jul 3, 2009, 2:17 AM
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i had the same problem when i started climbing harder. just make sure you get adequate rest. it never developed into anything problematic for me. and eventually went away.
(This post was edited by bradley3297 on Jul 3, 2009, 2:19 AM)
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sp00ki
Jul 3, 2009, 2:57 AM
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Interesting.
When you say adequate rest, do you mean a day between sessions? Two?
Good news regardless.
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bradley3297
Jul 3, 2009, 3:51 AM
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i think it had alot to do with my tendons adapting to new levels of stress. it didnt feel like damage. just really stiff in the morning. like mild swelling in my joints type of a pain. you can tell the difference between damage. damage is usually a sharp pain. though ifyou dont get enough rest it will turn into that. if your doing alot of steep hard climbing 3 days a week is a good starting point. and try to make sure your rest days are a couple in a row. your tendons strenghten alot slower than your muscles. i progressed so fast that i got bursitis in my elbow and tendonitis in both my forearms. not related to my hand but to show you that rest is very important. just rest when you feel that in your hand because swelling causes wear in your tendons because theres more friction caused from the swelling and that will cause damage and progress into tendonitis or other injuries. i recommend preventative icing to keep swelling down.
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marc801
Jul 3, 2009, 4:11 AM
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sp00ki wrote: Interesting. When you say adequate rest, do you mean a day between sessions? Two?
1 day on
1 day off
1 day on
2 days off
etc until you heal sufficiently
sp00ki wrote: Good news regardless.
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sp00ki
Jul 4, 2009, 2:16 PM
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Brief update:
Took a friend who'd never been climbing to the gym (Go Vertical) yesterday morning for some intro bouldering-- we were there for about three hours or so.
Since i was more focused on helping her than doing my own thing, i didn't climb nearly as much as i normally would.
Flashed a new V1 and V2, re-did a few V1s, did a little traversing and briefly worked on a problem i was a move away from finishing on Wed (finished it). Climbed, but didn't climb hard and spent a lot of time with my feet on the ground. At the end of the session, my fingers felt great. As i type, i feel no discomfort whatsoever. Going to climb a little harder tomorrow to see how i feel, but i'm thinking the best way to reduce the type of finger soreness i was experiencing is to climb on days you normally would, but much less intensely over the course of a normal session-- not necessarily for less time. Gets blood where it needs to be, keeps everything lose, and-- as a bonus-- lets you keep valuable muscle memory nice and sharp.
This is potentially good news, as i'm definitely in the camp that believes the fastest way to hurt yourself is to stay away from a sport only to jump back into it after extended downtime.
Pretty stoked.
(This post was edited by sp00ki on Jul 4, 2009, 2:24 PM)
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asiaclimber
Jul 15, 2009, 11:20 PM
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I had a similar problem. My PT told me it's because climbing pulls your finger joints apart and fluid fills inside of them. What he told me to do was 1. get a good finger stretching routine for after climbing. This will help to release the fluid from your joints 2. Hand Yoga(i do this every morning), hand out in front of you fingers pointed up palm away from you, stretch all of your fingers away from one another(hold for 10 sec), bend all of your fingers at the first joint to 90 degrees(hold for 10 sec), release then bend at secund joint(hold for 10 sec), release and make a fist (hold for 10 sec). Repeat excersises 5 times each hand.
This has helped me a lot and even stooped the pain I get in my elbows.
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sp00ki
Jul 17, 2009, 2:30 PM
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When you say good finger stretching routine, what do you mean?
I'm really interested in this, as i don't really cool down after climbs (unless you count slowly doing v0/v1 and traversing on plastic cooling down).
Looking into hand yoga... this seems like it'll be rather helpful, thanks.
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asiaclimber
Jul 19, 2009, 4:52 AM
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finger stretch= grab each finger individually and take it threw the whole range of motion pull it back all the way, roll it down all the way and side to side. bend each finger at each joint and so on.
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Hennessey
Jul 19, 2009, 5:02 AM
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I use to wake up with sore fingers when I started climbing. They would stay sore and stiff throughout the morning. I bought one of those Metolius Grip Savers from REI and used it after a day of climbing. It's basically a rubberband that stretches the opposite muscles it takes to grip. Can get them cheaper on ebay though.
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milesenoell
Jul 21, 2009, 2:40 AM
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warming up the tendons and muscles that run your fingers prior to climbing can be helpful too. Squeezing some thera putty or ssomething similar is a good way to do this.
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codhands
Jul 21, 2009, 2:53 AM
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Used to get that commercial fishing, wake up hands wouldn't work, arms numb from the shoulders down, would have to manually unclench one fist with the other, finger joints started making "squeeky" sounds, ridiculously popping wrists, couldn't take a rest. Take a rest.
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Hennessey
Jul 21, 2009, 10:04 AM
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codhands wrote: would have to manually unclench one fist with the other, finger joints started making " squeeky" sounds, .
Sounds like ajob for some WD-40
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Wunderkind
Jul 21, 2009, 12:31 PM
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I did this when I started climbing and the only fix was about 6 weeks of total rest. I started by trying to do what you're doing and take a couple days off then climb easy, but it didnt' work. I may have been worse off than you are now, but just be aware of the consequences of pushing it - two weeks now is much better than six or eight in the future.
I did some taping that seemed to help when I came back, but I think you only want to go that route temporarily while you ease back into things.
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ClimbClimb
Jul 22, 2009, 5:48 PM
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The trouble is that this stuff (no. of rest days, overuse injuries, etc) is a bit like stories about the uncle who smoke and never got lung cancer and lived until 100 -- what you describe could be perfectly healthy and normal, or it could cause the kind of chronic problem that keeps you from climbing (or doing much of anything) for weeks or months.
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