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welle
Jul 22, 2009, 9:09 PM
Post #26 of 31
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Registered: Aug 8, 2008
Posts: 212
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climbsomething wrote: Skidemon27 wrote: Guran wrote: Simple as that. The complete idiots guide to not dropping the device: 1) Hold atc and belay biner spine with one hand. Open biner gate and remove from gear loop. (*) 2) Still holding on to both device and biner, attach biner to belay loop. 3) Thread the rope through the slot(s) in the device. 4) Open biner gate and insert rope in biner. Should you fumble now, the device is most likely held by rope friction. 5) Lock biner. 6) Done. (*) this is the only time you might drop the device along with the biner. If you are not able to transfer a biner with attached belay device from a gear loop to your belay loop without dropping it, please never ever climb above me or anyone else. did u really have to give a us a play by play?? wats next? proper shoe lace tieing I'm sure a few people on this site would benefit from that too.
yep, like square vs. granny knot: http://www.shoeknots.com/version1/knots.html
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bill413
Jul 23, 2009, 3:26 AM
Post #27 of 31
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Registered: Oct 19, 2004
Posts: 5674
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altelis wrote: bill413 wrote: a-e-jones wrote: MentalTunnel wrote: I am looking for a belay device that can stay attached to the locking biner while while putting a rope on or off. Mark Twight suggests a Bachli Seilbremse which I believe is the below device: http://www.baechli-bergsport.ch/...ssin-Seilbremsen.htm It seems to just have the loop to one side and a way to add another way to secure it so it cannot be dropped. Does anyone know if it is possible to get one in North America? by the sounds of it even you'd manage to drop a hip belay :P  The loop that MT mentions is for using the device in autoblock mode. So, not only are you talking about something that is getting you scorn, but you don't seem to be aware of the uses of the device. *Sigh* You should know how to belay with more than one device. If you are really worried about dropping it, carry 2learn the munter or hip belay. Learn to body belay - very old school, but still very effective (and "better" in some situations). Learn to rig a biner brake so you can rap down. Knowledge is safety. fixdt 
Thnx!
(& nice sig  )
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MentalTunnel
Jul 23, 2009, 3:36 AM
Post #28 of 31
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Registered: Jul 22, 2009
Posts: 7
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Thank you everyone for the help.
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Guran
Jul 23, 2009, 8:16 AM
Post #29 of 31
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Registered: Sep 18, 2008
Posts: 220
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MentalTunnel wrote: Thank you everyone for the help.
Sorry if I sounded a bit harsh before, but my main points are:
* While climbing, there are certainly things you simply must not ever drop. (Most importantly your partner) A belay device can always be substituted by something else and hence does not belong on that list.
* You would only drop a belay device if you fumbled in a situation where you can afford to be systematic. You're at a belay station for Bobs sake! Sure, speed is safety and quick transitions are key yada yada, but speed and carelessness are not the same.
* The only way to drop proof anything is to tether it. Tethers are a freaking hassle that makes it far more likely that you fumble and drop something really important.
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shockabuku
Jul 23, 2009, 12:34 PM
Post #30 of 31
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Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4868
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You can attach and detach an ATC from the rope without removing it from the belay biner. It's just a little more difficult. It requires pulling the bights of rope farther through the belay device to get them over the nose of the biner and adjusting the position of the belay device retention cable to create the room to get the bight through the cable.
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Alpinisto
Jul 23, 2009, 12:50 PM
Post #31 of 31
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Registered: May 11, 2007
Posts: 118
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shockabuku wrote: You can attach and detach an ATC from the rope without removing it from the belay biner. It's just a little more difficult. It requires pulling the bights of rope farther through the belay device to get them over the nose of the biner and adjusting the position of the belay device retention cable to create the room to get the bight through the cable.
^^^This iz korrekt.
And it's what I practice, every time I put/take someone on/off belay. I think I first read about it in Connoly's or Twight's book. After a while it becomes second nature and now dropping my belay device is one less thing to have to worry about.
(Though I do agree with the folks upthread that learning to belay with a Munter is the ultimate "non-droppable" belay device.)
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