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Leave your damn kids at home
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nickrp


Aug 4, 2009, 10:27 AM
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Re: [rockreaver] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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rockreaver wrote:
Oh gosh not you at all. No! Oops. Not you.

I think my comments (not to you at all) were just kind of "in the future" like what will this guy turn out to be like? I think he's going buy climberguy2011 or some such. I was just wondering what type of person he really is.

He just came off here as a really emo, angry person. When he does have kids (I actually hope he does. I hope he does by choice not accident.) he's going to learn how much work it takes to harness all that energy that is a child. Children are not awful but they sure do get a bad rap from people who don't raise theirs with love, compassion, etc...

When people go somewhere (like a crag) and let their kids go insane when other people are around it really makes them look bad or it should. Ironically people go off about the kids. In this case the parents were really the issue. They really were. But gosh even that's subjective. I didn't witness any of it. These kids may not have been that bad at all I have no idea. This guy feels they were though so I might be making a bigger mistake to take his word (I probably am.) for truth.

Anyway, someday this guy might get to try his hand at it. It's not the kids fault. They are really just wanting someone to notice them and take the time to get on their level. When you pay attention to kids the silence tells the tale. When you don't the chaos is hard to ignore unless... Well so anyway.

I just hope this guy does it better when/if it becomes his turn. Parenting is hard. Really hard. But it's fun too. I'm not one of those that thinks it makes you a better person and your a lesser person for not having kids. I don't buy into that. If you need "things" in your life to "make" you a better person then you've got big problems. Life's experiences should by nature make you better and whether you raise kids or don't really doesn't matter at all.

Wow I have rambled. I guess I'm responding to a few thoughts expressed.

To you though... no. Your words to me were kind and I appreciate them a lot. My reply was to you but not about you in the least. I can tell your living your life with a full rack and you have a pretty good idea about how to use it and when. That came right through. So I appreciated your comments a lot. Mine were to you but about the OP.

Hopefully that's more clear now. I meander a lot (I think I write a lot like I climb) and wander around when I'm writing.CrazyLaugh

Hey no problem. I do fully agree with you that raising kids is A LOT of work. I donít know if you saw my previous post, but I worked in a daycare through college and helped raise my wifeís little sister (from the age of 1) and I know firsthand how much work goes into shaping a child into a great little person. And I will admit, itís purely selfish reasons why my wife and I have chosen not to have kids, we both feel like we already have one, and we love the little monster, but we still donít want our own.

I also agree that he should not be mad at the kids for how they act, it is the parents job to reign them in at that age. But as far as the parent talking to him about the swearing, well honestly one, probably heard worse on the local prime time TV, and two I would be more concerned as to my kids action then for their precious ears. But once again, both those issues are the parents fault not the kids.

An I am glad you have your kids out there, it sounds like you brought them up right and I think itís great that there are parents that one will spend time with their kids like my dad did, and that there are still some kids out there that know what discipline is.


lena_chita
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Aug 4, 2009, 10:35 AM
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Re: [camhead] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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camhead wrote:
I'm not going to say much about the original topic. I've seen annoying kids at the crag, I've seen bad parents at the crag. I've also climbed with people who bring their kids to the crag (Lena is one of them), with no calamitous effects..

NO calamitous effects -- you are a diplomat! I thought that weekend was actually the worst that they've been in a long time. I was exhausted by the end of it. And you hadthe car ride to enjoy, as well as the day at the crag... Believe it or not, we made exactly two bathroom stops on the 8-hour drive with the kids... a normal situation. And how many did we have last weekend between C-bus and RRG? I certainly lost count of that. I think it was the last camping trip with the kids this year for me. Since the school is starting in couple weeks, I would probably confine the kid climbing weekends to the local day trips.



camhead wrote:
Given that his username has "2011" in it (probably a graduation date), and that he sprays freshman-level pseudo intellect (overpopulation! I'll NEVER have kids! durrrrr), that he does not have a clear idea of basic genetics or reproduction ("I haven't allowed my chromosomes to join with an X chromosome," wft?), that he sprays on about taking a WFR class (Oh NOEZ! I skinned my knee! Good God get me a WFR!), here's my profile:

You're going to be a sophomore, probably started majoring in biology, switched your major to something like outdoor rec, you probably surround yourself with lesser climbers while boldly hangdogging the bolted 11a's, similarly, you sate your ego by aspiring to some sort of "guiding" job, and You probably have around a B-/C+ GPA. And whether I am right or not, you are going to tell me that you are really smart, and that you climb way better than your profile says.

that was fun.

Good profiling!


rockreaver


Aug 4, 2009, 10:39 AM
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Re: [nickrp] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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Parenting rescued me from a life of traveling at will, having plenty of money whenever I wanted something and generally getting-life-on however I chose. Boy I'm so glad they pulled me out of a life like that. Sounds so awful. Crazy

There's some truth to that... truly. But in return I have a ton of fun packed into 3 human beings sometimes I call them "human bings" bing-bing-bing (yeah lame). I have 3 sherpas. Think of all the boyfriend stories I'll get to hear. Think of the heavy metal CDs I can steal from my son. It's going to be great.

I'll retire poor and raise rich kids to take care of me. Isn't that the real American Dream? Oh damn... wait that's uh going straight up El Caps Nose. (Gosh that sounds awfully strange.)

No seriously! Thanks for the compliments. Good on you for standing in the gap when the 1 year old needed it most. That's awesome.

As far as swearing and whatever. OMG! My kids probably know more swear words than I do. I see all the OMXGYCNFDW stuff here and I have to ask them what it means. Cool

Anyway, some people here got really angry, some people didn't. I cannot help but think we all learned something though. This is one of those posts that is a major groan but maybe a bit of wisdom can be salvaged here and there...Angelic


karmiclimber


Aug 4, 2009, 10:50 AM
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Re: [bigevilgrape] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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I totally agree. As a single mom of a 3 1/2 year old, I would not dream of taking my child on a climbing trip. To the gym? Yes. On a camping trip? Yes. Hiking? Yup.
I would not take her on a climbing trip (yet) because its not the place for a toddler, for numerous reasons:
1. I can't keep an eye on her and concentrate on climbing/belaying...both of those things would need my undivided attention.
2. What if something happens to me or my partner and one of us is injured?
3. Snakes, poison ivy, crag dogs, edges of cliffs...etc
4. What if she starts harassing other climbers who are trying to belay or climb?
Honestly, the whole thing sounds like a mess to me. But when she is older and I do take her, you damn well better believe she will not be running around, screaming and acting all crazy like.


kriso9tails


Aug 4, 2009, 11:10 AM
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Re: [karmiclimber] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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Just out of curiosity, do you have an age in mind?


karmiclimber


Aug 4, 2009, 11:19 AM
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Re: [kriso9tails] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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I don't have an age in mind. I'm thinking six or seven...but I'll be watching her for the maturity that would be necessary for a climbing trip. Every child is different...some are ready sooner, some later. I will probably be asking my doctor also...I'm thinking in terms of, if the worst happens (she gets bitten by a copperhead and there is a 30 minute hike out...) will she be able to tolerate it like an adult. Could she get hurt/bitten by a snake, etc, playing outside? Well, yes, but its far more unlikely and the hospital is a couple minutes ride in the car down the road. To me, its using common sense as a parent. That said, I don't judge...other people are in different situations and their children are different. To me, parenting comes first, because it was a decision of responsibility that I made. Climbing has to come second...that doesn't mean I don't want to expose my daughter to climbing...which is why I take her to the gym. I might take her to a place like the Columns in Eugene Oregon (drive up crag, zero approach, easy access to hospital), but other than that, no. My own thoughts as a parent.


bobbj22


Aug 4, 2009, 11:24 AM
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Re: [shockabuku] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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In reply to:
In reply to:
You chose to have children or are just lucky (or unlucky depending on your mentality) so in doing so you silently agreed that you were gonna give some things up.

Nope, never did.

Maybe you're forcing your opinions on child rearing on other people.

Maybe your a selfish prick for choosing to pursue the all the freedoms you enjoyed when you didn't have children. That's so unfair to your kids. You have to give things up for them; they're yours afterall. Your priorities are fucked up and you need to figure them out. The kids come first, not you.


budman


Aug 4, 2009, 11:33 AM
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Re: [karmiclimber] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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Wish my Mom had taken me climbing when I was 3 1/2. That's why I took my kids when they were very young. If you take you children climbing, then climb with them. If you are there to climb then leave them home, unless there is adult supervision. For those not very tolerant of children, act like an adult and pick somewhere else to climb. Give the kids their day, there will be another day for your project. As to the language thing, if you can't see why it's wrong and can't respect that then you probably have no respect for your self as well. Oh yeh, taking your kids outside to climb is one of the best things for you and them.


majid_sabet


Aug 4, 2009, 11:42 AM
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Re: [budman] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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several weeks ago while hiking on a popular trail, I ran in to a completely naked 3-4 years old boy playing behind the rock with no parents in sight.

So I yell to nearest person in the trial if they know who this kid was belonging to and she said oh yaa, his parents are over there. Then i said; call them up and let come and get this kid or or I will be taking him down.

A minute later,some ignorant lady comes and says, yes that is my boy and what seems to be the problem ?

i reply nothing seems to be a problem but kids do disappear which make s a CF of hell for others to find your kid then she goes come on boy and kids run toward the trail. then she tells her husband; hey jeff, can you watch the boy while boy is running toward class 2 river.

WTF

So I ran in to guy and told him that river kills people in 1 minute so you may want to stop your kid from getting near it and the guy was so fucking relax like he did not give a sh*t if his kid died.

well, if that is you up there then do not bring your kid cause you will piss off people.


karmiclimber


Aug 4, 2009, 12:05 PM
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Re: [budman] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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YOU wish YOUR mom had taken you. I'm not saying your kids don't like it or don't want to go...but taking them because that was your wish is the wrong motive. I wish my mom had taken me also...and camping and hiking and biking and all of that other stuff I love. But, for example, my daughter is afraid of heights (LMAO every climbing parents worst nightmare, eh?) so I go with it. She loves going biking with me though, so I take her. I agree with the rest of your post though.


shockabuku


Aug 4, 2009, 12:08 PM
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Re: [bobbj22] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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bobbj22 wrote:
In reply to:
In reply to:
You chose to have children or are just lucky (or unlucky depending on your mentality) so in doing so you silently agreed that you were gonna give some things up.

Nope, never did.

Maybe you're forcing your opinions on child rearing on other people.

Maybe your a selfish prick for choosing to pursue the all the freedoms you enjoyed when you didn't have children. That's so unfair to your kids. You have to give things up for them; they're yours afterall. Your priorities are fucked up and you need to figure them out. The kids come first, not you.

There you go again, putting your opinions of things onto other people.

So I should stay home and take care of my kids. And not have a job? What shall I feed them with? What shall I do when I'm so stressed out by doing nothing but taking care of them that I want to kill them? Do I go to work? Well, how often? Oh please tell me oh fountain of wisdom.

I have four kids, based on your posts, I'd say they're all more thoughtful, intelligent, and well behaved than you.


karmiclimber


Aug 4, 2009, 12:13 PM
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Re: [shockabuku] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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I disagree with you. If you can't tell the difference between daycare because you have to work and the inherent dangers of climbing (that your kids did not ask for) AND there ARE things you have to give up as a parent, then you probably do not have the common sense to be a parent, let alone a climber. I'm not saying to teach them to stay at home and learn to knit and watch TV all day, but there is a difference between raising them in a bubble and exposing them to dangerous situations that they aren't able to handle. This is why kids don't drive. Or hang out in bars...Climbing is a serious, adult situation for adults. Thats not to say you can't teach them to climb...just be smart about it. And less selfish?


(This post was edited by karmiclimber on Aug 4, 2009, 12:14 PM)


shockabuku


Aug 4, 2009, 12:18 PM
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Re: [karmiclimber] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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karmiclimber wrote:
I disagree with you. If you can't tell the difference between daycare because you have to work and the inherent dangers of climbing (that your kids did not ask for) AND there ARE things you have to give up as a parent, then you probably do not have the common sense to be a parent, let alone a climber. I'm not saying to teach them to stay at home and learn to knit and watch TV all day, but there is a difference between raising them in a bubble and exposing them to dangerous situations that they aren't able to handle. This is why kids don't drive. Or hang out in bars...Climbing is a serious, adult situation for adults. Thats not to say you can't teach them to climb...just be smart about it. And less selfish?

What is selfish about what I've said?

Oh yeah, and this is still my life too.


shockabuku


Aug 4, 2009, 12:19 PM
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Re: [bobbj22] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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I forgot to add that 3/4 of my kids climb better than you too.


gmggg


Aug 4, 2009, 12:20 PM
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Re: [durangoclimber] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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In reply to:
The FU is hardly enough. What a jackass. My kids started when they were two (yes two). They have grown into incredible kids, climbers, and friends to even some adults. They are very well behaved. Your elitist attitude sucks. Hope you climb here in Durango someday so my little 12 y/o bad ass can climb circles around your punk ass.

These are getting to be too much. The OP's comments were a little harshly stated/trollish and I'm sure your elitist attitudes about your kids climbing ability is accurate, but as many others have said there is a big difference between kids at a crag actually climbing and unsupervised toddlers at a crag misbehaving.

Why is it that someones annoyance with a particular set of children is seen as an attack on all of your babies?

Why do so many of you think that countering with the climbing abilities of your 8-13 year olds has any relevance to the OP's topic?


Basta916


Aug 4, 2009, 12:23 PM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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majid_sabet wrote:
several weeks ago while hiking on a popular trail, I ran in to a completely naked 3-4 years old boy playing behind the rock with no parents in sight.

So I yell to nearest person in the trial if they know who this kid was belonging to and she said oh yaa, his parents are over there. Then i said; call them up and let come and get this kid or or I will be taking him down.

A minute later,some ignorant lady comes and says, yes that is my boy and what seems to be the problem ?

i reply nothing seems to be a problem but kids do disappear which make s a CF of hell for others to find your kid then she goes come on boy and kids run toward the trail. then she tells her husband; hey jeff, can you watch the boy while boy is running toward class 2 river.

WTF

So I ran in to guy and told him that river kills people in 1 minute so you may want to stop your kid from getting near it and the guy was so fucking relax like he did not give a sh*t if his kid died.

well, if that is you up there then do not bring your kid cause you will piss off people.

holly crap Majid.. this must be your first post that makes sense...

and to all parents out there that think " my kid is an angel!!!Angelic" If thats your mindset, you are delusional.Wake up. Remember the way you were.
kids are only good if they first learned to listen and behave.
Kids are welcome if they behave, and it's parents/guardians job to make sure of that. Not everyone has to enjoy your screaming brat...Do your job. If you have them , take care of them. Same goes for dogs.


budman


Aug 4, 2009, 12:29 PM
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Re: [karmiclimber] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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I was lucky, my chidlren like climbing. After being a parent for 30 years they still climb with their dad. Not as often as I would like but we still hang at the crag when possible. The coolest thing was that they became part of the community and still are, in their own way. As parents it's important to introduce our children to different things in order for them to be more well rounded individuals. Like I said, I was lucky they liked climbing. The smiles on our faces when we climb together tell it all. Hope your daughter ends up a climber so she and you can share the time and the passion. One generation giving to the next.


wjca


Aug 4, 2009, 12:58 PM
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Re: [subantz] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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subantz wrote:
Swearing does make you look kools. I dont like or dislike kids, but would rather not be around them climbing. Simply because swear sometimes, Ok alot, and the last thing I want to hear is," HEY watch your mouth there are kids here." Like I give a shit. I usually tell parents in this case. I am not going to watch what I say I am not in court or church. Like you would find me in church anyways. They usually pack up. If the kids are a real pain just swear like you have torrets. If the parents yell at you Yell back. Show those little fuckers that you have a freedom of speech and you intend on exercising your right. This thould help fuel your fireAngelic

Congratulations. You may be a bigger douche than the OP.


IsayAutumn


Aug 4, 2009, 1:02 PM
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Re: [wjca] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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wjca wrote:
subantz wrote:
Swearing does make you look kools. I dont like or dislike kids, but would rather not be around them climbing. Simply because swear sometimes, Ok alot, and the last thing I want to hear is," HEY watch your mouth there are kids here." Like I give a shit. I usually tell parents in this case. I am not going to watch what I say I am not in court or church. Like you would find me in church anyways. They usually pack up. If the kids are a real pain just swear like you have torrets. If the parents yell at you Yell back. Show those little fuckers that you have a freedom of speech and you intend on exercising your right. This thould help fuel your fireAngelic

Congratulations. You may be a bigger douche than the OP.



Kids suck.


bobbj22


Aug 4, 2009, 1:06 PM
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In reply to:
There you go again, putting your opinions of things onto other people.

So I should stay home and take care of my kids. And not have a job? What shall I feed them with? What shall I do when I'm so stressed out by doing nothing but taking care of them that I want to kill them? Do I go to work? Well, how often? Oh please tell me oh fountain of wisdom.

I have four kids, based on your posts, I'd say they're all more thoughtful, intelligent, and well behaved than you.


Job is an essential you fucktard. If you can't support your family enough to keep them happy then you are failing miserably. When you're a parent, you must think about your kids first (i.e. if I fell on an approach 10 years ago and broke my ankle it would hurt. If I fell now it would hurt, I wouldn't be able to work, and I wouldn't be able to play with my kids or do work around the house. As a post earlier noted, you see things differently. This is perfect example.

As for your model kids, that's great I hope they pass on the torch by looking out for number 1 first just like ol pops.


In reply to:
I forgot to add that 3/4 of my kids climb better than you too.

I could care less what your kids climb. I don't update my climbing logs because I could give a shit less what waterheads like you think. If your kids are as impressive as you think they could beat me in a mile run. You are acting like those annoying people who always want to whip out their wallets and shove pictures of their kids in my face. Those people crack me up.


dingus


Aug 4, 2009, 1:08 PM
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Re: [kriso9tails] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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kriso9tails wrote:
dingus wrote:
Bitch all you want - it changes nothing. Our kids bother you more than they bother us. We are way worse than dog people.

DMT

You implying there's something wrong with dog-people?

[img]http://www.billpullman.org/film/spaceballs/S3.jpg[/img]

Space Balls. I want to go to Ridiculous Speed!

DMT


dingus


Aug 4, 2009, 1:12 PM
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Re: [rockreaver] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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rockreaver wrote:
Parenting rescued me from a life of traveling at will, having plenty of money whenever I wanted something and generally getting-life-on however I chose. Boy I'm so glad they pulled me out of a life like that. Sounds so awful. Crazy

There's some truth to that... truly. But in return I have a ton of fun packed into 3 human beings sometimes I call them "human bings"

At a basic level our pleasure and fun are irrelevant of course. Our DNA wants to reproduce and we either heed the call or we do not.

Everyhthing else is just detail. The breeders ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS win.

Always.

Non breeders are irrelevant, and the end of the cycle. Dirt to dirt.

DMT


rockreaver


Aug 4, 2009, 1:25 PM
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I didn't want kids at all. It was kind of weird. I felt like a freak of nature because I didn't. I never told my wife but she knew. I had different ambitions and I wanted to pursue them. Then there was a terrific accident - The End - and I kind of fell apart as a person. She still wanted kids and I didn't.

I just went along with it though as I thought maybe I'd grow into it or something. (I was too farking young to know better.) We had them. Because of them I realized I had a lot of serious issues. In time I've worked through most of them.

Now I really enjoy having them. They mean the world to me. I parent just like my parents did and life continues. My kids are "bomber" kids. I just think they are so great.

But I didn't want them at first. However I knew when I agreed to "sire" them that I was there good and bad and they'd have a father from then on.

I've tried to do a good job of that but it's certainly a learning process. I'd say that I do a good job though. I get compliments everywhere we take them about how well they behave. They really do too. When I lean on them and give them the "Quiet or Die" order they tidy right up. I don't do a lot of that though and in our home I think mayhem is a lot of fun. I really let them cut loose. They better not break anything (usually I do that playing dodge ball with them).

I'll build them all sorts of crazy stuff and we have fun.

I believe that desire to reproduce wasn't there for me. However... I have an extremely strong desire to "practice" and well...Blush

So yeah. Life goes on. The world turns. Snow melts.

I like the song by Smashmouth "All Star" it's how I try to live. Cheryl Crow's "Winding Road" is a good tune too but my favorite is Twisted Sister, "We're Not Gonna Take It".

So I wouldn't say I'm a mindless conformist. In fact I'm a bit of an anarchist. I question authority a lot.

What the hell was I saying?

Oh yeah. I didn't want them either but they've grown on me. They keep me poor. I could have a full trad rack with all the fixin's but instead I've got a set of stoppers, well adjusted kids and a happy life. Wink

Dirt to Dirt - Somehow there's got to be some Monty Python in there somewhere...


shockabuku


Aug 4, 2009, 1:47 PM
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Re: [bobbj22] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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bobbj22 wrote:
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There you go again, putting your opinions of things onto other people.

So I should stay home and take care of my kids. And not have a job? What shall I feed them with? What shall I do when I'm so stressed out by doing nothing but taking care of them that I want to kill them? Do I go to work? Well, how often? Oh please tell me oh fountain of wisdom.

I have four kids, based on your posts, I'd say they're all more thoughtful, intelligent, and well behaved than you.


Job is an essential you fucktard. If you can't support your family enough to keep them happy then you are failing miserably. When you're a parent, you must think about your kids first (i.e. if I fell on an approach 10 years ago and broke my ankle it would hurt. If I fell now it would hurt, I wouldn't be able to work, and I wouldn't be able to play with my kids or do work around the house. As a post earlier noted, you see things differently. This is perfect example.

As for your model kids, that's great I hope they pass on the torch by looking out for number 1 first just like ol pops.


In reply to:
I forgot to add that 3/4 of my kids climb better than you too.

I could care less what your kids climb. I don't update my climbing logs because I could give a shit less what waterheads like you think. If your kids are as impressive as you think they could beat me in a mile run. You are acting like those annoying people who always want to whip out their wallets and shove pictures of their kids in my face. Those people crack me up.

You are rather simple minded.


dingus


Aug 4, 2009, 2:03 PM
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Re: [rockreaver] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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I didn't want kids and said so, all through my 20s. I partied instead. Like it was 1999, ddeja vu all over again.

30ish rolled around and MY bio clock kicked in...

I said to my girl of 9-years: what say we get married and have a couple of kids?

Presto quicko.... (I climbed Lucky Streaks in Tuolumne Meadows on the day my kid was born, coming up on 18 years ago, in just two weeks now)

I still party like its 1999 though. Wear the same clothes too. Even the underwear.

DMT

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