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dorienc


Aug 17, 2009, 7:24 PM
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Re: [Jazza11] Climbing advise [In reply to]
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Join the gym.
Take some lessons (so you actually start with some technique).
Climb.
Watch how the climbers slightly better than you do it. Don't bother trying to copy the really good ones, they make it all look easy.
Climb some more.
Lose some weight if you are fat old tub of goo like me.
Get friends who climb and climb with them. Talk climbing with them.
Don't live in the gym, climb outside (See above for lessons and friends).
The absolute best preparation for climbing is climbing.


shockabuku


Aug 17, 2009, 11:26 PM
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Re: [blkela] Climbing advise [In reply to]
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No biggie. I guess you rarely see training plans from new climbers (except on this siteCrazy).


curt


Aug 18, 2009, 12:05 AM
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Re: [Jazza11] Climbing advise [In reply to]
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Jazza11 wrote:
I hav'nt actually started climbing but i really want to their is a climbing gym just near me so thats a plus but i wanted to know about becoming fiter and pre-pairing for climbing as i am hardly health at all right now i was wondering if someone could give me some tips on how to increase my health and fitness specificaly for climbing like should i buy a new bike or get a exercise bike to improve my cartiovascular fitness??? any advise is welcome and much appreciated.

Study the English language. It will benefit you at least as much as any other advice offered in this thread.

Curt


ckirkwood9


Aug 18, 2009, 10:18 AM
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Re: [shockabuku] Climbing advise [In reply to]
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In reply to:
And no one, so far, who has a credible amount of experience is recommending one.

At the risk of opening myself up for to huge amount of criticism and personal attack: I've been climbing for 6-7 years, have visited many crags inside and outside the US (i think this gives me SOME credibility as a somewhat-experienced climber), and i think forearm trainers are worthwhile.

The Black Diamond forearm trainer (http://www.rei.com/product/496308) definitely helped my endurance when i first started climbing or when coming back from a long hiatus. ALSO after an injury, a physical therapist suggested i use one ~ so someone in the medical community deemed it worthwhile.

Unless you've tried it and seen how it affects your climbing, I don't think you can make an accurate judgment call on it's effectiveness.

Also, who can argue with the idea that stronger forearms will help with rock climbing. Just take a look at the typical climber build. Popeye forearms. ... Climbing builds stronger forearms because the body is adapting to the need for stronger forearms. Granted... stronger forearms won't make you a better CLIMBER... it'll just allow you to climb longer/harder as you're LEARNING to be a better climber.

Yes tendons take longer to strengthen than muscles, and yes a beginner can hurt themselves if they try to push it too soon, however, the OP wasn't asking if using a training device will help him/her send a 5.12 on his first day out. They were asking for advice on what to do to prepare for climbing. Stronger forearms will prepare a person for the strength/endurance needed for climbing.

If anyone thinks that being stronger won't help, then they're being silly.

Someone suggested that the OP save $$ and just climb; the black diamond forearm trainer costs somewhere around $6, is simple, portable, and gives ya something to do while you're driving to the crag with your 1000 dollars worth of trad gear. :)

Besides, if you get it and don't like it or if you find it doesn't help you, just give it to your dog, or 1 year old-nephew to chew on. :)
After washing, of course.

Having said that most will agree that the BEST thing to get better/stronger at climbing is to climb.


shockabuku


Aug 18, 2009, 11:35 AM
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Re: [ckirkwood9] Climbing advise [In reply to]
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Okay, your personal experience may have some validity. However, thinking that it probably does some good doesn't equate to it actually doing some good. You don't know what you don't know, so don't represent your opinion as fact.


(This post was edited by shockabuku on Aug 18, 2009, 11:36 AM)


ckirkwood9


Aug 18, 2009, 12:31 PM
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Re: [shockabuku] Climbing advise [In reply to]
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shockabuku wrote:
However, thinking that it probably does some good doesn't equate to it actually doing some good. You don't know what you don't know, so don't represent your opinion as fact.

i don't think i presented anything other than my opinion and personal experience and deduced an outcome based on that.

However, here are some facts to consider:

1) Exercising a muscle makes it stronger.
2) The previously mentioned product, if used properly, will help to create stronger forearm muscles.
3) Stronger forearm muscles will give a climber more endurance for climbing.
4) The more one climbs, the more likely they are to become a stronger/better climber.

Therefor by simple logic, a forearm trainer, if used properly, will give a climber more endurance which will allow them to climb more, and ultimately COULD help them to become a stronger/better climber.

Do you suggest that forearm strength will NOT help a climber?


csproul


Aug 18, 2009, 12:41 PM
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Re: [ckirkwood9] Climbing advise [In reply to]
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It is likely not as simple as you make it out to be. What exactly do you mean when you say "forearm muscle"? There are several different muscles and each are worked differently when pulling on different shaped holds and in differing directions. Which is limiting to your climbing? Which muscle do these devices work, and are they really making it stronger or are they increasing endurance? Is a "stronger" muscle really more likely to give better endurance? I don't know the answer to these questions, but I am reasonably sure that you are greatly oversimplifying things.


shockabuku


Aug 18, 2009, 12:45 PM
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Re: [ckirkwood9] Climbing advise [In reply to]
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ckirkwood9 wrote:
shockabuku wrote:
However, thinking that it probably does some good doesn't equate to it actually doing some good. You don't know what you don't know, so don't represent your opinion as fact.

i don't think i presented anything other than my opinion and personal experience and deduced an outcome based on that.

However, here are some facts to consider:

1) Exercising a muscle makes it stronger.
2) The previously mentioned product, if used properly, will help to create stronger forearm muscles.
3) Stronger forearm muscles will give a climber more endurance for climbing.
4) The more one climbs, the more likely they are to become a stronger/better climber.

Therefor by simple logic, a forearm trainer, if used properly, will give a climber more endurance which will allow them to climb more, and ultimately COULD help them to become a stronger/better climber.

Do you suggest that forearm strength will NOT help a climber?

Like you, I assume it will, but I really don't know for sure.


welle


Aug 18, 2009, 1:20 PM
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Re: [acorneau] Climbing advise [In reply to]
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acorneau wrote:
Jazza11 wrote:
I hav'nt actually started climbing but i really want to their is a climbing gym just near me so thats a plus but i wanted to know about becoming fiter and pre-pairing for climbing as i am hardly health at all right now i was wondering if someone could give me some tips on how to increase my health and fitness specificaly for climbing like should i buy a new bike or get a exercise bike to improve my cartiovascular fitness??? any advise is welcome and much appreciated.


Quoted for complete lack of sentence structure, punctuation, and spelling!!!
CrazyShockedWink

troll?


ckirkwood9


Aug 19, 2009, 2:11 PM
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Re: [csproul] Climbing advise [In reply to]
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In reply to:
It is likely not as simple as you make it out to be. What exactly do you mean when you say "forearm muscle"?

I was originally referring to the forearm flexors. the BD forearm trainer is good for conditioning these specific forearm muscles used for grip strength.

There is also a good training device made by theraband called a Flex Bar that can be used for both flexor AND extensor muscles.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001ANL5H8/ref=asc_df_B001ANL5H8885009?smid=A3FTKNZ9RHYKG2&tag=shopzilla_mp_1023-20&linkCode=asn&creative=380341&creativeASIN=B001ANL5H8

it's a good idea to train both because an imbalance in your flexor/extensor development can give you elbow tendonitis.

ask any doctor or physical therapist about climbing-related elbow injuries and why they happen ~ and what they prescribe AFTER an injury occurs and why. (other than 'stop-climbing' that is)

(This post was edited by ckirkwood9 on Aug 19, 2009, 2:28 PM)


ckirkwood9


Aug 19, 2009, 2:27 PM
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Re: [shockabuku] Climbing advise [In reply to]
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In reply to:
In reply to:
Do you suggest that forearm strength will NOT help a climber?

Like you, I assume it will, but I really don't know for sure.

REALLY????

Are you willing to go out on a limb and say that lat strength will help a swimmer or that quad strength help a runner?

OR sticking to this climbing discussion... Will stronger abs help a climber?

If we following your logic... strength-training your abs will not help you as a climber.

Do you need a study to prove to you that stronger muscles will help an individual pursuing a sport where those exact muscles are employed in its pursuit?

(This post was edited by ckirkwood9 on Aug 19, 2009, 2:30 PM)


shockabuku


Aug 19, 2009, 8:19 PM
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ckirkwood9 wrote:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Do you suggest that forearm strength will NOT help a climber?

Like you, I assume it will, but I really don't know for sure.

REALLY????

Are you willing to go out on a limb and say that lat strength will help a swimmer or that quad strength help a runner?

OR sticking to this climbing discussion... Will stronger abs help a climber?

If we following your logic... strength-training your abs will not help you as a climber.

Do you need a study to prove to you that stronger muscles will help an individual pursuing a sport where those exact muscles are employed in its pursuit?

You apparently missed the point.


csproul


Aug 20, 2009, 7:05 AM
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ckirkwood9 wrote:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Do you suggest that forearm strength will NOT help a climber?

Like you, I assume it will, but I really don't know for sure.

REALLY????

Are you willing to go out on a limb and say that lat strength will help a swimmer or that quad strength help a runner?

OR sticking to this climbing discussion... Will stronger abs help a climber?

If we following your logic... strength-training your abs will not help you as a climber.

Do you need a study to prove to you that stronger muscles will help an individual pursuing a sport where those exact muscles are employed in its pursuit?
You really have missed the point. The bolded potion is mine. It is arguable whether those exercises do in fact train the exact muscles, or even if they do, that they do so in a manner that is beneficial. There is lots of anecdotal information that this or that weight training/pullups/forearm exerciser...will help your climbing and very little real evidence that it is true. As far as your example, I can tell you flat out that it is misleading. I was once a competitive cyclist at a very high level. I can tell you with complete certainty that all the leg lifting in the world isn't going to make you a faster cyclist (with the exception of some track cycling and maybe sprinters). Strength training in that context mostly needs to be done using the exact same motion as the exercise...i.e. pedaling! Weights maybe useful for correcting muscle imbalance and preventing injury, but it is going to do little to make you faster. I would be willing to bet the same is true for runners. The time spent making the muscle stronger by lifting is almost certainly better spent training the specific motion (running, swimming, riding...). And these are very simple repetitive motions when compared to climbing. Climbing involves a much more complex range of motions, and I doubt very much that exercising a muscle in such a repetitive fashion (a forearm trainer) would be all that beneficial. You will be hard pressed to find many people that climb at a high level who would advocate training with a forearm trainer or pullups etc...I think that this holds even more true for a beginner. Look at any of the threads on this site for "pullups and climbing" and you will see several knowledgeable trainers and climbers who have concluded that they provide little benefit, especially if they take time away from better training methods. I wouldn't think a forearm trainer is much different, especially for a beginner. I'm not an expert in physiology or training for that matter, so I'll leave further responses to those that are, but all I'm saying is that I think you are vastly oversimplifying things and possibly giving questionable advice to beginning climbers.


vertical_planar


Aug 20, 2009, 7:27 AM
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Jast go klimbing


Partner camhead


Aug 20, 2009, 8:02 AM
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lrossi wrote:
Jazza11 wrote:
I hav'nt actually started climbing but i really want to their is a climbing gym just near me so thats a plus but i wanted to know about becoming fiter and pre-pairing for climbing as i am hardly health at all right now i was wondering if someone could give me some tips on how to increase my health and fitness specificaly for climbing like should i buy a new bike or get a exercise bike to improve my cartiovascular fitness??? any advise is welcome and much appreciated.

Start with sentences. Eventually you can move up to paragraphs.

Good advice, but take it slow. People with your writing ability who attempt to immediately form paragraphs often really injure themselves; tearing tendons, or maybe even ripping a rotator cuff.


ckirkwood9


Aug 20, 2009, 10:25 AM
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In reply to:
You will be hard pressed to find many people that climb at a high level who would advocate training with a forearm trainer or pullups etc...I think that this holds even more true for a beginner.

It is YOU who is missing the point. The OP's question was "I'm a beginner, what can i do to get ready for climbing" and you keep talking about professionals and hard-core climbers.

The person is a BEGINNER, probably with little grip strength (as opposed to those i originally referred to such as manual laborers or cyclists who already have some grip strength from their activities)

Those with little grip strength will most certainly benefit from strength-training for grip strength by ...you guessed it...gripping. Using the device I mentioned will allow a new climber (or an injured climber working to get his/her strength/endurance back) to work his grip strength to failure via high reps.

Moving forward: from an interview with dainiel woods - professional climber

http://www.rockclimbing.com/Articles/General/Daniel_Woods_Professional_Climber_with_no_limits__858.html

Daniel: The most challenging thing about training is motivation.

All I want to do is climb but I recognize that some things cannot be done unless I get stronger or have more experience. I used to do the typical training such as pull ups, push ups, ab workouts, 1 arm hangs and pull ups etc. but it got too boring. Now I feel the best method is to climb as much as possible and travel to new areas with new stone. Your psyche is maintained and you gain more experience.
he says that the BEST METHOD is to climb as much as possible (which i agreed to)
he also says that he used to do other training methods "pull ups, push ups, ab workouts, 1 arm hangs" but it got boring.
He didn't say that it didn't help his climbing.


Eric Horst states in 'how to climb 5.12'

an old adage that "climbing is the best training for climbing" and many climbers use this line as an excuse for not engaging in any supplemental training activities. Let's examine this precept and determine, once and for all, if it is valid.

When I am asked the question "Is climbing the best training for climbing?", my canned answer is "it depends."
There are two sides of the training-for-climbing coin to consider:
1. in terms of improving climbing technique and mental skills, "climbing as training" is the only way to go,
2. developing high levels of sport-specific strength (i.e. grip strength, lock-off ability, upper-body power and such) demands supplement targeted training outside of just sending at the crags.

Here's why.

The goals and course of effective action of "climbing" versus "training" are very different. For instance, the goal in climbing is to avoid muscular failure at all costs and, hopefully, reach the top of a boulder problem or climb. Conversely, effective training for climbing demands a stimulus of sufficient intensity to produce muscular failure in a few minutes (when training anaerobic endurance) and a few seconds (when training maximum strength and power).
Summarizing--in climbing, you strive to avoid failure; in training, you need to pursue failure.

Another example that underscores the difference between climbing and training for climbing is the way in which you grip the rock. In climbing, the rock dictates a random use of many different grip positions and, at times, you may even deliberately vary the way you grip the rock. As a result, it's unlikely that any single grip position will ever get worked maximally and, therefore, the individual grip positions (e.g. crimp, open hand, pinch, etc.) are slow to increase strength. This should help you understand why a full season of climbing may indeed improve your local forearm endurance, but do little to increase you absolute maximum grip strength. Therefore, varying grip positions is a great strategy for maximizing endurance when climbing for performance, but it stinks for training maximum grip strength.

Effective finger strength training demands you target a specific grip position and work it until failure.

As a final note, it may be best for some climbers to engage in physical conditioning that is not sport-specific in nature. For example, an overweight individual is better off spending some time performing aerobic exercise (and, of course, improve their dietary surveillance) rather than supplemental sport-specific climbing exercises. Likewise, someone lacking even modest "base strength" (i.e. unable to do even a few pull-ups, push-ups, abdominal crunches, etc.) is wise to engage in a period of standard circuit training to improve general conditioning.

In the final analysis, if you are serious about climbing performance you must not be satisfied simply "climbing for training", nor can you mindlessly adhere to old adages or train in the flawed ways as most other climbers do.


csproul


Aug 20, 2009, 11:25 AM
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First of all, I'm not reading all that! Second, you just made my point. We are talking about a beginning climber here, and what they can do to "pre-pair" for climbing (if you can extract what the OP was trying to say at all!). Would you tell a person who is getting into swimming to start doing some weight training to prepare for this new activity? Would you tell a person who is starting to run to begin by strengthening their legs through weight training? Of course not! Then you've got 10 paragraphs about how non-sport specific training may be helpful to attaining training goals "if you are serious about climbing performance" (i.e. goals that are beyond a beginning climber!). Even if that is true, we are talking about a beginning climber here! From your own text (or is it Eric Horst's?)
In reply to:
Eric Horst states in 'how to climb 5.12'

an old adage that "climbing is the best training for climbing" and many climbers use this line as an excuse for not engaging in any supplemental training activities. Let's examine this precept and determine, once and for all, if it is valid.

When I am asked the question "Is climbing the best training for climbing?", my canned answer is "it depends."
There are two sides of the training-for-climbing coin to consider:
1. in terms of improving climbing technique and mental skills, "climbing as training" is the only way to go,
2. developing high levels of sport-specific strength (i.e. grip strength, lock-off ability, upper-body power and such) demands supplement targeted training outside of just sending at the crags.
which one (1 or 2) would you say better describes the needs of a beginning climber?!


shockabuku


Aug 20, 2009, 11:45 AM
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ckirkwood9 wrote:
In reply to:
You will be hard pressed to find many people that climb at a high level who would advocate training with a forearm trainer or pullups etc...I think that this holds even more true for a beginner.

It is YOU who is missing the point. The OP's question was "I'm a beginner, what can i do to get ready for climbing" and you keep talking about professionals and hard-core climbers.

The person is a BEGINNER, probably with little grip strength (as opposed to those i originally referred to such as manual laborers or cyclists who already have some grip strength from their activities)

Those with little grip strength will most certainly benefit from strength-training for grip strength by ...you guessed it...gripping. Using the device I mentioned will allow a new climber (or an injured climber working to get his/her strength/endurance back) to work his grip strength to failure via high reps.

Moving forward: from an interview with dainiel woods - professional climber

http://www.rockclimbing.com/Articles/General/Daniel_Woods_Professional_Climber_with_no_limits__858.html

Daniel: The most challenging thing about training is motivation.

All I want to do is climb but I recognize that some things cannot be done unless I get stronger or have more experience. I used to do the typical training such as pull ups, push ups, ab workouts, 1 arm hangs and pull ups etc. but it got too boring. Now I feel the best method is to climb as much as possible and travel to new areas with new stone. Your psyche is maintained and you gain more experience.
he says that the BEST METHOD is to climb as much as possible (which i agreed to)
he also says that he used to do other training methods "pull ups, push ups, ab workouts, 1 arm hangs" but it got boring.
He didn't say that it didn't help his climbing.


Eric Horst states in 'how to climb 5.12'

an old adage that "climbing is the best training for climbing" and many climbers use this line as an excuse for not engaging in any supplemental training activities. Let's examine this precept and determine, once and for all, if it is valid.

When I am asked the question "Is climbing the best training for climbing?", my canned answer is "it depends."
There are two sides of the training-for-climbing coin to consider:
1. in terms of improving climbing technique and mental skills, "climbing as training" is the only way to go,
2. developing high levels of sport-specific strength (i.e. grip strength, lock-off ability, upper-body power and such) demands supplement targeted training outside of just sending at the crags.

Here's why.

The goals and course of effective action of "climbing" versus "training" are very different. For instance, the goal in climbing is to avoid muscular failure at all costs and, hopefully, reach the top of a boulder problem or climb. Conversely, effective training for climbing demands a stimulus of sufficient intensity to produce muscular failure in a few minutes (when training anaerobic endurance) and a few seconds (when training maximum strength and power).
Summarizing--in climbing, you strive to avoid failure; in training, you need to pursue failure.

Another example that underscores the difference between climbing and training for climbing is the way in which you grip the rock. In climbing, the rock dictates a random use of many different grip positions and, at times, you may even deliberately vary the way you grip the rock. As a result, it's unlikely that any single grip position will ever get worked maximally and, therefore, the individual grip positions (e.g. crimp, open hand, pinch, etc.) are slow to increase strength. This should help you understand why a full season of climbing may indeed improve your local forearm endurance, but do little to increase you absolute maximum grip strength. Therefore, varying grip positions is a great strategy for maximizing endurance when climbing for performance, but it stinks for training maximum grip strength.

Effective finger strength training demands you target a specific grip position and work it until failure.

As a final note, it may be best for some climbers to engage in physical conditioning that is not sport-specific in nature. For example, an overweight individual is better off spending some time performing aerobic exercise (and, of course, improve their dietary surveillance) rather than supplemental sport-specific climbing exercises. Likewise, someone lacking even modest "base strength" (i.e. unable to do even a few pull-ups, push-ups, abdominal crunches, etc.) is wise to engage in a period of standard circuit training to improve general conditioning.

In the final analysis, if you are serious about climbing performance you must not be satisfied simply "climbing for training", nor can you mindlessly adhere to old adages or train in the flawed ways as most other climbers do.

Maybe you could highlight the part where it says a forearm trainer will help you become a better climber?


bobbj22


Aug 20, 2009, 1:29 PM
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Hand exerciser will contribute slightly to climbing compared to doing nothing at all. Climbing will contribute greatly compared to using a hand exerciser. With that said I own one. It's for my road rage though -I just had to upgrade to 60 lbs since my 50 lb. is taking too long to get a pump (I hate crappy drivers). Everyone should have to retake a driver's exam every 25 years. Can't budge me on that one.

Anyways, go climb and stop worrying. You'll do fine. If not, work at it. Dedication leads to higher satisfaction.


zchandran


Aug 20, 2009, 1:41 PM
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csproul wrote:
First of all, I'm not reading all that! Second, you just made my point. We are talking about a beginning climber here, and what they can do to "pre-pair" for climbing (if you can extract what the OP was trying to say at all!). Would you tell a person who is getting into swimming to start doing some weight training to prepare for this new activity?

I'm at about the one year mark climbing, so let me chime in here with a beginner's viewpoint.

As a beginner, it SEEMS as if grip strength is what is holding you back. But it is completely useless to work on grip strength, because that's where you make the slowest improvements. There shouldn't be anything on a route this side of 5.11 that requires great grip. If anything, it would be more useful to do calf raises so that you can stand comfortably on your big toes.

My biggest breakthrough as a beginner was in realizing that if I ever thought "I don't have the grip strength to make this move", the sentence I should be thinking immediately after is "I'm doing this wrong, forget the hands, what should my feet be doing here?" Once I purged grip strength from my thinking, it opened the way for focusing on balance and kinesthetics.


mitchy


Aug 21, 2009, 6:33 AM
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my forearm trainer is to the left of my right front pocketWink


bobbj22


Aug 21, 2009, 6:46 AM
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forearm trainer...not to be mistaken with third arm trainer


ckirkwood9


Aug 21, 2009, 7:06 AM
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Re: [zchandran] Climbing advise [In reply to]
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In reply to:
There shouldn't be anything on a route this side of 5.11 that requires great grip.

Have you ever tried doing a traverse across the under-side of a roof or a sustained overhang?

my gym has quite a few very pumpy overhangs and roofs in the 5.9s and 5.10 range that require a fair amount of grip strength and lot of endurance (as well as good technique):



the pump you get climbing the red or yellow wall in the photo will quickly change your opinion.

And a trip up to the Gunks to get on the sharp-end of any number of sub-5.11 pumpy routes will also have you wishing for JUUUSSSST a LITTLE more endurance as you scramble to shove a tiny stopper into a crack.


ckirkwood9


Aug 21, 2009, 7:44 AM
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Re: [csproul] Climbing advise [In reply to]
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csproul wrote:
Would you tell a person who is getting into swimming to start doing some weight training to prepare for this new activity? Would you tell a person who is starting to run to begin by strengthening their legs through weight training? Of course not!

Your examples are as bad as your logic.

Swimming is a very low-stress workout, so no... it wouldn't make sense to tell a new swimmer to prepare with weight training (though it would probably help them acclimate faster to the sport if they did).

Climbing creates a LOT of stress on the hands and forearms of a new climber and having some initial training of these muscles will most certainly reduce the impact of that stress.

As for your running example: while most may not suggest a person start weight training to begin a running program, it would HELP they if they had some initial conditioning. ALSO it's always a good idea for one to warm up before running. The BD ring could be used for warming up before a day of climbing.


In reply to:
In reply to:
1. in terms of improving climbing technique and mental skills, "climbing as training" is the only way to go,
2. developing high levels of sport-specific strength (i.e. grip strength, lock-off ability, upper-body power and such) demands supplement targeted training outside of just sending at the crags.
which one (1 or 2) would you say better describes the needs of a beginning climber?!


A beginner climber will need BOTH 1 AND 2. They'll need the 'mental skills' that will slowly develop from climbing AND sport-specific strength which will also be developed from climbing but would be helped along by 'supplement targeted training'.

I never suggested that the new climber use a forearm trainer INSTEAD of climbing. I suggested it's use in ADDITION to climbing... and that they could just carry it around with them mindlessly squeezing it throughout the day.


csproul


Aug 21, 2009, 7:55 AM
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ckirkwood9 wrote:
csproul wrote:
Would you tell a person who is getting into swimming to start doing some weight training to prepare for this new activity? Would you tell a person who is starting to run to begin by strengthening their legs through weight training? Of course not!

Your examples are as bad as your logic.

Swimming is a very low-stress workout, so no... it wouldn't make sense to tell a new swimmer to prepare with weight training (though it would probably help them acclimate faster to the sport if they did).

Climbing creates a LOT of stress on the hands and forearms of a new climber and having some initial training of these muscles will most certainly reduce the impact of that stress.

As for your running example: while most may not suggest a person start weight training to begin a running program, it would HELP they if they had some initial conditioning. ALSO it's always a good idea for one to warm up before running. The BD ring could be used for warming up before a day of climbing.


In reply to:
In reply to:
1. in terms of improving climbing technique and mental skills, "climbing as training" is the only way to go,
2. developing high levels of sport-specific strength (i.e. grip strength, lock-off ability, upper-body power and such) demands supplement targeted training outside of just sending at the crags.
which one (1 or 2) would you say better describes the needs of a beginning climber?!


A beginner climber will need BOTH 1 AND 2. They'll need the 'mental skills' that will slowly develop from climbing AND sport-specific strength which will also be developed from climbing but would be helped along by 'supplement targeted training'.

I never suggested that the new climber use a forearm trainer INSTEAD of climbing. I suggested it's use in ADDITION to climbing... and that they could just carry it around with them mindlessly squeezing it throughout the day.
Holy shit, are you a dumbass. They were your examples, not mine. Good idea, let's take beginners who are already prone to overuse injuries and suggest that they take on additional stresses to the hands and forearms. That would be much better than focusing on building technique that might actually help alleviate some of those stresses. I'm done with arguing. You can play fake-coach to all the beginning climbers you want, but can you find me one credible source of (climbing) coaching that suggests that a beginning climber would benefit from using a forearm trainer (and we're not talking about "warming up" here either)? I doubt it.


(This post was edited by csproul on Aug 21, 2009, 7:58 AM)

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