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shimanilami
Aug 20, 2009, 3:50 PM
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Anyone who's tested a piece, had it blow, and fallen on their daisy chain knows it hurts. Why aren't daisies made with dynamic materials? Wouldn't that make more sense?
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kennoyce
Aug 20, 2009, 3:54 PM
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sure it would, but first answer the question: How would you make a daisy chain out of dynamic material?
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codhands
Aug 20, 2009, 3:57 PM
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It seems to me that static material is inherently more durable than dynamic, but that is just a wild guess.
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shimanilami
Aug 20, 2009, 4:00 PM
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kennoyce wrote: sure it would, but first answer the question: How would you make a daisy chain out of dynamic material?
True. You'd need dynamic webbing, which I've never seen before. But it would be nice.
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kennoyce
Aug 20, 2009, 4:06 PM
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Yeah, there may be some way to make it, but overall, I think it would be pretty hard to make dynamic webbing because you would either have to use a stretchy material that is strong enough, or you would have to find a way of weaving or twisting the fibers (think of a dymanic ropes core) to allow them to stretch appropriatly. overall I think it would be a pretty hard taks.
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gmggg
Aug 20, 2009, 4:10 PM
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kennoyce wrote: sure it would, but first answer the question: How would you make a daisy chain out of dynamic material?
Easy! just tie a couple Alp butterflies in a length of 7/8 mil. rope.
Next!
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kennoyce
Aug 20, 2009, 4:19 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: sure it would, but first answer the question: How would you make a daisy chain out of dynamic material? Easy! just tie a couple Alp butterflies in a length of 7/8 mil. rope. Next!
I don't quite think 7/8 mil rope will quite hold up to the abuse, I mean really 7/8 mm is .0344 inches. I highly doubt that your daisy chain will hold more than 10 lbs. I don't even know where you would buy rope that small.
okay, but in all seriousness, while this would work, you won't get the adjustability that you can get with a sewn daisy chain, it would be much more bulky, and you can't sew the rope into loops. Basically I'm just trying to say that it wouldn't be all that usefull.
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gmggg
Aug 20, 2009, 4:26 PM
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kennoyce wrote: In reply to: In reply to: sure it would, but first answer the question: How would you make a daisy chain out of dynamic material? Easy! just tie a couple Alp butterflies in a length of 7/8 mil. rope. Next! I don't quite think 7/8 mil rope will quite hold up to the abuse, I mean really 7/8 mm is .0344 inches. I highly doubt that your daisy chain will hold more than 10 lbs. I don't even know where you would buy rope that small. okay, but in all seriousness, while this would work, you won't get the adjustability that you can get with a sewn daisy chain, it would be much more bulky, and you can't sew the rope into loops. Basically I'm just trying to say that it wouldn't be all that usefull.
Yep, but neither is a daisy in a situation where you want some dynamic properties.
In all serious though, wouldn't a purcell prussik work?
Or for a very slightly less bulky rope system, a loop of 7/8 (er.. 7 or 8) mm rope tied into a loop with overhand knots every 2-3 inches.
As for abuse, I think the rope would hold up fine, it isn't exactly being used as a haul line...
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adatesman
Aug 20, 2009, 4:50 PM
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saltydog
Aug 20, 2009, 4:58 PM
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some of the via ferratta type rigs may work, but they are typically rigged in pairs/lobster claws.
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shoo
Aug 20, 2009, 5:09 PM
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adatesman wrote: shoo wrote: adatesman wrote: Another alternative would be the super-secret personal anchor I pitched to one of the gear companies a while back . . . A shame, since it's infinitely adjustable and can dissipate force like a screamer. Oh, it's less bulky too.  I don't think you can patent clove hitching your rope. DAMMIT! 
Snark aside, I am now curious. You sir, are a tease.
Edited for wrong quote.
(This post was edited by shoo on Aug 20, 2009, 5:14 PM)
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adatesman
Aug 20, 2009, 5:13 PM
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knieveltech
Aug 20, 2009, 5:44 PM
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adatesman wrote: shoo wrote: adatesman wrote: gmggg wrote: In all serious though, wouldn't a purcell prussik work? That would be my guess too. Depending on material selection and knot used you may even be able to get it to slip a bit. Another alternative would be the super-secret personal anchor I pitched to one of the gear companies a while back, but it looks like manufacturing costs would be too high for it to make it to market (simple to make, but can't be done by machine and therefore expensive). A shame, since it's infinitely adjustable and can dissipate force like a screamer. Oh, it's less bulky too. Snark aside, I am now curious. You sir, are a tease. I'm a tease all right, 'cause the only hint I'll give is that our formerly-blue-overlord has seen it and can vouch for its existence.  
Useless without pictures.
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TaoJones
Aug 20, 2009, 5:45 PM
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Slap one of these on the end of your daisy.
http://tr.im/wMhX
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majid_sabet
Aug 20, 2009, 5:47 PM
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Purcell prussic is the answer .
(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Aug 20, 2009, 7:16 PM)
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pbcowboy77
Aug 20, 2009, 5:51 PM
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They are not dynamic cause when you weight them you would loose progress. Also when jugging on dynamic daisies you would have way too much bounce and stretch and you would loose efficiency. It's like when you have your lines fixed up a pitch and you and your partner try and be the first one ready to jug so you can be the one that goes up your static haul line.
There are ways to do a dynamic daisies and I'm thinking about trying one way on my next wall but you need to bring a set of static ones for jugging too.
Here are a couple of links to better sites about walls and the topics where dynamic daisies are talked about.
http://www.bigwalls.com/...ndex.php?topic=636.0
and...
http://www.supertopo.com/...c_id=881807&tn=0
The one on supertopo you have to dig for...
Hope this helped... Why would you want to aid climb anyways? It's nothing but suffering...
ZAc
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adatesman
Aug 20, 2009, 6:00 PM
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knieveltech
Aug 20, 2009, 6:21 PM
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adatesman wrote: knieveltech wrote: adatesman wrote: shoo wrote: adatesman wrote: gmggg wrote: In all serious though, wouldn't a purcell prussik work? That would be my guess too. Depending on material selection and knot used you may even be able to get it to slip a bit. Another alternative would be the super-secret personal anchor I pitched to one of the gear companies a while back, but it looks like manufacturing costs would be too high for it to make it to market (simple to make, but can't be done by machine and therefore expensive). A shame, since it's infinitely adjustable and can dissipate force like a screamer. Oh, it's less bulky too. Snark aside, I am now curious. You sir, are a tease. I'm a tease all right, 'cause the only hint I'll give is that our formerly-blue-overlord has seen it and can vouch for its existence. Useless without pictures. You mean of Jay, right?
Naw, I already have photos of Jay.
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Jnclk
Aug 20, 2009, 6:23 PM
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Even if it were made of dynamic material it wouldn't be long enough to really act dynamically. For example five feet of dynamic rope doesn't stretch much.
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k.l.k
Aug 20, 2009, 6:34 PM
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shimanilami wrote: Anyone who's tested a piece, had it blow, and fallen on their daisy chain knows it hurts. Why aren't daisies made with dynamic materials? Wouldn't that make more sense?
i dont even like aid climbing, but when i have to do it, i i don't want a daisy that stretches.
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kennoyce
Aug 20, 2009, 7:13 PM
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Yeah, I think what you would really want is something like a reusable screamer on the daisy (something like that freaking energy absorber) that won't stretch under body weight, but will absorb energy once activated.
and as for the 7 or 8 mm rope mentioned earlier by someone else, I was just joking around about 7/8 mm rope since that was what was written.
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shimanilami
Aug 20, 2009, 7:58 PM
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pbcowboy77 wrote: They are not dynamic cause when you weight them you would loose progress...
Very insightful, what you said and Kate also.
I like the traditional daisy design. For where I'm at with my aiding skills, they work just fine. I think the take home message for me is that if the piece is dicey, clip the rope and remove the daisy before stepping up.
Regarding your question, "Why would you want to aid anyways?" Well, to paraphrase St. Augustine, "Suffering cleanses the soul."
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