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Scary Japanese "Haken" Bolts
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domu888


Jul 29, 2007, 8:21 PM
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Re: [bill_in_tokyo] Scary Japanese "Haken" Bolts [In reply to]
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Yeah, I would have to agree with [bill_in_tokyo]. It is just one thing climbers need to be aware of.

Having had another visit to my local climbing store (Lodge again), I found that pretty much anything of the soft metal variety has "haken" appended to the name, including some soft pitons.

I think what alarms me most is that they are still sold new, unlike their western predecessors, and from a very reputable distributor. I decided to start this thread after another climber asked me what was up with all the little rings and I went out and bought some. Until then I had viewed them with suspicion but did not have any actual knowledge of their actual dimensions.

It would be nice to hear from some Japanese climbers and there are a few I know who read these pages.


crackers


Jul 29, 2007, 8:33 PM
Post #27 of 39 (2294 views)
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Re: [bill_in_tokyo] Scary Japanese "Haken" Bolts [In reply to]
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bill_in_tokyo wrote:
...So I'm not sure, but I think ...

What is this, a court case? That seems like a well grounded exposition.

Sounds like you know what you're talking about...Wink


bill_in_tokyo


Jul 29, 2007, 9:43 PM
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Re: [crackers] Scary Japanese "Haken" Bolts [In reply to]
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crackers wrote:
What is this, a court case?

Heh. You know us lawyers. After a while that kind of exculpatory language gets to be such a habit that it's hard to turn it off.

Back on topic, I agree with domu888: it's a bit of a shock that they still sell that kind of gear new in shops in Japan. I don't bolt myself, so haven't every shopped specifically to see what I can find up here in Tokyo. Next time I visit a climbing shop, I'll try to remember to take a look.


domu888


Jul 29, 2007, 10:03 PM
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Re: [bill_in_tokyo] Scary Japanese "Haken" Bolts [In reply to]
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I know how the language works too: I also work in the legal profession, though I'm not a lawyer. I know that its been a long day when I start saying "You can have one from the group comprising ..."Wink
I don't regularly bolt stuff myself, though I have been taught how to do it: too much damn work if you have to do so by hand. However, I'm sure if you head down to your local climbing store in Tokyo you will find them.

As I suggested before, the main reason for this post was to raise awareness, but, hopefully, those people, including Japanese climbers, who do read these pages will think twice about placing any new ones.


(This post was edited by domu888 on Jul 30, 2007, 9:23 PM)


gamba


Jul 30, 2007, 1:06 AM
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Re: [domu888] Scary Japanese "Haken" Bolts [In reply to]
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I am a Japanese.
We call "Ring Bolt" for the left one, and the right one is "RCC Bolt". As you noticed, it is not enough for shock by fall, so it is common sense among Japanese climbers that you do not rely on these ones. Almost all of these replaced to PETZL or something reliable in sports climbing route, but they are still remained in many Multi-pitch route.
Be carefull, everyones...


jbak


Jul 30, 2007, 11:52 AM
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Re: [gamba] Scary Japanese "Haken" Bolts [In reply to]
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There were ring-bolts on a popular climb on Hunchback (Tucson) until recently. No one liked the way they looked but people did the route, took falls, no problems, even though they were 15+ years old. Finally we decided to replace them as a community service. We thought they'd come out pretty easily since they don't go in the rock very far, the rock quality was not so great and the split-shaft expansion mechanism didn't seem that secure. Wrong-o ! They were solid. We finally had to CUT them to get rid of them, they would not pull. I think they were actually fine and would have lasted many more years. They just looked weird.


Partner epoch
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Jul 30, 2007, 1:09 PM
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Re: [jbak] Scary Japanese "Haken" Bolts [In reply to]
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I saw a fair amount of those "bolts" while I was climbing in Japan. There were several atop a few climbs in Ogawayama that I didn't clip for anchors. I have pulled a few out simply by pulling on them, and have seen them on a few obscure climbs in the Izu prefecture. I thought of them as novel, and clipped two screamers in series to them, just in case. We had one of the ring-types at our local area that I purposely whipped on... didn't hold worth shit.

Just remember kids, every country has thier own standards. The Japan Free Climbing Association is doing thier best to rid these and other home-made bolts from the crags across Japan. It isn't cheap to do, but they are doing it. Also, you can still find 1/4" button heads on a few sport climbs near Tokyo.


Brett1234


Jul 30, 2007, 8:14 PM
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Re: [gamba] Scary Japanese "Haken" Bolts [In reply to]
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I asked my Japanese climbing instructor friend about this protection. He says they are intended for use in aid climbing and the working load is 300kg in good rock.
Here's part of his response:
"The left side bolt is called Ring Bolt It was used at first Ichinokura Cup Wall climbing. Its idea came from a lid of a kettle. The right side is RCC Bolt RCC is a famous climbing club which name is Rock Climbing Club. It is modified of the ring bolt. These are used at walls which have no riss(German). It was aid climbing gear.
These are stronger than harkens. It might be less than 300K though depends on the quality of the rock. They are used as protection now."


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Jul 30, 2007, 9:15 PM
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Re: [Brett1234] Scary Japanese "Haken" Bolts [In reply to]
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Brett1234 wrote:
I asked my Japanese climbing instructor friend about this protection. He says they are intended for use in aid climbing and the working load is 300kg in good rock.
Here's part of his response:
"The left side bolt is called Ring Bolt It was used at first Ichinokura Cup Wall climbing. Its idea came from a lid of a kettle. The right side is RCC Bolt RCC is a famous climbing club which name is Rock Climbing Club. It is modified of the ring bolt. These are used at walls which have no riss(German). It was aid climbing gear.
These are stronger than harkens. It might be less than 300K though depends on the quality of the rock. They are used as protection now."

I will agree with the majority here in that they are sketchy. Monkey


outdoorclubjapan


Dec 17, 2007, 11:20 AM
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Re: [domu888] Scary Japanese "Haken" Bolts [In reply to]
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True they are used throughout Japan! I've been here 13 years and always look at them nervously. There are usually several close by so the weight is spread, and I haven't heard of any failures. The end no doubt uses an expanding flange for outward compression to maintain grip.
I would say that on popular rock climbing routes there has been a lot replaced. I see them more on stream climbing and mountaineering routes.
Bill will know they are still used near Tokyo at Hiwada rock in Chichibu.

Andy
Outdoor Club Japan


(This post was edited by outdoorclubjapan on Dec 17, 2007, 11:27 AM)


bigemf5


Aug 4, 2009, 8:49 PM
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Re: [summerprophet] Scary Japanese "Haken" Bolts [In reply to]
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I live in Aomori prefecture in northern Japan. I can verify that these all over our local crag. I just rappelled off the ringed-ones last Saturday. We've used the other ones to back up "regular" climbing bolts on a sport climb. Needless to say, I find this discussion very interesting. I'd always assumed they were OK for top ropes or rappels. I'd never given much thought to how far they went into the rock or how they held. I would never use them as the sole protection against a lead fall.


technogeekery


Aug 5, 2009, 3:27 AM
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Re: [bigemf5] Scary Japanese "Haken" Bolts [In reply to]
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Funny, I just trophied a ring version a couple of weeks ago at Ogawayama, it had completely rusted through and I found the hanger and about a cm of bolt at the base of the wall. Did it fall or was it "pushed"? Hmmmm.

I wouldn't clip these even as psychological pro (false security) and I certainly wouldn't abseil off them, not even a multiple cluster. Horrible things, can't believe they are still selling them. Haven't seen any in the rock that look less than 10-15 years old though.


johnhenry


Aug 6, 2009, 1:44 AM
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Re: [technogeekery] Scary Japanese "Haken" Bolts [In reply to]
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I too will confirm the fact that there are still tons of both ring bolts and RCC bolt in the Kansai and Chugoku-regions.

I have pulled several out with my bare hands and have found several more old ones at the base of crags. Total sketch. Oh, by the way, I have seen a fair number of new ones too! The worst thing is that people seem to recognize they are sketchy and so belays just seem to keep sprouting more and more of them. I have seen ten or more at a stance before.

I hand-drilled one in concrete in like 5 minutes flat with a 99 yen drill bit!

I always carry extra screamers on routes here, because of these and other mank. Pirate

Cheers from Osaka,
john


bill413


Aug 6, 2009, 10:53 AM
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Re: [johnhenry] Scary Japanese "Haken" Bolts [In reply to]
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johnhenry wrote:
I hand-drilled one in concrete in like 5 minutes flat with a 99 yen drill bit!

Well, there you go - a total explanation for their popularity. Never mind if they hold or not - they go in easy. Unsure

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