|
Hennessey
Jul 6, 2009, 1:05 AM
Post #1 of 26
(9901 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 3, 2007
Posts: 595
|
Just wondering what everyone's opinion on the best guidebook for The Gunks is?
Thanks
|
|
|
|
|
dr_feelgood
Jul 6, 2009, 1:11 AM
Post #2 of 26
(9897 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 6, 2004
Posts: 26060
|
Dick.
|
|
|
|
|
Hennessey
Jul 6, 2009, 1:17 AM
Post #4 of 26
(9887 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 3, 2007
Posts: 595
|
Thanks. I try
|
|
|
|
|
dr_feelgood
Jul 6, 2009, 1:20 AM
Post #5 of 26
(9881 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 6, 2004
Posts: 26060
|
Hennessey wrote: Thanks. I try
I'm being perfectly serious.
Dick.
|
|
|
|
|
Hennessey
Jul 6, 2009, 1:25 AM
Post #6 of 26
(9879 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 3, 2007
Posts: 595
|
dr_feelgood wrote: Hennessey wrote: Thanks. I try I'm being perfectly serious. Dick.
Yeah, didn't realize you coulda been talkin about the author Dick Williams. I am a dick though
|
|
|
|
|
bill413
Jul 6, 2009, 1:45 AM
Post #7 of 26
(9873 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 19, 2004
Posts: 5674
|
Hennessey wrote: dr_feelgood wrote: Hennessey wrote: Thanks. I try I'm being perfectly serious. Dick. Yeah, didn't realize you coulda been talkin about the author Dick Williams. I am a dick though 
|
|
|
|
|
bill413
Jul 6, 2009, 1:46 AM
Post #8 of 26
(9871 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 19, 2004
Posts: 5674
|
So, you're implying that 351 results would produce a definitive answer to this question?
|
|
|
|
|
coolcat83
Jul 6, 2009, 1:46 AM
Post #9 of 26
(9865 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 27, 2007
Posts: 1007
|
Dick williams guide to the gunks/trapps is the best I've ever used
|
|
|
|
|
zxcv
Jul 6, 2009, 3:25 PM
Post #10 of 26
(9808 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 1, 2006
Posts: 96
|
Let me interject with a bit of heresy...
For the very occasional or visiting climber, the garish Extreme Angles guide allows for easier navigation due to the well-done, large pictures. You will often see people, grey Dick open, walking about and randomly asking people what climb they are on in order to locate themselves along the cliff... the EA guide can mitigate this for the area it covers. Also, that guide will make you think the Gunks are soft as they inflated the ratings on more than a few routes.
That said, the grey Dick beats the Swain guide for route description, rating accuracy and all-around utility. The historical introduction alone is worth the price.
|
|
|
|
|
marc801
Jul 6, 2009, 4:11 PM
Post #11 of 26
(9793 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 1, 2005
Posts: 2806
|
zxcv wrote: For the very occasional or visiting climber, the garish Extreme Angles guide allows for easier navigation due to the well-done, large pictures....Also, that guide will make you think the Gunks are soft as they inflated the ratings on more than a few routes.
|
|
|
|
|
budman
Jul 6, 2009, 4:33 PM
Post #12 of 26
(9775 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 170
|
You have 3 choices. The Library of Dick, The Misguided Adventures of Swain, and The Fabrications of EA. All have different things to offer. Dick is complete. Todd is handy as all areas are in one rather small book. And EA, no matter what I say I'm hosed, has good pics, will get you to the small selection of routes but you will have to judge the grades for yourself.
Actually there is another option, go there, hang out, climb with people that know the place and start writing your own. All is good no matter which you choose. See that your from Philly too. Climb at Stover? Hear that funds are being cut for the Park.
|
|
|
|
|
Hennessey
Jul 6, 2009, 4:39 PM
Post #13 of 26
(9769 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 3, 2007
Posts: 595
|
Haven't been to Stover this year but frequented it last year. I climb alot at Birdsboro Quarry when not taking roadtrips to better places.
It sucks they are cutting the funding at Stover but what are ya gonna do? As far as the side where High Rocks is located, the only thing that needs maintenance is the port-a-shitter, and that is what the woods are for.
|
|
|
|
|
rgold
Jul 6, 2009, 4:44 PM
Post #14 of 26
(9760 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 3, 2002
Posts: 1804
|
To continue with Marc's comments, the EA book is exceptionally sloppy, inconsistent, quite often wrong, and seriously incomplete, for no less money than the far more reliable alternatives. I think it is the worst guidebook to any area I have ever seen. Dennis O'Connor's photos are the only good feature.
The navigation guides in the EA book are nicely done but actually contain less information than the corresponding guides in Dick's guidebook. Gunks climbs are not, in general, defined by major geometric features like corners and cracks, and so there is always going to be a touch of adventure and uncertainty in locating your route. This used to be part of the fun of climbing, by the way, not some awful drawback that needs to be eliminated.
For completeness and accuracy, Dick's guidebooks have no competition. The Swain guidebook is no longer up to date and most people find it to be less clear in general, but it does have the advantage of covering the entire range in one volume.
|
|
|
|
|
marc801
Jul 6, 2009, 5:54 PM
Post #15 of 26
(9736 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 1, 2005
Posts: 2806
|
Hennessey wrote: As far as the side where High Rocks is located, the only thing that needs maintenance is the port-a-shitter, and that is what the woods WAG bags are for.
|
|
|
|
|
scrapedape
Jul 9, 2009, 5:40 PM
Post #16 of 26
(9656 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 2392
|
I had a copy of the Swain guide on my first visit. I couldn't make any sense of it. I left it in my pack and returned it after my trip. I looked at other people's copies of the Grey Dick or asked for some beta here and there - that was better than the Swain guide, for me at least. I got the Grey Dick before my next visit and it's never let me down since.
|
|
|
|
|
andersjr
Aug 18, 2009, 7:03 PM
Post #17 of 26
(9484 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 1, 2005
Posts: 141
|
rgold wrote: To continue with Marc's comments, the EA book is exceptionally sloppy, inconsistent, quite often wrong, and seriously incomplete, for no less money than the far more reliable alternatives. I think it is the worst guidebook to any area I have ever seen. Dennis O'Connor's photos are the only good feature.
His Vedauwoo guidebook could arguably be worse.
|
|
|
|
|
happiegrrrl
Aug 19, 2009, 2:29 AM
Post #19 of 26
(9423 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 4660
|
I only glanced at the book when it first came out. The cover art was too gauche for me to possibly include it in my library, and I might have, simply for the photographs within, but for that awful cover....
I had heard others comment that route descriptions were inaccurate and often only the first pitch was detailed, so I didn't even look at them.
With the oversized shape and large four-color photos, I though the book would be serviceable for the once-in-a-lifetime trip to the Gunks for the climber who goes on their yearly vacation at various crags.... The book will certainly get them onto some of the most popular routes. And what the hell if the info is poor - I can never remember the route description once I cast off anyway!
|
|
|
|
|
rgold
Aug 19, 2009, 4:35 AM
Post #20 of 26
(9413 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 3, 2002
Posts: 1804
|
Well, each to his or her own, but really, why pay for an extremely limited amount of faulty, inconsistent, and just plain wrong information when for the same price you can get something accurate and comprehensive?
The ghastly cover is a visual metaphor for the chaotic, slapped-together, we-can't-be-bothered-to-even-try-to-get-things-right content.
Caveat emptor!
|
|
|
|
|
curt
Aug 19, 2009, 4:43 AM
Post #21 of 26
(9410 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2002
Posts: 18275
|
rgold wrote: andersjr wrote: His Vedauwoo guidebook could arguably be worse. Really? That's his home area; I'd have expected a better result there. His Needles guidebook is poor too...
Actually, that one is a piece of shit as well. You're far too kind.
Curt
|
|
|
|
|
rgold
Aug 19, 2009, 5:36 AM
Post #22 of 26
(9400 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 3, 2002
Posts: 1804
|
If anyone wants more detail on why I'm so negative about this guidebook, read my comments on gunks.com
|
|
|
|
|
happiegrrrl
Aug 19, 2009, 11:22 AM
Post #23 of 26
(9383 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 4660
|
rgold wrote: Well, each to his or her own, but really, why pay for an extremely limited amount of faulty, inconsistent, and just plain wrong information when for the same price you can get something accurate and comprehensive? The ghastly cover is a visual metaphor for the chaotic, slapped-together, we-can't-be-bothered-to-even-try-to-get-things-right content. Caveat emptor!
...I had intended in to include in my reason as to why it might be okay for a once-to-the-Gunks vacationer was that the oversize and color photos could be used as a coffee table/trip momento!
I certainly agree that the Dick Williams guides are, unquestionably, the correct choice for Gunks climbing guides. Plus, if the *vacationer* is astute and keeps their eyes open, they'd have a good chance of seeing the man out at the cliffs and could ask him to sign their guidebook.....
|
|
|
|
|
sethg
Aug 20, 2009, 5:36 PM
Post #24 of 26
(9305 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 9, 2006
Posts: 134
|
I own the EA book and recently I've made a game of going to look at the book after I've done a classic climb to see what I find in the EA description that's faulty. There's always something.
Madame G's: for some reason, without disclosing why, they've moved the start off to the right from its traditional location. Then from the first ledge they advise the reader to climb up the correct dihedral, but only for 15 feet, when the real route follows the dihedral to its top. Contrary to this advice in the text, the topo seems to instruct the reader to climb the dihedral to its top. I could also complain that what they call a "sucker corner" is another route called Columbia.
Middle Earth: Pitch 3, as described in the text, is actually the third pitch of Wonderland, easy to identify because of the bush at the ledge to the left of the roof and the fun crack that ends the pitch. The topo again fails to match the text, sending the reader to the right (where Middle Earth actually goes) after the roof when the (Wonderland) features described in the text are to the left.
Arrow: no real problem with the description but they have to be kidding with the ratings. They rate the roof at the start of pitch 2 as 5.9 (I thought it was easier than some 5.6 roofs in the Gunks) and they rate the traditional finish to the left of the second bolt as 5.10-- my first clean 5.10 lead at the Gunks!
Hans' Puss: They send the reader up the face, for some reason, other than up the traditional corner crack. Then on the classic first pitch traverse, they have the reader stop and move upwards halfway through the traverse to go around the corner 10 feet above the bolts. Apart from the silliness of building an anchor without great pro options when you have bolts just beneath your feet, the book's mistake makes the reader skip the best part of pitch 1. The traditional traverse seems at first glance to come to a dead end, but a careful look around the corner reveals good feet and hands for the completion of the pitch. This is the adventurous, fun (and traditional) way to end the pitch, much better than their way, and I know because I recently went their way by mistake, then backed up when I realized I went too high and finished the correct way.
Directissima: Their description of a combined 1st & 2d pitch is often done by people who actually know where the route goes, but such a combination involves skipping a ramp up right to a ledge, and then a traverse from the ledge back towards the arete. The EA book is confusing, telling the reader to go to the ledge (which is off to the right), but then neglecting to include the traverse back, instead sending the reader straight up. It makes no sense.
These are but a few examples. There's a problem with literally every description I've been in a position to judge. What a sucky book.
|
|
|
|
|
andersjr
Aug 20, 2009, 6:28 PM
Post #25 of 26
(9291 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 1, 2005
Posts: 141
|
rgold wrote: andersjr wrote: His Vedauwoo guidebook could arguably be worse. Really? That's his home area; I'd have expected a better result there. His Needles guidebook is poor too, but there are fewer in-print alternatives to it.
Devils Tower
Needles
Gunks
Vedauwoo
Vedauwoo Bouldering (the original author did a great job, but this book was destroyed in the EA editing process)
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
