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jt512
Sep 17, 2009, 12:02 AM
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An open letter to the knucklehead who left garbage draws on Mercy Buckets at the Bear Crag last weekend
Dear Knucklehead,
If you leave gear on a route it should be gear that others can use in your absence—you don't own the route. The draws you left on your project were substandard and unsafe. One of your draws was made from stiff, apparently weathered cordage. One of the biners on this draw would not close completely, guaranteeing that it would be loaded with its gate open in the event of a fall. Most of your other draws were too short, which caused the gate of the bottom biner to rub against the rock, rather than hang over the lip of the roof, creating the risk, again, of open-gate loading in a fall. On one such draw open-gate loading was essentially assured by the terrible design of your off-brand rope-end biner, whose wiregate protruded a quarter inch on each side of the nose—my grandmother could design a better biner than this, and she has Alzheimer's disease.
When I saw the gear you left, I was tempted to replace all of it with my own draws. I elected instead, to replace only the three most dangerous. Because my partner's last run off the day was a TR burn on your route it was easy for her to swap your draws back in for ours. However, after thinking about the ethics of the situation, I will not feel obligated to do so if I ever find substandard project gear on an open route again. If you leave draws on a route, and don't plan to return the next day to climb, you have an obligation to leave gear that is up to modern sport climbing standards. If you don't, and I feel uncomfortable about climbing on your gear, I will not hesitate to replace it with my own, and leave yours at the base of the route.
Jay
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hafilax
Sep 17, 2009, 12:10 AM
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As a visiting trad climber I typically have a knife on my harness should I need to cut away old tat.
I'm just sayin... 
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TerminalVelocity
Sep 17, 2009, 1:40 AM
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jt512 wrote: An open letter to the knucklehead who left garbage draws on Mercy Buckets at the Bear Crag last weekend Dear Knucklehead, If you leave gear on a route it should be gear that others can use in your absence—you don't own the route. The draws you left on your project were substandard and unsafe. One of your draws was made from stiff, apparently weathered cordage. One of the biners on this draw would not close completely, guaranteeing that it would be loaded with its gate open in the event of a fall. Most of your other draws were too short, which caused the gate of the bottom biner to rub against the rock, rather than hang over the lip of the roof, creating the risk, again, of open-gate loading in a fall. On one such draw open-gate loading was essentially assured by the terrible design of your off-brand rope-end biner, whose wiregate protruded a quarter inch on each side of the nose—my grandmother could design a better biner than this, and she has Alzheimer's disease. When I saw the gear you left, I was tempted to replace all of it with my own draws. I elected instead, to replace only the three most dangerous. Because my partner's last run off the day was a TR burn on your route it was easy for her to swap your draws back in for ours. However, after thinking about the ethics of the situation, I will not feel obligated to do so if I ever find substandard project gear on an open route again. If you leave draws on a route, and don't plan to return the next day to climb, you have an obligation to leave gear that is up to modern sport climbing standards. If you don't, and I feel uncomfortable about climbing on your gear, I will not hesitate to replace it with my own, and leave yours at the base of the route. Jay
Haha, I would of just left them there hoping the moron who did that would come back and bust his ass. Every climber should know that is a potentially dangerous situation. By first looking up and and seeing the route ahead people should know not to trust the gear. But some poor stupid bastard who doesn't know (but should), that the gear was faulty and not extended properly, could get himself killed.
You did the right thing, at your own expense but, should have taken them all down and left them at the base of the climb and saved a few greenbacks. But you are a better man than I.
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lena_chita
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Sep 17, 2009, 2:45 PM
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I've heard stories like that.
Someone I climbed with a couple of weeks ago replaced tow bad draws on a project with his own, and left the bad gear at the bottom of the climb for the owner to find. Bad idea-- when he came back two days later, the bad gear was on the climb again, and his good new draws were gone.
The stupidity of human race cannot be underestimated. Ever.
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IsayAutumn
Sep 17, 2009, 3:14 PM
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jt512 wrote: An open letter to the knucklehead who left garbage draws on Mercy Buckets at the Bear Crag last weekend Dear Knucklehead, If you leave gear on a route it should be gear that others can use in your absence—you don't own the route. The draws you left on your project were substandard and unsafe. One of your draws was made from stiff, apparently weathered cordage. One of the biners on this draw would not close completely, guaranteeing that it would be loaded with its gate open in the event of a fall. Most of your other draws were too short, which caused the gate of the bottom biner to rub against the rock, rather than hang over the lip of the roof, creating the risk, again, of open-gate loading in a fall. On one such draw open-gate loading was essentially assured by the terrible design of your off-brand rope-end biner, whose wiregate protruded a quarter inch on each side of the nose—my grandmother could design a better biner than this, and she has Alzheimer's disease. When I saw the gear you left, I was tempted to replace all of it with my own draws. I elected instead, to replace only the three most dangerous. Because my partner's last run off the day was a TR burn on your route it was easy for her to swap your draws back in for ours. However, after thinking about the ethics of the situation, I will not feel obligated to do so if I ever find substandard project gear on an open route again. If you leave draws on a route, and don't plan to return the next day to climb, you have an obligation to leave gear that is up to modern sport climbing standards. If you don't, and I feel uncomfortable about climbing on your gear, I will not hesitate to replace it with my own, and leave yours at the base of the route. Jay
I don't understand why you would replace them with your own draws. Were you thinking you would get them back, or were you just trying to prevent someone (other than the perp.?) from getting hurt? .. at your own expense?
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dingus
Sep 17, 2009, 3:28 PM
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You should have cut the bad draws J. Please do it next time.
DMT
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lena_chita
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Sep 17, 2009, 3:29 PM
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IsayAutumn wrote: I don't understand why you would replace them with your own draws. Were you thinking you would get them back, or were you just trying to prevent someone (other than the perp.?) from getting hurt? .. at your own expense?
Believe it or not, many people replace worn out or dangerous fixed gear with their own gear at their own expence.
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IsayAutumn
Sep 17, 2009, 3:33 PM
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lena_chita wrote: IsayAutumn wrote: I don't understand why you would replace them with your own draws. Were you thinking you would get them back, or were you just trying to prevent someone (other than the perp.?) from getting hurt? .. at your own expense? Believe it or not, many people replace worn out or dangerous fixed gear with their own gear at their own expence.
But this doesn't seem like a "fixed gear" case to me. It sounds like Jay was talking about someone's old manky draws.
But thanks for your condescension.
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roninthorne
Sep 17, 2009, 3:37 PM
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For decades, now... God knows how many bolts, hangers, chains, quick links, welded cold shuts, webbing... Most sport climbers seem to take it for granted that climbing fixed gear regenerates or is indestructible.
All in all, a karmically-balanced response, jt.... fix the worst and keep yourself safe, but don't fix ALL the stupid or remain silent about it.
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dingus
Sep 17, 2009, 3:38 PM
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aren't ALL sport routes a case of fixed gear?
Not condescening... just asking bro, just asking!
DMT
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IsayAutumn
Sep 17, 2009, 3:40 PM
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dingus wrote: aren't ALL sport routes a case of fixed gear? Not condescening... just asking bro, just asking! DMT
Well...maybe I missed the point of Jay's post. I'll show myself out.
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jamincan
Sep 17, 2009, 4:09 PM
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IsayAutumn wrote: I don't understand why you would replace them with your own draws. Were you thinking you would get them back, or were you just trying to prevent someone (other than the perp.?) from getting hurt? .. at your own expense?
He only swapped them while he was on the route; his partner replaced the draws when they were done.
In reply to: Because my partner's last run off the day was a TR burn on your route it was easy for her to swap your draws back in for ours. |
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lemon_boy
Sep 17, 2009, 4:32 PM
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agre with dingus, yank and send to garbage can. i have seen this as a growing trend lately (garbage draws left on routes).
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granite_grrl
Sep 17, 2009, 5:19 PM
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lena_chita wrote: I've heard stories like that. Someone I climbed with a couple of weeks ago replaced tow bad draws on a project with his own, and left the bad gear at the bottom of the climb for the owner to find. Bad idea-- when he came back two days later, the bad gear was on the climb again, and his good new draws were gone. The stupidity of human race cannot be underestimated. Ever.
It kind of reminds me of how some people will take fixed biners from the top of routes because they're worn but don't replace them....or worse, people taking fixed biners off routes because they think they're booty!
Some people have no regard for other climbers.
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lena_chita
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Sep 17, 2009, 5:36 PM
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granite_grrl wrote: Now that's a shity deal. It kind of reminds me of how some people will take fixed biners from the top of routes because they're worn but don't replace them....or worse, people taking fixed biners off routes because they think they're booty! Some people have no regard for other climbers.
yeah, I know... but what else is new?
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cracklover
Sep 17, 2009, 9:00 PM
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This is an important reminder to think twice before automatically assuming those fixed sport draws are good!
A few weeks ago I was climbing at a popular sport crag that typically has fixed draws on some of the routes. I warmed up on a nice 5.11-. The last draw, as you turn the corner on the big roof (people fall here as they're getting really pumped and find themselves on small holds) caught my attention.
As I approached it, I thought it looked a little funny. Here's how it looked as it was hanging on the route: I've circled in red what caught my eye - a little fuzz sticking out from behind.
I didn't like the looks of it, and there was enough room on the bolt hanger, so I clipped another draw over it and clipped into that instead. On my way down I took a closer look. Here's what it looked like when I turned it over to look at the back side:
I stripped it and left my own draw in its place for the next guy who was leading the route.
When I got down, I found that, of the tubular webbing it was made from, half the tube (the side closest to the rock) was worn entirely through, and the second half was worn more than halfway. I doubt it'd have held much more than bodyweight, if that.
I wound up replacing that dogbone with one of my own (wrapped in 15 layers of tape to slow down the wear-through).
What it really needs, though, is a chain, since it sits right over a sharp crystal of rock, just after a roof.
Anyway, caveat escendo.
GO
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shockabuku
Sep 18, 2009, 2:11 AM
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cracklover wrote: Anyway, caveat escendo.
Let the climber beware?
Language isn't my thing.
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angry
Sep 18, 2009, 2:32 AM
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Wall of Justice?
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suprasoup
Sep 18, 2009, 5:36 AM
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dingus wrote: You should have cut the bad draws J. Please do it next time. DMT
I agree. Those draws should have been cut and tossed. Hell this whole nonsense of project draws hanging for days or quickdraws permanently attached to a route leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. The title should be Don't leave your draws (substandard or otherwise) hanging on an open route if you're not physically there (at the crag or at the climb)
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jt512
Sep 18, 2009, 6:14 AM
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suprasoup wrote: dingus wrote: You should have cut the bad draws J. Please do it next time. DMT I agree. Those draws should have been cut and tossed. Hell this whole nonsense of project draws hanging for days or quickdraws permanently attached to a route leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. The title should be Don't leave your draws (substandard or otherwise) hanging on an open route if you're not physically there (at the crag or at the climb)
Wrong. Thanks for playing.
Jay
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suprasoup
Sep 18, 2009, 6:29 AM
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Whatever. Your post. He's not obligated to leave decent gear any more than you are obligated to take his crap down.
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king_rat
Sep 18, 2009, 10:55 AM
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jt512 wrote: suprasoup wrote: dingus wrote: You should have cut the bad draws J. Please do it next time. DMT I agree. Those draws should have been cut and tossed. Hell this whole nonsense of project draws hanging for days or quickdraws permanently attached to a route leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. The title should be Don't leave your draws (substandard or otherwise) hanging on an open route if you're not physically there (at the crag or at the climb)Wrong. Thanks for playing. Jay
I’m not a sports climber so don't really understand the etiquette of leaving projects with all the quick draws in place, though I understand that it is an acceptable practice.
What gets me is that by doing so you are affecting someone else climbing experience. yes others can still climb the route, but climbing and clipping pre-placed quick draws is somewhat easer then clipping the draws and then the rope to the draws. by leaving your project quick draws on a route for a few days you are effectively dictating the style that others can climb the route in.
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angry
Sep 18, 2009, 12:17 PM
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cracklover wrote: angry wrote: Wall of Justice? Correct! Congratulations, you win a torn up dogbone. Hey, how'd you guess? GO
Where else on the front range has fixed draws, easy routes, and a big ol' roof? Half the draws up there have been replaced by chain, no-one would hassle you if you added another chain draw or two to the mix.
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sungam
Sep 18, 2009, 12:54 PM
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G, that's fucking terrifying!
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