Forums: Climbing Information: General:
Rant: Slaggin' on the less experienced
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for General

Premier Sponsor:

 
First page Previous page 1 2 3 Next page Last page  View All


Partner coldclimb


Dec 2, 2002, 11:16 AM
Post #26 of 55 (4340 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 14, 2002
Posts: 6909

Rant: Slaggin' on the less experienced [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I've never done anything stupid. Ever.

You're right. Don't bash them, help them. If they refuse the help, that's their problem then.


mwbtle


Dec 2, 2002, 11:35 AM
Post #27 of 55 (4340 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 22, 2002
Posts: 5891

Rant: Slaggin' on the less experienced [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

As a relative newbie, I have to applaud. I don't think I've done too much that's made jerks want to post nasty things about me, but I'm probably wrong, being the aforementioned newbie. Its just cool to hear from you who aren't anti-newbie.

In the gym I've met 2 kinds of climbers, the kind who get mad at me for taking up their wall time, and the kind who are willing to help me get out of the auto-belay when I'm having trouble pulling down on it and unclipping it and reclipping it to the wall, and who offer help when I'm trying to boulder. Glad to hear that the second kind aren't as rare a breed as I feared.


climbsomething


Dec 2, 2002, 11:59 AM
Post #28 of 55 (4340 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 29, 2002
Posts: 8588

Rant: Slaggin' on the less experienced [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Addendum :

There is no need to be all touchy-feely when you see people doing things wrong or sketchy -- I've said I strongly advocate teaching beginners (or even misinformed non-beginners) the right/safe way. I mean, don't be afraid to be firm, even if it does offend, when correcting or debating; don't be afraid to correct or debate at all.

and,

There is *some* use for "things to NOT do" threads/posts (after all, what keeps Accidents in North American Mountaineering in publication?)

BUT

those threads very quickly devolve into "stoopid, darwin gonna getcha" newbie bashing, and that's not cool.

There is a difference between learned, authoritative concern for others' safety, even if it is delievered in a gruff style, and flat-out being an elitist prick with nothing to contribute.

Das what I'm sayin'


galt


Dec 2, 2002, 1:10 PM
Post #29 of 55 (4340 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 3, 2002
Posts: 267

Rant: Slaggin' on the less experienced [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I'm still confused... We're better then the elitest because they bash newbies but we bash them? So we're elite over the elite?...


lox


Dec 2, 2002, 1:35 PM
Post #30 of 55 (4340 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 1, 2002
Posts: 2307

Rant: Slaggin' on the less experienced [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Here, let me set you straight on this.

First off, when people start to climb and figure out it is something they want to do, they often feel a little resentment towards thsoe of us who have been climbing for a long time. So, when we use their project as a warm-up or send their latest testpiece in flipflops or simply climb really well around them, we are branded as "elitist assholes."

Sidebar: It's kinda funny... there is one spot in CenTex where the warmup is horizontal roof v5. WARMUP. A lot of young kids who aren strong, but not v5 warmup strong have asked more experienced climbers how to get to this mythical roof. Noone will tell them, cuz it's on private land, and the warmup is freakin v5... so those in the know don't want to unleash a load of gumbies on this private land if there is going to be no climbing come from it... it has resulted in more than one round of elitist bastard namecalling here, but each time the namecalling is put to a halt with the question "Do YOU warmup on v5 ?"

It sounds harsh, but if you don't there is no point in going to the spot, except to look at it.

So where was I, oh yes... branded "elitist assholes."

Then, 4 year later, these same climbers who were branding people "elitist assholes" have found their own krew to climb with. They are pushing themselves and progressing through the movements. They can't help but look at some gumby on the wall in his BD Bod and shiny draws and think "What a NOOB." They forget that they were that noob once, long ago.

And so the elitist circle of life continues.

You can think that I'll flash your project to slag you off, or you can think that I just climb that hard in tennies and hope that someday you do too. Imagine, experience depends on your outlook ?!?! Who would have guessed...


rockpossum


Dec 2, 2002, 1:53 PM
Post #31 of 55 (4341 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 10, 2002
Posts: 230

Rant: Slaggin' on the less experienced [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Newbies resent seasoned climbers?

That's some bunker mentality talking.

I understand wanting to keep people out of the sport for your convenience, I really do. I left a career and moved to a small town because most of the places I enjoyed out doors had become over run with "day tourists".

I doubt the newbies resent you. I doubt they could care less about you and are more nervous about embarrassing themselves than anything else. Thus the theme of this thread, nervous people making mistakes.


lox


Dec 2, 2002, 2:16 PM
Post #32 of 55 (4341 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 1, 2002
Posts: 2307

Rant: Slaggin' on the less experienced [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Oh come on...

It's not a deep seated resentment like racism or anything, but if you are just starting out in this sport and you see someone climbing who has been training for a long time, you CAN BE a bit envious of their ability level.

This is why, when I go to the gym and sit in front of a wall and do every problem taped on the wall, I can hear people saying "Showoff..." under their breath.

Am I really a showoff ? Am I really an elitist prick ?

Hell no. I worked hard for quite a few years to get to the point where harder grades are easier for me... I am just there to have fun. If someone thinks that I am just showing off by warming up on v4, then they obviously don't know me at all, they don't know that what they think of me affects me not one bit. They don't know that I AM JUST WARMING UP.

They just know how strong I am and resent the fact that I can walk their nemesis in my kicks.

As far as being nervous and doing stupid stuff, I doubt that hanging 20 pounds of metal off your harness when you climb is due to nervousness... especially on toprope in the gym.

If you don't understand, I am willing to suggest that you don't climb much over v5, if that...

hehe.


rockpossum


Dec 2, 2002, 2:31 PM
Post #33 of 55 (4341 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 10, 2002
Posts: 230

Rant: Slaggin' on the less experienced [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Oh the shame, I've been revealed as an inferior climber.

The thing is I DO understand, the difference between us (besides ability) seems to be that I don't derive my self esteem from climbing so I don't need to slam people to point it out.


lox


Dec 2, 2002, 2:35 PM
Post #34 of 55 (4341 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 1, 2002
Posts: 2307

Rant: Slaggin' on the less experienced [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Apparently, your self esteem is derived from trying to make fun of others over the internet.

And yet you end up making assumptions and looking foolish.

Don't resent me because I know more than you do... it's unbecoming and will eventually hinder you in your quest for knowledge.

Go watch Spiritual Kung Fu with Jackie Chan and we can talk more, grasshopper.


jamison


Dec 2, 2002, 2:38 PM
Post #35 of 55 (4341 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 23, 2002
Posts: 106

Rant: Slaggin' on the less experienced [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Ha! thats some funny shit.

People don't judge someone as an elitest asshole unless they act like one. I know some and see plenty of superb climbers. Some seem like assholes, most don't. In fact, I can't think of any that I have met in person that seem like assholes. I'm pretty confident that if some one wispered "show off" under their breath around you. They probably were right.

There is a difference between showing off, warming up, and having fun. I think you probably are having fun, showing off, while warming up.

Jamison


[ This Message was edited by: jamison on 2002-12-02 14:39 ]


wv5ten


Dec 2, 2002, 2:47 PM
Post #36 of 55 (4341 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 1, 2002
Posts: 671

Rant: Slaggin' on the less experienced [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Headcrak:

as usual.....good points.
I know i get a twinge of jealousy when my friend matt flashes my project in Tevas. but guess what. He's better than me. Does that mean I suck? probably, but it means that i just have to work harder to get to that level. Theres a difference between newbie bashing, and stupidity bashing. Ive tr'd maybe twice. I still know better than to bring 20 pounds of pro to a wall tr route. Right off hand do I know how much pro to bring to sport. No. But I would find out before I got there. Do I make fun of those not as good as me. No I offer what advice I can give them. Just like Matt and my other friends that are better give me. no bashing involved.


climbsomething


Dec 2, 2002, 2:51 PM
Post #37 of 55 (4341 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 29, 2002
Posts: 8588

Rant: Slaggin' on the less experienced [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Headcrak does have a point.

Sure, as a total gumbaloid I was both in awe of the more experienced climbers as well as frustrated that I couldn't be like them. I can see how being jealous of somebody else's ability or knowledge could make you think better climbers were elitist assholes, make you mutter "show-off."

Although, speaking from personal experience, when I saw better climbers as "elitist assholes" it was usually because they flat-out said, "we don't want to climb with you, we want to do something harder than 5.6. You're slow. You can't lead." and so on. I mean, I wasn't stretching the imagination much. All they did was slag and not offer to guide me. Yep, in fact, assholes. It was cos of their personality, not climbing ability.

I have only very recently found partners who don't treat me like I am this big because I am not some climbing mag .13 hottie. (I'm the only one who isn't, ya know I'm behind the curve!!)

I guess it all depends on your self-esteem to begin with, how easily threatened you are, and how easily you can shrug it off, and how you adapt to a (the) sport's mentality.

Yeah, there's always somebody better than you, deal instead of bitching, you can learn from them. There's always somebody worse than you, deal instead of bitching (or gloating), maybe you can help them.

Although... I still think the subject of my ranting refers to gloating jerkies, who aren't just unwittingly activating some sensitive self-esteem/imagination. I think there really is a jerky problem out there...


lox


Dec 2, 2002, 2:55 PM
Post #38 of 55 (4341 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 1, 2002
Posts: 2307

Rant: Slaggin' on the less experienced [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

See, this is what I am talking about.

You don't know crap.

I used to be a IPS v2/v2+ climber, and I would see the v4+ climbers warming up and think, "Showoff." I can remember that. I used to think that they HAD to be showing off a little when they were warming up.

Now, with a few years experience under my belt and some impressive ticks on my list, I can see that yes, humble people also just warmup on v4 or 5.12.

How do you "know" I am being an asshole ? I am not stealing chalk, making fun of people for falling off, or moving pads. I am simply climbing. I sit there looking at the wall until someone fallsoff, and then I get up and walk over and do 3 or 4 moderate problems. People will have wildly different reactions to this, with some of them thinking that I am somehow showing off cuz I can climb x hard and they can only climb y hard.

Cuz you know, I always turn around and point at the noobs and scream "IN YOUR f---ING FACES, NEWBIES!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhaaaa... so, are any of you here for my 101 class ?"

Sheesh.

It's what I was trying to relay with the story about the "secret" area with the hard problems. It's seriously not that a bunch of elite assholes want to keep YOU from climbing there. It's that the climbing there is hard, and if you can't really even pull the warmup, you shouldn't go there. With the access issues, you shouldn't even go there to climb, much less check it out. But is the "strong" climber an "elite asshole" for pointing out that you have to be able to climb v5 to warmup there ? No, to him it is a simple fact, either you pull that hard or you don't.

Jeeze.


lox


Dec 2, 2002, 3:04 PM
Post #39 of 55 (4341 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 1, 2002
Posts: 2307

Rant: Slaggin' on the less experienced [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Good point to those who posted between posts.

I agree that some people are assholes, no matter how hard they climb and if they tell you they won't climb with you cuz you suck then that's shitty.

I climb with anyone and everyone and often have as good a day at teh crag just showing new peeps the beautiful limestone and climbing problems I have done 1000 times...j

A good point here is to not make assumptions about ANYONE, some of the strongest are the most humble and some of the weakest are the most fun. And everyone has room to learn more...



climbsomething


Dec 2, 2002, 3:04 PM
Post #40 of 55 (4341 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 29, 2002
Posts: 8588

Rant: Slaggin' on the less experienced [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

ding ding ding! Thanks headcrak. When you can think like this, it's a great mental milestone in your climbing:

Quote:But is the "strong" climber an "elite asshole" for pointing out that you have to be able to climb v5 to warmup there ? No, to him it is a simple fact, either you pull that hard or you don't.

True, true...

I ain't going to Rifle until I can consistently redpoint 11s and make some sense of 12s. Otherwise, I'd be pretty bored. Not mad about it though, I just know it's true.


climbsomething


Dec 2, 2002, 3:14 PM
Post #41 of 55 (4341 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 29, 2002
Posts: 8588

Rant: Slaggin' on the less experienced [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Lordy, how do I keep from sounding too soapboxy?

Heh, maybe it's simply my warmup and it just looks like I'm showing off?

Gosh, I'm a goob...



lox


Dec 2, 2002, 3:18 PM
Post #42 of 55 (4341 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 1, 2002
Posts: 2307

Rant: Slaggin' on the less experienced [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Too soapboxy ?

BATHE LESS !!!!1111

It's sexy in a French kinda way...


jds100


Dec 2, 2002, 6:22 PM
Post #43 of 55 (4341 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 4, 2001
Posts: 1008

Rant: Slaggin' on the less experienced [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Hey, galt! Calling a duck a duck, doesn't make it less of duck.

Pointing out rudeness and arrogance doesn't paint the person observing the rude arrogant behavior with the same brush.

That kind of circular logic is so sweet and politically correct, and it's a great way to avoid having opinions and values.


AltitudeJunkie


Sep 26, 2007, 1:31 AM
Post #44 of 55 (1577 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 25, 2007
Posts: 94

Re: [vertical_reality] Rant: Slaggin' on the less experienced [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

[quote "vertical_reality"]The only thing that sucks about this sport are the egos.
[/quote]

AMEN!!! I'm so sick of egotistical climbers who think their s**t don't stink! Its elitism at its ugliest. some of the people i know are egotistical elitist pricks. there's a little group of 'em too. its like a clique. they don't help the newbies, or really even acknowledge them. and they talk down to people like they're dumb. i always feel stupid addressing one of them. i usually feel like crap about my abilities when i climb. I've only been doing this for 3 months but I'm not a bad climber. One of these guys actually taught me how to belay. INCORRECTLY! Really. Is someone who can't teach a proper belay method really in any position to be an elitist and think SO high and mighty of their skills?

Attitude can be the difference between life and death in climbing. A climber with a bad attitude (like a big ego, and lots of arrogance) is eventually likely to be a dead climber. People who take on the high and mighty pedestal stance need to realize that good climbing is as much mental and psychological and about attitude as it is strength and technique.

I've read about a lot of people on here who've been asked by non-climbers if they are going for everest who aren't going for everest. I've never been asked that, and I am going for everest. this goal is whats keeping me saying (of inflated ego climbers) screw 'em. And when climbers with bad attitudes are busy making dumb fatal mistakes, I'll be freezing to death on a mountain, starving my body of oxygen, and doing what nobody thought i could, thinking, "Fuck this is amazing."

as climbers we talk a lot about how non climbers see this sport. think about how you're representing the sport. do you have a good attitude? does the way you present the sport to other people make it look appealing? does it make it look like a positive and healthy activity? think about how your behavior and the way you represent the sport impacts the reputation of it to people who know nothing about it. the fighting in hockey has given it a bad name. steroid use in baseball has somewhat tarnished the reputation of baseball. don't you think douchebag climbers could make climbing look like a crappy worthless sport for crappy worthless people?

just for the record, im not saying anything against anyone reading this, but i do think its important to protect the reputation of an awesome sport. and if anyone has a bad attitude, i suggest they check it and straighten up, because they're ruining it for other people. climbing isn't just a sport or a hobby, its a lifestyle and a culture.


climbsomething


Sep 26, 2007, 1:37 AM
Post #45 of 55 (1571 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 29, 2002
Posts: 8588

Re: [AltitudeJunkie] Rant: Slaggin' on the less experienced [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Jesus Christ ringing a bell for orphans at Christmastime. I knew that chick. Proof that indignant bumblies DO have chips on their shoulders!

That was awesome. Thanks for that, troll/n00bette from Iowa!

Whatever. It's been 5 years and for the record, my shit totally smells like jasmine now.

I said "newbie."


(This post was edited by climbsomething on Sep 26, 2007, 1:39 AM)


Kilgore_Trout


Sep 26, 2007, 6:13 AM
Post #46 of 55 (1529 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 26, 2007
Posts: 4

Re: [climbsomething] Rant: Slaggin' on the less experienced [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

This site should be called trollsversusn00bz.com. Which am I? Who cares? I hate everybody.


AltitudeJunkie


Sep 26, 2007, 10:09 AM
Post #47 of 55 (1467 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 25, 2007
Posts: 94

Re: [Kilgore_Trout] Rant: Slaggin' on the less experienced [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

how we behave is our choice. if you are a very skilled climber and you treat people badly because you think you're better than them, thats you're choice. it may reflects poorly on you as a person and as a climber. it is possible to be a decent person and a skilled climber. there's no good reason for being a jerk. being a good climber doesn't make up for what is lacked in character. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

all i'm saying is everyone deserves to be treated with respect regardless of their skill level, and i have a problem with people who'd much rather hold on to their pride than do something as simple as respecting and helping out other people. its sad that there are people who don't know this, and even more sad that their are people that just don't care.

what is so difficult to understand about this, and what is so hard about not being a jerk?


yanqui


Oct 9, 2007, 1:05 PM
Post #48 of 55 (1385 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 24, 2004
Posts: 1559

Re: [Kilgore_Trout] Rant: Slaggin' on the less experienced [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Kilgore_Trout wrote:
This site should be called trollsversusn00bz.com. Which am I? Who cares? I hate everybody.

Oh, a lion hunter in the jungle dark,
and a sleeping drunkard up in Central Park,
and a Chinese dentist and a British queen,
all fit together in the same machine.
Nice, nice, very nice,
nice, nice, very nice,
nice, nice, very nice
such very different people in the same device.


caughtinside


Oct 9, 2007, 1:22 PM
Post #49 of 55 (1354 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 8, 2003
Posts: 30603

Re: [AltitudeJunkie] Rant: Slaggin' on the less experienced [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

AltitudeJunkie wrote:
[quote "vertical_reality"]The only thing that sucks about this sport are the egos.
[/quote]

AMEN!!! I'm so sick of egotistical climbers who think their s**t don't stink! Its elitism at its ugliest. some of the people i know are egotistical elitist pricks. there's a little group of 'em too. its like a clique. they don't help the newbies, or really even acknowledge them. and they talk down to people like they're dumb. i always feel stupid addressing one of them. i usually feel like crap about my abilities when i climb. I've only been doing this for 3 months but I'm not a bad climber. One of these guys actually taught me how to belay. INCORRECTLY! Really. Is someone who can't teach a proper belay method really in any position to be an elitist and think SO high and mighty of their skills?

Attitude can be the difference between life and death in climbing. A climber with a bad attitude (like a big ego, and lots of arrogance) is eventually likely to be a dead climber. People who take on the high and mighty pedestal stance need to realize that good climbing is as much mental and psychological and about attitude as it is strength and technique.

I've read about a lot of people on here who've been asked by non-climbers if they are going for everest who aren't going for everest. I've never been asked that, and I am going for everest. this goal is whats keeping me saying (of inflated ego climbers) screw 'em. And when climbers with bad attitudes are busy making dumb fatal mistakes, I'll be freezing to death on a mountain, starving my body of oxygen, and doing what nobody thought i could, thinking, "Fuck this is amazing."

as climbers we talk a lot about how non climbers see this sport. think about how you're representing the sport. do you have a good attitude? does the way you present the sport to other people make it look appealing? does it make it look like a positive and healthy activity? think about how your behavior and the way you represent the sport impacts the reputation of it to people who know nothing about it. the fighting in hockey has given it a bad name. steroid use in baseball has somewhat tarnished the reputation of baseball. don't you think douchebag climbers could make climbing look like a crappy worthless sport for crappy worthless people?

just for the record, im not saying anything against anyone reading this, but i do think its important to protect the reputation of an awesome sport. and if anyone has a bad attitude, i suggest they check it and straighten up, because they're ruining it for other people. climbing isn't just a sport or a hobby, its a lifestyle and a culture.

I really enjoyed reading that and wanted to preserve it!


Partner rocdaug


Oct 9, 2007, 1:43 PM
Post #50 of 55 (1318 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 18, 2003
Posts: 220

Re: [rockpossum] Rant: Slaggin' on the less experienced [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

[quote "rockpossum"]The thing is I DO understand, the difference between us (besides ability) seems to be that I don't derive my self esteem from climbing so I don't need to slam people to point it out. [/quote]

Some people can't feel good about themselves unless they make someone else feel bad. We've seen this time and again -especially with the anonymity of the internet.

rd

First page Previous page 1 2 3 Next page Last page  View All

Forums : Climbing Information : General

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook