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when would you ever belay 2 people at once?
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possum2082


Sep 15, 2009, 9:25 AM
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when would you ever belay 2 people at once?
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i'm getting into some light multi pitch trad and contemplating buying a reverso/guide. both have a feature that you to belay 2 people at once.

when and how would this ever be necessary? if 2 people are climbing, wouldn't the lower climber's rope get in the way of the higher person.

flame on.

thanks.


(This post was edited by possum2082 on Sep 16, 2009, 12:23 PM)


madscientist


Sep 15, 2009, 9:30 AM
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Re: [possum2082] when would you every belay 2 people at once? [In reply to]
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If you have three people on a multi-pitch route, then the two people seconding can climb at once to make it faster. The lower persons rope can get in the way, but any toprope can get in the way. I have done the diamond with three this way, and it only slows the party down a small amount. In my opinion, to do a long route with three, you either need very faster climbers or you use a reverso/guide.


colatownkid


Sep 15, 2009, 9:31 AM
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Re: [possum2082] when would you every belay 2 people at once? [In reply to]
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possum2082 wrote:
i'm getting into some light multi pitch trad and contemplating buying a reverso/guide. both have a feature that you to belay 2 people at once.

when and how would this ever be necessary? if 2 people are climbing, wouldn't the lower climber's rope get in the way of the higher person.

flame on.

thanks.

the only time the rope really tends to get in the way is on roofs or traverses, in which case you should climb caterpillar styles instead. for climbing doubles, though, it generally works fine.


swaghole


Sep 15, 2009, 9:40 AM
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Re: [possum2082] when would you every belay 2 people at once? [In reply to]
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possum2082 wrote:
i'm getting into some light multi pitch trad and contemplating buying a reverso/guide. both have a feature that you to belay 2 people at once.

when and how would this ever be necessary? if 2 people are climbing, wouldn't the lower climber's rope get in the way of the higher person.

flame on.

thanks.

This is often used on ice/alpine climbs with parties of 3. One person leads the pitch and the 2 seconds follow at the same time. This saves a lot of time. The 2 seconds try to climb at the same pace so the rope won't get in the way and they wont' know off ice chunks on each other.


dingus


Sep 15, 2009, 9:42 AM
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Re: [colatownkid] when would you every belay 2 people at once? [In reply to]
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I DO belay two people at once when:

1. Simul-climbing as a party of three
2. One rope, 3 climbers.
3. When using doubles.

Never had the need for any fancy guide devices though. ATC-XP works fine for my applications.

My most common means would be one climber ties in ~30 feet short, the 3rd is on the end of the rope.

Its probably reckless. I'm reckless. If you do as I do you will be reckless too. This is not advice.

Do whatever you want.

DMT


granite_grrl


Sep 15, 2009, 9:48 AM
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Re: [madscientist] when would you every belay 2 people at once? [In reply to]
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I should also mention that bringing up people who are really new to climbing can be hazardous. The stretch on a one double line in much more than with a single line. There are also the potential problems with traverses and wandering routes that your seconds should be comfortable with.


possum2082


Sep 15, 2009, 9:55 AM
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okay. this seems to make a lot more sense now. i'd like to try it (on easier routes, of course) soon.
thank you everyone for the input.


Partner neuroshock


Sep 15, 2009, 10:51 AM
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Re: [possum2082] when would you every belay 2 people at once? [In reply to]
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possum2082 wrote:
i'm getting into some light multi pitch trad and contemplating buying a reverso/guide. both have a feature that you to belay 2 people at once.

What are the other options that you're considering?

I know that this isn't quite an answer to your original question but think about the devices' features in this way (instead of 'belaying two seconds'). They are lightweight belay devices that allow you to belay your second directly off of the anchor in autoblock mode (regardless of your rope system: singles, twins, or doubles) and rappel.


possum2082


Sep 15, 2009, 11:47 AM
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i'm a little ashamed to admit that, right now, i'm carrying up an atc and a grigri.

and i know that you can abseil with a grigri, i just don't like it.

i usually just climb with one person and it would be wonderful just to carry a lightweight device that slingshot belays, abseils, and belays a second from up high.

maybe, then i won't be draggin up so much crap.


gmggg


Sep 15, 2009, 11:49 AM
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Re: [possum2082] when would you every belay 2 people at once? [In reply to]
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possum2082 wrote:
i'm a little ashamed to admit that, right now, i'm carrying up an atc and a grigri.

and i know that you can abseil with a grigri, i just don't like it.

i usually just climb with one person and it would be wonderful just to carry a lightweight device that slingshot belays, abseils, and belays a second from up high.

maybe, then i won't be draggin up so much crap.

STFU N00B!!11!!


possum2082


Sep 15, 2009, 11:54 AM
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Re: [gmggg] when would you every belay 2 people at once? [In reply to]
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what is 11?


gmggg


Sep 15, 2009, 11:55 AM
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Re: [possum2082] when would you every belay 2 people at once? [In reply to]
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possum2082 wrote:
what is 11?

the first palindromic prime.


possum2082


Sep 15, 2009, 11:57 AM
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Re: [gmggg] when would you every belay 2 people at once? [In reply to]
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i love it.


squishy654


Sep 15, 2009, 11:58 AM
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Re: [dingus] when would you every belay 2 people at once? [In reply to]
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dingus wrote:
I DO belay two people at once when:

1. Simul-climbing as a party of three
2. One rope, 3 climbers.
3. When using doubles.

Never had the need for any fancy guide devices though. ATC-XP works fine for my applications.

My most common means would be one climber ties in ~30 feet short, the 3rd is on the end of the rope.

Its probably reckless. I'm reckless. If you do as I do you will be reckless too. This is not advice.

Do whatever you want.

DMT

This is what I have done, you don't need a device that can belay from the anchor to do so...


JAB


Sep 15, 2009, 1:38 PM
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Re: [dingus] when would you every belay 2 people at once? [In reply to]
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dingus wrote:
Do whatever you want.

Except if it will get you killed. Angelic


sungam


Sep 15, 2009, 2:48 PM
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Re: [dingus] when would you every belay 2 people at once? [In reply to]
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dingus wrote:
I DO belay two people at once when:

1. Simul-climbing as a party of three
Sorry, dingus, I couldn't resist Tongue


wjca


Sep 15, 2009, 3:14 PM
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Re: [possum2082] when would you every belay 2 people at once? [In reply to]
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I don't know about belaying 2 people at once, but I've recently been wondering about having sex with 2 people at once.

You see, I'm getting into some light multi sex partner action and am contemplating buying a double dog, which has a feature that you can screw 2 people at once.

when and how would this ever be necessary? if 2 people are screwing, wouldn't the lower person's rope get in the way of the higher person.

flame on.

thanks.


dr_feelgood


Sep 15, 2009, 4:28 PM
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Re: [JAB] when would you every belay 2 people at once? [In reply to]
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JAB wrote:
dingus wrote:
Do whatever you want.

Except if it will get you killed. Angelic
Safety is nothing without freedom.


jakedatc


Sep 15, 2009, 6:19 PM
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Re: [sungam] when would you every belay 2 people at once? [In reply to]
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sungam wrote:
dingus wrote:
I DO belay two people at once when:

1. Simul-climbing as a party of three
Sorry, dingus, I couldn't resist Tongue

hey uhhh haggis donny. the 2 followers can simulclimb while the leader belays.. party of 3..

good try there chief


jermeng


Sep 15, 2009, 9:54 PM
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Re: [possum2082] when would you every belay 2 people at once? [In reply to]
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Hey Possum, I haven't seen anyone mention the B-52 by Trango. It's my favorite autoblock device, 1/3 less bulk than the guide or R3. They main drawback to the thing is that it's a little more complicated to release from the autoblock when weighted; and on that note, whichever device you choose, be sure you are familiar with how to release a loaded autoblock and practice. Another thing about the B-52 is that it's seems to have less "grab" than the other devices, making for quicker rappels and lowering.

If you'd really like to go lightweight, a nice HMS carabiner and the Munter hitch is the lightest. Doesn't rap as well on 2 ropes strands but belays off the anchor quite well from above.

just my 2-cents.

-Jeremy


curt


Sep 15, 2009, 10:23 PM
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dingus wrote:
I DO belay two people at once when:

1. Simul-climbing as a party of three
2. One rope, 3 climbers.
3. When using doubles.

Never had the need for any fancy guide devices though. ATC-XP works fine for my applications.

My most common means would be one climber ties in ~30 feet short, the 3rd is on the end of the rope.

Its probably reckless. I'm reckless. If you do as I do you will be reckless too. This is not advice.

Do whatever you want.

DMT

I actually like to waist belay in that situation. I personally find it to be faster and easier to take up uneven amounts of slack--in case the two followers are not climbing at exactly the same speed. With the waist belay you can also easily belay one person leading the pitch above you while at the same time bringing up another climber on the pitch below you. With the two ropes fed around your body in the same direction, taking up slack in the rope below you results in simultaneously feeding out slack in the lead rope.

For those of you who are now completely confused by what I just said--please do not try this. But, if you become familiar with this technique it can work really well--particularly on easy ground.

Curt


Guran


Sep 16, 2009, 1:14 AM
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dingus wrote:
I DO belay two people at once when:

1. Simul-climbing as a party of three
2. One rope, 3 climbers.
3. When using doubles.

Never had the need for any fancy guide devices though. ATC-XP works fine for my applications.

My most common means would be one climber ties in ~30 feet short, the 3rd is on the end of the rope.

Its probably reckless. I'm reckless. If you do as I do you will be reckless too. This is not advice.

Do whatever you want.

DMT

Sure you don't need a "guide mode" device to belay two seconds (on doubles). Sure makes it easier though.

Having second tying in short and third at the end is fine, but only (imho) with more experienced climbers. The second must be comfortable with the fact that that the third might fall, and the third must plan his moves as to not build up too much slack to the second nor shortroping him at a crux.


cantbuymefriends


Sep 16, 2009, 1:40 AM
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Re: [possum2082] when would you every belay 2 people at once? [In reply to]
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possum2082 wrote:
i'm getting into some light multi pitch trad and contemplating buying a reverso/guide. both have a feature that you to belay 2 people at once.

Or to belay one climber on double or twin ropes.


ladyscarlett


Sep 16, 2009, 2:12 AM
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curt wrote:

I actually like to waist belay in that situation. I personally find it to be faster and easier to take up uneven amounts of slack--in case the two followers are not climbing at exactly the same speed. With the waist belay you can also easily belay one person leading the pitch above you while at the same time bringing up another climber on the pitch below you. With the two ropes fed around your body in the same direction, taking up slack in the rope below you results in simultaneously feeding out slack in the lead rope.

For those of you who are now completely confused by what I just said--please do not try this. But, if you become familiar with this technique it can work really well--particularly on easy ground.

Curt

Wow! Although I had to read carefully, this sounds really nifty! I'm not ready to try this on the rock, but definitely going to work it out on the ground to see if I can get my body to listen to my head.

As a part of a three climber team, I've been wondering how to streamline a little more than what we've tried. This is intriguing!

Cheers!

ls


patto


Sep 16, 2009, 2:17 AM
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Re: [possum2082] when would you every belay 2 people at once? [In reply to]
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You seem to be forgetting that the autoblock function also can belay ONE person in autoblock fashion. Personally I don't understand why anybody doing multipitch climbing would not have such a device these days.

I use my reverso in autoblock fasion about 90% of the time. I also belay 2 people at once quite often too certainly I do it when I climb in a group of 3.

Also autoblock devices make ascending and rescue hauling quite easy if you don't make a habit of carrying one way pulleys or ascenders.

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