I'm going to break my silence here.

I think it is inappropriate to bring 3 children up to a destination crag on a weekend. Children are more suited to being at smaller crags with fewer people. And I think it takes a lot of gull to criticize someone for swearing just because they have kids with them. Its an adult location and Rumney is a place people take big trips to. I see no reason why anyone should have to change their behavior because you decided to bring your children to an adult location.


Invalid: I know the difficulties in finding overnight childcare because I have been the one watching peoples kids many times, but what the hell. You CHOSE to have kids so you chose to take on this challenge. (We won't go into my thoughts for people who didn't chose to have their kids) Sometimes you have to put off a climbing trip and wait until the kids are old enough to behave safely and appropriately for that trip

The other problem I see in this picture is 3 toddlers and 3 adults. Its one thing to bring one toddler out to the crag, but 3? That's asking for trouble. At a place where there is very little room at the bottom of the crag and with 3 little ones running around someone is gonna take a digger over the edge and go tumbling down the very steep hill behind them.

I don't think its a question of leaving all kids at home, its about knowing when it is appropriate to bring them with you. To me this is a case where it was clearly inappropriate as well as unsafe. And to be honest I see more parents who don't know how to deal with their kids when they take them climbing then those who do. (Which is exactly how I feel about crag dogs since people feel the need to draw similarities)

And for the love of god if you don't want your children to hear anyone swear then you shouldn't take them to places you know there will be swearing.

I'm not completely surprised that you would support the singularly selfish perspective here, but I am somewhat surprised that you don't have more empathy for those who have children.

Curt

I agree that people should'nt have kids unless they have thought through the rumifications of that decision and are willing to accept the resonsibilities that come with that decision. Idon't agree with the rest. Children learn by doing...

Wish my Mom had taken me climbing when I was 3 1/2. That's why I took my kids when they were very young. If you take you children climbing, then climb with them. If you are there to climb then leave them home, unless there is adult supervision. For those not very tolerant of children, act like an adult and pick somewhere else to climb. Give the kids their day, there will be another day for your project. As to the language thing, if you can't see why it's wrong and can't respect that then you probably have no respect for your self as well. Oh yeh, taking your kids outside to climb is one of the best things for you and them.

Amen brother. The guy who posted seemed more concerned about the safety of the kids then the three soccer moms who were neglecting them. I'm sick of parents assuming higher moral ground because......they're parents(?) So some critter crawled out your vag! congratulations! You parents are superior to all of us non-parents. You can procreate? We're all impressed. All the BS about "you can't possibly appreciate the challenges of parenthood...blah blah.. daycare..etc" I do appreciate the challenges and expenses of raising children, that's why I've decided to live my life without them. Go ahead parents, tell me my life is worthless, unfullfilled, and empty. We non-parents have heard all that propaganda before. In ten years those three women will be spending every weekend at soccer or field hockey or baseball games. They'll be socking away every dime for college, praying their daughters don't get pregnant, and wondering when their son will crash their car. While we, my non-parent friends and I, will still be singing our favorite tune -- "I'm so glad I don't have children", buying shiny new cams and taking expensive overseas climbing trips with money that would have been wasted on some brat's college education.

In a complete coincidence, Saturday at the Home Depot i took out some kid with my cart full of lumber. Actually, he ran straight into the 2x4 on my cart, and there was nothing I could have done to prevent it. Seriously. I was horrified. Especially when I realized Dad was about 6'3" 250. He was not damaged, maybe just a small dent in his skull

I really like kids, it's the bad parents that get to me.

I tolerate well behaved kids

I still party like its 1999 though. Wear the same clothes too. Even the underwear.

YOU are rather empty-minded.

Well that's mighty big of you. Now I shall tolerate you.

Subject to new information of course.

DMT

Should people tolerate folks letting their cells ring in movies, talking to their friends loudly while others are trying to watch? Should parents bring small children to movies they aren't actually there to watch but rather be dragged along as accessories?

I don't get why people keep bringing up WELL BEHAVED children.. this isn't what the OP was talking about. These kids were spastic, crying, danger to themselves with little to no reprimand.

Leave your children at home. They do not belong at the crag, and by bringing them, you are not only ruining someone else's good time, you are putting them in a hazardous environment where the supervision is distracted by ideations of sending some sick 5.9 routes.

....where the supervision is distracted by ideations of sending some sick 5.9 routes.

Keep your fucking kids at home.

Leave the little bastards at home

don't fucking care how cute they look in their little full body harness, or if they are the next chris fucking sharma.

I totally agree. As a single mom of a 3 1/2 year old, I would not dream of taking my child on a climbing trip. To the gym? Yes. On a camping trip? Yes. Hiking? Yup.
I would not take her on a climbing trip (yet) because its not the place for a toddler, for numerous reasons:
1. I can't keep an eye on her and concentrate on climbing/belaying...both of those things would need my undivided attention..

2. What if something happens to me or my partner and one of us is injured?.

3. Snakes, poison ivy, crag dogs, edges of cliffs...etc?.

4. What if she starts harassing other climbers who are trying to belay or climb?

Honestly, the whole thing sounds like a mess to me. But when she is older and I do take her, you damn well better believe she will not be running around, screaming and acting all crazy like.

Wow, This thread has gone crazy.

I'll bring my stupid lab next time and let her run amuck every where. She can have a great outdoor experience. Sure she'll be a pain in the ass.. she loves chasing things.. digging in the dirt, eating anything she can find at or below face level. she really loves barking at people and other dogs and doesn't seem to have a limit to how long she can keep it up. If parents let their kids do what they want, why should i not let my dog?

Iand the kids were still rather loud and disruptive to other people, though less so than the first case, b/c the parents were very vigilant. In this particular case I happen to know that the kids have certain ADHD and Aspergers issues.

These kids were spastic, crying, danger to themselves with little to no reprimand.

there looks to have been no.. "teaching about nature, wilderness experience, outdoor adventure"

it sounds like it was we're going to climb, you sit there with out friend and we'll talk to you in a few hours.

Re: Wonderwoman. Tiff you know as well as i do that the scenario described is not the status quo for Rumney. I've seen far more clusterfucks at the gunks than i have at Rumney and i've been at Rumney like 200 times more than the gunks.

Not having read through this entire (stupid) thread, I may end up getting GU'd here, but did the OP's post talk about these kids pissing on other people's packs, eating their food, etc?

They're people, Jake. Kids, sure, but people nonetheless, and they have as much right to be at any given public location as you do.

A public crag is not the sole property of climbers, no matter how important or selfish you are, Jake.

No, it's not a business but people do spend plenty of money driving there and camping to stay there. It is a public place