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jakedatc
Aug 5, 2009, 12:40 AM
Post #176 of 357
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blueeyedclimber wrote: jakedatc wrote: These kids were spastic, crying, danger to themselves with little to no reprimand. According to the op. Are you really going to take someone's side who refers to children as little bastards? In reply to: there looks to have been no.. "teaching about nature, wilderness experience, outdoor adventure" Once again, according to the op. In reply to: it sounds like it was we're going to climb, you sit there with out friend and we'll talk to you in a few hours. see above. In reply to: Re: Wonderwoman. Tiff you know as well as i do that the scenario described is not the status quo for Rumney. I've seen far more clusterfucks at the gunks than i have at Rumney and i've been at Rumney like 200 times more than the gunks. THe Gunks do indeed have clusterfucks, but they are usually centralized in a few locations, whereas any gym n00b can throw themselves at any route at Rumney without worrying too much about anything. Now, don't take this too much to heart. The one or two times Tiff and I go to Rumney a year, we have a blast, but to say it's not a zoo on the weekends is not Korect, sir! Josh 
Last 2 weekends i've been to Rumney it has not been a zoo and i've not had to wait in line for anything i wanted to get on. regardless of grade. I skip parking lot and meadows if they are busy in the AM or do 1-2 warm ups and move on. ask Jay, Matt, kate etc.. they were there. CF's are centralized at rumney too. parking lot.. meadows.. 5.8 crag.. use your feet and head and you can find an empty crag. Ever been to Pulse? awesome routes.. ghost town.
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gmggg
Aug 5, 2009, 12:42 AM
Post #177 of 357
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In reply to: I like the song by Smashmouth "All Star" it's how I try to live. Cheryl Crow's "Winding Road" is a good tune too but my favorite is Twisted Sister, "We're Not Gonna Take It".
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Enjoy climbing with your kids, but please don't teach them about music.
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dingus
Aug 5, 2009, 12:42 AM
Post #178 of 357
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jakedatc wrote: and EXACTLY, The crag is for everyone.. which means I or anyone else shouldn't have to have a shitty time
LOL!
In reply to: .. or have to move to a different crag because some parent's can't get their kids to stfu or make a complete clusterfuck of the base.
I feel the same way when I'm at a place like Table Mtn and a large group of climbers show up loud talking. OK, I don't feel the same way, I don't feel as though my personal requirements should dictate their behavior. Its my partner Angus - soon as a large group shows up he's all SEEYA.
Maybe you should follow him?
In reply to: not sure how i'm being selfish saying that 1 set of parents shouldn't ruin a whole crag by their inattentiveness.
Well, reread the snippets I quoted from you above and fester on it a bit, I think yu'll see how some might interpret your reply in selfish terms.
Tolerance!
DMT
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reno
Aug 5, 2009, 12:53 AM
Post #179 of 357
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jakedatc wrote: I actually wont bring her, she belongs to my parents and she was (not) trained while i was at college so she can't be trusted anywhere.
Well, I could fix that for ya. Cost ya a 12 pack of beer and three days of guided climbing in New England. Camhead, Climbsomething, and a few others can vouch for my ability to train a proper crag dog. Let me know.
In reply to: But neither could these children with the present supervision, clearly.
At the risk of repeating someone else here, "According to the OP."
In reply to: and EXACTLY, The crag is for everyone.. which means I or anyone else shouldn't have to have a shitty time.. or have to move to a different crag because some parent's can't get their kids to stfu or make a complete clusterfuck of the base.
But neither are you guaranteed a good time, peace and quiet, or a clean environment. What makes your rights to have a crag without annoying kids any greater than the rights of a parent (or parents) to bring their kids outdoors for a day?
In reply to: not sure how i'm being selfish saying that 1 set of parents shouldn't ruin a whole crag by their inattentiveness.
Because you're saying, essentially, "What these other people are doing is annoying to me. Make it stop, so I can have the day I want to have!"
I don't really like people in general. Chalk it up to too many years of being lied to, mistreated, and taken for granted. Hell, call me an old curmudgeonly bastard. I don't care.
The point is that when I want a peaceful day climbing, I don't go to a popular local crag (and we have plenty here in the Denver area.) I go where there are no people. If, forbid, I should decide to go to a popular local crag, I accept that there might... nay, WILL... be people there that will most probably annoy me.
And I damn sure wouldn't judge someone for bringing their kids outside for a day. We need more of that, and less parents plopping their kid in front of a TV with the PS2 or a DVD.
YMMV.
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dynosore
Aug 5, 2009, 12:53 AM
Post #180 of 357
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curt wrote: climbsomething wrote: He is so going to beat your brittle ass at the father-son picnic. Hehehe. His pediatrician says he will be 6' 6" when he's fully grown, so I have definitely considered that possibility. Curt
Yeah...I was 5'8" in 7th grade and grew all the way to....5'10"  . Stop feeding him now and you still have a chance!
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wideguy
Aug 5, 2009, 1:02 AM
Post #181 of 357
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reno wrote: plopping their kid in front of a TV with the PS2 or a DVD. YMMV.
EXACTLY!! That's I'm not taking my kids until I have enough money to buy them a portable DVD to park them in front of at the crag, so they don't bother anyone.
I'm considerate that way!
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MikeSaint
Aug 5, 2009, 1:07 AM
Post #182 of 357
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You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
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lena_chita
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Aug 5, 2009, 1:12 AM
Post #183 of 357
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karmiclimber wrote: Lena, none of what I said was aimed at you. You seem to know what you are doing...and you have a good situation with people watching children at all times. It just seems like some people have zero common sense when it comes to kids and climbing. Or kids in general. But like I said in my one post...every situation and child is different.
I did not think you were aiming at me, but I was responding to you... You know your child better, so if she is not ready for the crag, she is not ready.
OTOH, I felt that my son was not ready for any sort of camping for a long time (forget climbing, I am not talking about climbing here, just family camping), so the first time he went camping with us he was almost 6yo, and in retrospect it was an overkill on my part. He was not ready as a toddler b/c he had no chance to ever get ready for it. My younger one was 18 months at the time she went camping for the first time, and she was just as ready for it as my older child was. Yet, if I had applied the same criteria to her and waited until she was 6 yo, or some other arbitrary cut-off number, we wouldn't have gone camping all these years, and they wouldn't have had a chance to have some really good times.
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jakedatc
Aug 5, 2009, 1:23 AM
Post #184 of 357
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reno wrote: jakedatc wrote: I actually wont bring her, she belongs to my parents and she was (not) trained while i was at college so she can't be trusted anywhere. Well, I could fix that for ya. Cost ya a 12 pack of beer and three days of guided climbing in New England. Camhead, Climbsomething, and a few others can vouch for my ability to train a proper crag dog. Let me know. In reply to: But neither could these children with the present supervision, clearly. At the risk of repeating someone else here, "According to the OP." In reply to: and EXACTLY, The crag is for everyone.. which means I or anyone else shouldn't have to have a shitty time.. or have to move to a different crag because some parent's can't get their kids to stfu or make a complete clusterfuck of the base. But neither are you guaranteed a good time, peace and quiet, or a clean environment. What makes your rights to have a crag without annoying kids any greater than the rights of a parent (or parents) to bring their kids outdoors for a day? In reply to: not sure how i'm being selfish saying that 1 set of parents shouldn't ruin a whole crag by their inattentiveness. Because you're saying, essentially, "What these other people are doing is annoying to me. Make it stop, so I can have the day I want to have!" I don't really like people in general. Chalk it up to too many years of being lied to, mistreated, and taken for granted. Hell, call me an old curmudgeonly bastard. I don't care. The point is that when I want a peaceful day climbing, I don't go to a popular local crag (and we have plenty here in the Denver area.) I go where there are no people. If, forbid, I should decide to go to a popular local crag, I accept that there might... nay, WILL... be people there that will most probably annoy me. And I damn sure wouldn't judge someone for bringing their kids outside for a day. We need more of that, and less parents plopping their kid in front of a TV with the PS2 or a DVD. YMMV.
buy your own beer, i'll take you to Rumney for free, and skip the damn dog.. i'd rather go climbing. Ask Epock, Doc, WMD, Biner etc can vouch for my sport guiding ability.
for the record i don't have issues with kids at the crag. But if they are making a huge scene with no parental intervention to stop it and they are doing things that are unsafe then i'm not cool with it.
I agree they should be outside more.. but attended .. not just left to cry and hate it there.. i don't think that makes the outdoors very appealing. going out and being involved and having their parents show them stuff.. take them walking around. that would have encouraged the kids to want to come back.
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bigevilgrape
Aug 5, 2009, 1:26 AM
Post #185 of 357
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dingus wrote: But screaming, running around like kids, throwing stones....
no, throwing stones is not ok. Throwing anything that you find "in nature" is not ok. If I see you pick something up off the ground and throw it (at a crag) I will rip you a new one. that is a huge safty issue. Lets say child is climbing up at Jimmy cliff picks up a baseball sized rock and chucks it tward the valley, over Wiamea and hits someone in the head. THIS IS NOT acceptable.
Running isn't a safe game to be playing at Rumney either. There isn't a ton of room at the bottoms of the cliffs and the drop off after the trail is steep. The crags are stacked on top of each other. The OP said the kid took a digger running around, well he's damn lucky he didn't fall off the back side of the little area where the tent is set up.
I don't understand how y ou can "agree with the safety issues" when you say running around and throwing rocks is OK for kids to do at a crag because both of these are huge safety issues, for the kids and the other climbers.
EDIT: This is only aplicable when you are at a climbing area, I don't care what you do elsewhere.
(This post was edited by bigevilgrape on Aug 5, 2009, 3:01 AM)
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MikeSaint
Aug 5, 2009, 1:30 AM
Post #186 of 357
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Wait whats this?
When your baby shits the diaper you can just dump it in the woods because its biodegradable?
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bennydh
Aug 5, 2009, 1:42 AM
Post #187 of 357
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Sounds legit. Maybe if its in a hole 6 inches deep, away from drinking water... yadda yadda.
Go do some adventure climbing, that takes backpacking to get to.
Or get a poorly trained dog of a violent breed and start taking it to the crag, but neglect it like a whinny child when it doesn't play nice with the other children. Then post rant here after lawsuit.
Or tie a couple of whinning wanker kids together, show one how to belay the rest how to back up belay, and have yourself a good dynamic/soft catch for falls. Sounds cushy to me.
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rockandlice
Aug 5, 2009, 1:52 AM
Post #188 of 357
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If a Baby falls off the top of a crag and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?
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reno
Aug 5, 2009, 1:55 AM
Post #189 of 357
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jakedatc wrote: buy your own beer,
Yankee hospitality at it's finest.
In reply to: i'll take you to Rumney for free, and skip the damn dog.. i'd rather go climbing. Ask Epock, Doc, WMD, Biner etc can vouch for my sport guiding ability.
"Sport guiding ability" = "Follow the bolts."
In reply to: for the record i don't have issues with kids at the crag. But if they are making a huge scene with no parental intervention to stop it and they are doing things that are unsafe then i'm not cool with it.
Sounds like you have a problem with the adults/parents, not the kids.
Which is fine. I have a problem with most adults, too. Yet, as a non-parent, I don't feel I have the position to tell someone that their parenting sucks. I haven't been a parent, so I don't know what it's like. And, thus, won't presume to be able to tell someone "You're doing it wrong!"
Again... YMMV.
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blueeyedclimber
Aug 5, 2009, 2:08 AM
Post #190 of 357
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jakedatc wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: jakedatc wrote: These kids were spastic, crying, danger to themselves with little to no reprimand. According to the op. Are you really going to take someone's side who refers to children as little bastards? In reply to: there looks to have been no.. "teaching about nature, wilderness experience, outdoor adventure" Once again, according to the op. In reply to: it sounds like it was we're going to climb, you sit there with out friend and we'll talk to you in a few hours. see above. In reply to: Re: Wonderwoman. Tiff you know as well as i do that the scenario described is not the status quo for Rumney. I've seen far more clusterfucks at the gunks than i have at Rumney and i've been at Rumney like 200 times more than the gunks. THe Gunks do indeed have clusterfucks, but they are usually centralized in a few locations, whereas any gym n00b can throw themselves at any route at Rumney without worrying too much about anything. Now, don't take this too much to heart. The one or two times Tiff and I go to Rumney a year, we have a blast, but to say it's not a zoo on the weekends is not Korect, sir! Josh Last 2 weekends i've been to Rumney it has not been a zoo and i've not had to wait in line for anything i wanted to get on. regardless of grade. I skip parking lot and meadows if they are busy in the AM or do 1-2 warm ups and move on. ask Jay, Matt, kate etc.. they were there. CF's are centralized at rumney too. parking lot.. meadows.. 5.8 crag.. use your feet and head and you can find an empty crag. Ever been to Pulse? awesome routes.. ghost town.
That's all well and good. But, RUmney aside, the op is an asshole. Period. Children 5 and under can hardly be blamed for their behavior. Parents should role-model, modify behavior, punish if appropriate and show unconditional love for their children. If this is not enough to entice these children to act appropriately then you are right, maybe they shouldn't be bringing them to the crag. Troll or not, the original post comes from someone with serious emotional and psychological problems and he needs to seek professional help.
Oh yeah, and Rumney sucks!
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dingus
Aug 5, 2009, 2:09 AM
Post #191 of 357
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bigevilgrape wrote: dingus wrote: But screaming, running around like kids, throwing stones.... no, throwing stones is not ok. Throwing anything that you find "in nature" is not ok.
Evil humans, BOOOOO!
DMT
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dingus
Aug 5, 2009, 2:12 AM
Post #192 of 357
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bigevilgrape wrote: I don't understand how y ou can "agree with the safety issues" when you say running around and throwing rocks is OK for kids to do at a crag because both of these are huge safety issues, for the kids and the other climbers.
I'm just not an all or nothing guy like you. I can envision kids at a cliff safely tossing some stones. I can see some kids at a cliff being kids and running around.
I can also see the opposite.
"How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?"
Cheers
DMT
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jakedatc
Aug 5, 2009, 2:15 AM
Post #193 of 357
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reno wrote: jakedatc wrote: buy your own beer, Yankee hospitality at it's finest. In reply to: i'll take you to Rumney for free, and skip the damn dog.. i'd rather go climbing. Ask Epock, Doc, WMD, Biner etc can vouch for my sport guiding ability. "Sport guiding ability" = "Follow the bolts." In reply to: for the record i don't have issues with kids at the crag. But if they are making a huge scene with no parental intervention to stop it and they are doing things that are unsafe then i'm not cool with it. Sounds like you have a problem with the adults/parents, not the kids. Which is fine. I have a problem with most adults, too. Yet, as a non-parent, I don't feel I have the position to tell someone that their parenting sucks. I haven't been a parent, so I don't know what it's like. And, thus, won't presume to be able to tell someone "You're doing it wrong!" Again... YMMV.
yes follow the bolts.. but which lines suck and which don't.. which aren't even in the 8 year old book.. hmm can you get from Crag A to Crag C ? you can wander around or you can get high volume.
you're right.. the parents are the issue... kids don't know they are doing something wrong unless you tell them in a way that makes them understand that it's wrong. So if they cannot parent correctly in a way that is respectful to the others around them then they should not bring your children.
maybe i've just grown up not wanting to be "that guy" .. these folks clearly were "that guy" and i'd be embarrassed to be part of their group.
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kriso9tails
Aug 5, 2009, 2:23 AM
Post #194 of 357
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bigevilgrape wrote: I don't understand how y ou can "agree with the safety issues" when you say running around and throwing rocks is OK for kids to do at a crag because both of these are huge safety issues, for the kids and the other climbers.
In all fairness, most crags aren't stacked one on top of another like Rumney. All things in context.
In reply to: Throwing anything that you find "in nature" is not ok.
Sorry, but most small turtles are just begging for it (beady-eyed, elitist, little bastards think they're so much better than me, hiding away in their shells).
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Basta916
Aug 5, 2009, 2:37 AM
Post #195 of 357
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bennydh wrote: dog of a violent breed .
WOW...you sure sound like you know all about dogs.
Maybe you need to be trained before you make stupid statements like that.
And since there are violent dog breeds, can you tell us what human breeds you would consider violent??????
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shockabuku
Aug 5, 2009, 2:40 AM
Post #196 of 357
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bigevilgrape wrote: dingus wrote: But screaming, running around like kids, throwing stones.... no, throwing stones is not ok. Throwing anything that you find "in nature" is not ok. If I see you pick something up off the ground and throw it (at a crag) I will rip you a new one. that is a huge safty issue. Lets say child is climbing up at Jimmy cliff picks up a baseball sized rock and chucks it tward the valley, over Wiamea and hits someone in the head. THIS IS NOT acceptable. Running isn't a safe game to be playing at Rumney either. There isn't a ton of room at the bottoms of the cliffs and the drop off after the trail is steep. The crags are stacked on top of each other. The OP said the kid took a digger running around, well he's damn lucky he didn't fall off the back side of the little area where the tent is set up. I don't understand how y ou can "agree with the safety issues" when you say running around and throwing rocks is OK for kids to do at a crag because both of these are huge safety issues, for the kids and the other climbers.
One of the dumbest things I've ever seen in print.
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bigevilgrape
Aug 5, 2009, 2:43 AM
Post #197 of 357
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Ok then I will swing over to your local crag and start winging crap I find on the ground at your head while you climb. I know "in nature" sounds gay but things you find on the ground outside are not for throwing, toys like balls and frisbees are for throwing.
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happiegrrrl
Aug 5, 2009, 2:50 AM
Post #198 of 357
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Ron Howard won America's heart by throwing something he found in nature(skipping a stone across the lake as Opie Taylor in Mayberry, RFD).
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bigevilgrape
Aug 5, 2009, 2:51 AM
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Thats at a beach, not at a crag. Throwing rocks at a crag is not ok. 3 toddlers don't have the capacity to tell when it is safe to throw rocks, so you shouldn't let them. You don't know the topography at rumney or you would agree with me. (and my argument has always been that at RUMNEY on a WEEKEND is not an apropriate place to bring kids who arn't used to/don't know how to act at a crag, not that you shouldn't bring kids climbing)
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shockabuku
Aug 5, 2009, 2:51 AM
Post #200 of 357
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Seems to me that rocks are the original throwing items, long before balls.
Sorry, I'm trying not to be so judgmental of other people. I have a job with a pretty repressive company and I don't think I'd like the whole country to go that way. I prefer that we retain the freedom to indulge our individual judgment to some extent.
Throw rocks at my head, well, no I don't think that's a good idea and I will probably do my best to beat you to death with a stick if you do. Little kid throwing rocks around and not hurting anyone, hey, big deal. If they need redirection, I give it to them regardless of their parents being present or not. You're free to make appropriate on the spot input, it's a lot more effective than running off at the finger tips on the internet.
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