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curt
Aug 10, 2009, 5:00 PM
Post #51 of 194
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sky7high wrote: jt512 wrote: sky7high wrote: jt512 wrote: sky7high wrote: I dislike "up rope", I'd rather say "take" for picking up the slack and "tension" for resting on the rope; it makes more sense to me. I'm aware most of my partners don't use the terms that way, so I stick to "up rope" most of the time. Good idea to change the meanings of what are essentially universally recognized climbing commands. We need to abolish standardization, since the meaning of all words is relative anyway. What possible negative consequences could there be if "take" means "take up some of the slack" to you, but "put me on tension" to your belayer? Go for it, I say. Jay Yeah, I also dislike flamers in the inturdnetz who don't bother to read the second half of my post before quoting the entire thing and implying I'm an idiot. I'm aware that there will be some people who do this, so I stick to ignoring them most of the time I read your whole post. Jay So then you just decidedly ignored the second half because you wanted to augment your ego by making someone else look ridiculous...
No, you've managed to make yourself look ridiculous. And, when you whine on like a little girl, after being informed that you're an idiot, you appear even more so.
Curt
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dingus
Aug 10, 2009, 5:08 PM
Post #52 of 194
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sky7high wrote: dingus wrote: sky7high wrote: jt512 wrote: sky7high wrote: jt512 wrote: sky7high wrote: I dislike "up rope", I'd rather say "take" for picking up the slack and "tension" for resting on the rope; it makes more sense to me. I'm aware most of my partners don't use the terms that way, so I stick to "up rope" most of the time. Good idea to change the meanings of what are essentially universally recognized climbing commands. We need to abolish standardization, since the meaning of all words is relative anyway. What possible negative consequences could there be if "take" means "take up some of the slack" to you, but "put me on tension" to your belayer? Go for it, I say. Jay Yeah, I also dislike flamers in the inturdnetz who don't bother to read the second half of my post before quoting the entire thing and implying I'm an idiot. I'm aware that there will be some people who do this, so I stick to ignoring them most of the time I read your whole post. Jay So then you just decidedly ignored the second half because you wanted to augment your ego by making someone else look ridiculous. I'm glad I could be of service. The disclaimer in the 2nd half of your post did not offset the bad advice you presented in the first part of your post. Enter JT512 - he will dispell bad beginner advice with the ruthless efficiency of an executioner. Quoting your disclaimer would have contributed nothing toward negating your bad advice, though it may have made you feel better about yourself. DMT The first part says what I think i.e. my opinion; note the term "dislike". It was NOT meant as advice. The second part states what I do. IF anyone is taking anything out of my post as advice, the intelligent thing to do would be taking what I DO in the real world as advice. But evidently that is not going to stop the flamers out there from picking on someone who thinks before following the crowd.
The intelligent thing to do is to not take advice from beginners, for the most part.
DMT
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mturner
Aug 10, 2009, 5:10 PM
Post #53 of 194
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dingus wrote: j_ung wrote: The technically correct answer is that take means, "I want to fully rest on the rope." Tension and up rope are interchangeable. They both mean, "Make it tighter than it currently is." No. Up rope means get the frickin slack out of this system. It doesn't mean support the climber in anyway. Tension on the other hand, does. DMT
Agreed. However, I've always been taught/have taught that "take" is what you say when you want to be fully supported by the rope mid-climb, where tension is something you ask for at the end of a climb right before asking to be lowered or right after setting up an anchor. In both cases the belayer is doing the same thing though (unlike when just taking up rope)
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Bats
Aug 10, 2009, 5:57 PM
Post #54 of 194
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What do you say when you want to get lowered?
I say "dirt," but when I was TR climbing with some guys from Colorado, it floored them. Is that a regional term?
I ask you Ding, because you seemed to be in the know.
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trapdoor
Aug 10, 2009, 6:42 PM
Post #55 of 194
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Climber: On belay?
Belayer: Belay is on.
Climber: Climbing.
Belayer: Climb on.
Climber wants to hang on draw or gear while leading or on top rope: Take.
Climber calls Up Rope when following or top roping when too much slack is in the system.
Once at the top:
Climber has clipped the rope into the anchor and calls for tension.
Belayer takes in all of the slack tightly: Tension on.
Climber: Lower me.
Belayer: Lowering.
or
Climber clipps the rope into the anchor and calls Take.
Belayer takes in all the slack tightly.
Climber: Lower me.
Belayer: Lowering.
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Gmburns2000
Aug 10, 2009, 6:55 PM
Post #56 of 194
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Bats wrote: What do you say when you want to get lowered? I say "dirt," but when I was TR climbing with some guys from Colorado, it floored them. Is that a regional term? I ask you Ding, because you seemed to be in the know.
I've heard "dirt," too, but it isn't something that I hear often. What I hear most of the time when folks want to get lowered is simply, "OK, you can lower me."
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dingus
Aug 10, 2009, 7:04 PM
Post #57 of 194
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Bats wrote: What do you say when you want to get lowered? I say "dirt," but when I was TR climbing with some guys from Colorado, it floored them. Is that a regional term? I ask you Ding, because you seemed to be in the know.
I use the universal 'thumbs down' most often. I would never say 'dirt me' because I'm old and have hair growing from places where none should be.
"Lower me" holds a certain panache. Then again so does Dirt.
I dunno - but I take pride in being able to climb safely using no verbal commands at all.
DMT
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kachoong
Aug 10, 2009, 7:13 PM
Post #58 of 194
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Saying "take" while leading means you are non-committal and dogging it.
Seriously though, this is the most important take-home message...
dingus wrote: I dunno - but I take pride in being able to climb safely using no verbal commands at all.
Your belayer should be attentive, ready and be able to anticipate your actions whether you can see each other or not. Those three commands rarely need to be used, if at all, during a typical days climbing. Besides, if you can see your climber you should know what they mean whether they say "Fuck", "Yogi" or "Pancakes".
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trapdoor
Aug 10, 2009, 7:30 PM
Post #59 of 194
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Pancakes? I don't get it.
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mturner
Aug 10, 2009, 7:30 PM
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trapdoor wrote: Climber: On belay? Belayer: Belay is on. Climber: Climbing. Belayer: Climb on. Climber wants to hang on draw or gear while leading or on top rope: Take. Climber calls Up Rope when following or top roping when too much slack is in the system. Once at the top: Climber has clipped the rope into the anchor and calls for tension. Belayer takes in all of the slack tightly: Tension on. Climber: Lower me. Belayer: Lowering. or Climber clipps the rope into the anchor and calls Take. Belayer takes in all the slack tightly. Climber: Lower me. Belayer: Lowering.
That's how I learned it.
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shimanilami
Aug 10, 2009, 7:41 PM
Post #61 of 194
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This very eccentric dude at my local gym makes up his own terms. No one knows what he's talking about. It leaves us totally flustered, which leaves him getting short roped, lowered when he doesn't want it, not lowered when he does, etc.
It's the gym, so it's no big deal. It's not like I'm going to drop him. But WTF? Why not use the same language as everyone else?
All I know is that he will never belay me. I don't want to say "slack" and then get pulled off the wall, which I've seen him do.
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dingus
Aug 10, 2009, 7:42 PM
Post #62 of 194
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kachoong wrote: Saying "take" while leading means you are non-committal and dogging it. Seriously though, this is the most important take-home message... dingus wrote: I dunno - but I take pride in being able to climb safely using no verbal commands at all. Your belayer should be attentive, ready and be able to anticipate your actions whether you can see each other or not. Those three commands rarely need to be used, if at all, during a typical days climbing. Besides, if you can see your climber you should know what they mean whether they say "Fuck", "Yogi" or "Pancakes".
I take pride in climbing with no verbal commands when my belayer can't see me either.
DMT
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caughtinside
Aug 10, 2009, 8:27 PM
Post #63 of 194
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I will admit to using some non-standard commands.
I have generally replaced "on belay?" with "Marmalade?" which if you say fast enough sounds more or less the same.
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milesenoell
Aug 11, 2009, 12:08 AM
Post #64 of 194
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I've heard "dirt me" back in Oregon, but only from teenagers.
I climbed in a gym in Germany that had bad echoes and reflected sounds so that it was often too loud and chaotic to depend on verbal commands. ("did you say take or was that the other guy?") and we found that using arm signals was safer, were easily recognized, and didn't even need to be discussed before hand... we just started.
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chossmonkey
Aug 11, 2009, 12:25 AM
Post #65 of 194
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j_ung wrote: The technically correct answer is that take means, "I want to fully rest on the rope." Tension and up rope are interchangeable. They both mean, "Make it tighter than it currently is." BUT, what the partners agree to is more important. As long as it means the same thing to both of you... whatever. These days, however, assuming you and your new partner will mean the exact same thing by take, tension and up rope is probably not too bright.
At the risk of being flogged with your #11 hex, I will disagree with you.
"Tension" is not the same thing as "Up rope". "Tension" is the same as "Take". Tension means tight, "take" is short for "Take up tension on the rope". Up rope does not mean make the rope tight, it means take up the fucking slack you fucking slacker.
The real question is WTF is up with these retards that say "Safe" for "Off Belay".
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phillygoat
Aug 11, 2009, 1:37 AM
Post #66 of 194
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yodadave wrote: ...it would seem to me that by saying take instead of falling I am risking a stiff catch rather than busted ankles
Which is why if you say "take" above your pro (sans hazards) I, your belayer, will ignore you.
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jt512
Aug 11, 2009, 1:42 AM
Post #67 of 194
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phillygoat wrote: yodadave wrote: ...it would seem to me that by saying take instead of falling I am risking a stiff catch rather than busted ankles Which is why if you say "take" above your pro (sans hazards) I, your belayer, will ignore you.
That's pretty much what I do, too. Unfortunately, many belayers will blindly obey the command.
Jay
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sky7high
Aug 11, 2009, 2:21 AM
Post #68 of 194
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dingus wrote: sky7high wrote: dingus wrote: sky7high wrote: jt512 wrote: sky7high wrote: jt512 wrote: sky7high wrote: I dislike "up rope", I'd rather say "take" for picking up the slack and "tension" for resting on the rope; it makes more sense to me. I'm aware most of my partners don't use the terms that way, so I stick to "up rope" most of the time. Good idea to change the meanings of what are essentially universally recognized climbing commands. We need to abolish standardization, since the meaning of all words is relative anyway. What possible negative consequences could there be if "take" means "take up some of the slack" to you, but "put me on tension" to your belayer? Go for it, I say. Jay Yeah, I also dislike flamers in the inturdnetz who don't bother to read the second half of my post before quoting the entire thing and implying I'm an idiot. I'm aware that there will be some people who do this, so I stick to ignoring them most of the time I read your whole post. Jay So then you just decidedly ignored the second half because you wanted to augment your ego by making someone else look ridiculous. I'm glad I could be of service. The disclaimer in the 2nd half of your post did not offset the bad advice you presented in the first part of your post. Enter JT512 - he will dispell bad beginner advice with the ruthless efficiency of an executioner. Quoting your disclaimer would have contributed nothing toward negating your bad advice, though it may have made you feel better about yourself. DMT The first part says what I think i.e. my opinion; note the term "dislike". It was NOT meant as advice. The second part states what I do. IF anyone is taking anything out of my post as advice, the intelligent thing to do would be taking what I DO in the real world as advice. But evidently that is not going to stop the flamers out there from picking on someone who thinks before following the crowd. The intelligent thing to do is to not take advice from beginners, for the most part. DMT
Yeah, because:
a) you know I'm a beginner
b) It takes many years of being a hardened veteran to learn and think about simple commands and the words used to convey them.
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aerili
Aug 11, 2009, 2:21 AM
Post #69 of 194
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mturner wrote: However, I've always been taught/have taught that "take" is what you say when you want to be fully supported by the rope mid-climb, where tension is something you ask for at the end of a climb right before asking to be lowered or right after setting up an anchor. In both cases the belayer is doing the same thing though (unlike when just taking up rope)
I wonder if I say "tension" (instead of "take")--after setting up my anchor and thus preparing to lower--if I will then not get violently yanked into the anchor by my overzealous boy belayers??
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phillygoat
Aug 11, 2009, 2:33 AM
Post #70 of 194
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aerili wrote: mturner wrote: However, I've always been taught/have taught that "take" is what you say when you want to be fully supported by the rope mid-climb, where tension is something you ask for at the end of a climb right before asking to be lowered or right after setting up an anchor. In both cases the belayer is doing the same thing though (unlike when just taking up rope) I wonder if I say "tension" (instead of "take")--after setting up my anchor and thus preparing to lower--if I will then not get violently yanked into the anchor by my overzealous boy belayers??
I actually prefer something akin to this rather than drop ten feet after being told, "got 'cha!". (though without the violence)
(This post was edited by phillygoat on Aug 11, 2009, 2:39 AM)
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curt
Aug 11, 2009, 2:42 AM
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sky7high wrote: dingus wrote: sky7high wrote: jt512 wrote: sky7high wrote: jt512 wrote: sky7high wrote: I dislike "up rope", I'd rather say "take" for picking up the slack and "tension" for resting on the rope; it makes more sense to me. I'm aware most of my partners don't use the terms that way, so I stick to "up rope" most of the time.Good idea to change the meanings of what are essentially universally recognized climbing commands. We need to abolish standardization, since the meaning of all words is relative anyway. What possible negative consequences could there be if "take" means "take up some of the slack" to you, but "put me on tension" to your belayer? Go for it, I say. Jay Yeah, I also dislike flamers in the inturdnetz who don't bother to read the second half of my post before quoting the entire thing and implying I'm an idiot. I'm aware that there will be some people who do this, so I stick to ignoring them most of the time I read your whole post. Jay So then you just decidedly ignored the second half because you wanted to augment your ego by making someone else look ridiculous. I'm glad I could be of service. The disclaimer in the 2nd half of your post did not offset the bad advice you presented in the first part of your post. Enter JT512 - he will dispell bad beginner advice with the ruthless efficiency of an executioner. Quoting your disclaimer would have contributed nothing toward negating your bad advice, though it may have made you feel better about yourself. DMT The first part says what I think i.e. my opinion; note the term "dislike". It was NOT meant as advice. The second part states what I do. IF anyone is taking anything out of my post as advice, the intelligent thing to do would be taking what I DO in the real world as advice.
The "second part" of the earlier post that you seem so proud of (in red above) says that you "stick to up rope most of the time." This still means that you doing something else (i.e. wrong) the remainder of the time.
sky7high wrote: But evidently that is not going to stop the flamers out there from picking on someone who thinks before following the crowd.
Thinking is clearly not one of your strengths.
Curt
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milesenoell
Aug 11, 2009, 3:16 AM
Post #72 of 194
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Sky7High... I just gotta throw this out there. This site is great for throwing around bad and or dangerous ideas (foot belay, anyone?) , and just throwing out bad ideas (cut open the rope and rap on core strands, maybe?) isn't that bad, but trying to defend them will only bring the shitstorm. No-one here is likely to follow any advice you give no matter how good it may be, so just stick to tossing out questionable advice and then let it sit.
edited for clarity
(This post was edited by milesenoell on Aug 11, 2009, 3:17 AM)
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I_do
Aug 11, 2009, 3:24 AM
Post #73 of 194
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jt512 wrote: phillygoat wrote: yodadave wrote: ...it would seem to me that by saying take instead of falling I am risking a stiff catch rather than busted ankles Which is why if you say "take" above your pro (sans hazards) I, your belayer, will ignore you. That's pretty much what I do, too. Unfortunately, many belayers will blindly obey the command. Jay
If I'm on more then vertical terrain I typically want my belayers to just lock off, they are usually quite a bit lighter then me so I'm more concerned with them having problems locking off, then with getting a soft belay. This will vary with the weight and skill level of my belayer, and I know it's kinda wrong and I need to condition myself to change this.
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sky7high
Aug 11, 2009, 4:38 AM
Post #74 of 194
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curt wrote: sky7high wrote: dingus wrote: sky7high wrote: jt512 wrote: sky7high wrote: jt512 wrote: sky7high wrote: I dislike "up rope", I'd rather say "take" for picking up the slack and "tension" for resting on the rope; it makes more sense to me. I'm aware most of my partners don't use the terms that way, so I stick to "up rope" most of the time.Good idea to change the meanings of what are essentially universally recognized climbing commands. We need to abolish standardization, since the meaning of all words is relative anyway. What possible negative consequences could there be if "take" means "take up some of the slack" to you, but "put me on tension" to your belayer? Go for it, I say. Jay Yeah, I also dislike flamers in the inturdnetz who don't bother to read the second half of my post before quoting the entire thing and implying I'm an idiot. I'm aware that there will be some people who do this, so I stick to ignoring them most of the time I read your whole post. Jay So then you just decidedly ignored the second half because you wanted to augment your ego by making someone else look ridiculous. I'm glad I could be of service. The disclaimer in the 2nd half of your post did not offset the bad advice you presented in the first part of your post. Enter JT512 - he will dispell bad beginner advice with the ruthless efficiency of an executioner. Quoting your disclaimer would have contributed nothing toward negating your bad advice, though it may have made you feel better about yourself. DMT The first part says what I think i.e. my opinion; note the term "dislike". It was NOT meant as advice. The second part states what I do. IF anyone is taking anything out of my post as advice, the intelligent thing to do would be taking what I DO in the real world as advice. The "second part" of the earlier post that you seem so proud of (in red above) says that you "stick to up rope most of the time." This still means that you doing something else (i.e. wrong) the remainder of the time.
It also says "most" of my partners. It doesn't take a genius to realize that not all of my partners use the same verbal commands. I use whatever's agreed upon, if there's no previous agreement or knowledge, I stick to the usual commands.
Given that I had to spell it our for you, reading is clearly not one of your strengths.
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curt
Aug 11, 2009, 5:02 AM
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sky7high wrote: curt wrote: sky7high wrote: dingus wrote: sky7high wrote: jt512 wrote: sky7high wrote: jt512 wrote: sky7high wrote: I dislike "up rope", I'd rather say "take" for picking up the slack and "tension" for resting on the rope; it makes more sense to me. I'm aware most of my partners don't use the terms that way, so I stick to "up rope" most of the time.Good idea to change the meanings of what are essentially universally recognized climbing commands. We need to abolish standardization, since the meaning of all words is relative anyway. What possible negative consequences could there be if "take" means "take up some of the slack" to you, but "put me on tension" to your belayer? Go for it, I say. Jay Yeah, I also dislike flamers in the inturdnetz who don't bother to read the second half of my post before quoting the entire thing and implying I'm an idiot. I'm aware that there will be some people who do this, so I stick to ignoring them most of the time I read your whole post. Jay So then you just decidedly ignored the second half because you wanted to augment your ego by making someone else look ridiculous. I'm glad I could be of service. The disclaimer in the 2nd half of your post did not offset the bad advice you presented in the first part of your post. Enter JT512 - he will dispell bad beginner advice with the ruthless efficiency of an executioner. Quoting your disclaimer would have contributed nothing toward negating your bad advice, though it may have made you feel better about yourself. DMT The first part says what I think i.e. my opinion; note the term "dislike". It was NOT meant as advice. The second part states what I do. IF anyone is taking anything out of my post as advice, the intelligent thing to do would be taking what I DO in the real world as advice. The "second part" of the earlier post that you seem so proud of (in red above) says that you "stick to up rope most of the time." This still means that you doing something else (i.e. wrong) the remainder of the time. It also says "most" of my partners. It doesn't take a genius to realize that not all of my partners use the same verbal commands. I use whatever's agreed upon, if there's no previous agreement or knowledge, I stick to the usual commands. Given that I had to spell it our for you, reading is clearly not one of your strengths.
Gumbys like you are a dime a dozen, kid. You admit that you're relatively inexperienced (which was clear even without the admission) yet when your unsafe and asinine practices are brought to your attention by jt512, myself and numerous other people who have forgotten more than you will ever know about climbing, you argue with us instead of shutting the fuck up and learning anything. I feel sorry for anyone who climbs with you.
Curt
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