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Partner j_ung


Sep 17, 2009, 7:20 AM
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Re: [shockabuku] Thoughts During A Fall On Gear? [In reply to]
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Apologies for an on-topic post.

It's not the thoughts during a fall that matter. It's what I'm thinking before a fall. If I'm climbing the way I should, a fall will at least be a moderate surprise and it'll be over before I have to time to process it. But if I'm climbing scared, as I often do, then the crap spinning round my brain bowl like corn chunks in a toilet are what get me -- and make it even more likely I will end up in the air. Those thoughts are not rational enough to warrant writing down.


Bag11s


Sep 17, 2009, 12:31 PM
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Re: [oldsalt] Thoughts During A Fall On Gear? [In reply to]
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oldsalt wrote:
This weekend, I was about halfway up a T-Wall 5.easy trad lead when I got to experience my first such fall. My last piece was a medium nut slotted into a nice notch.

I was about 6 feet above and 6 feet to the right of two nuts placed in opposition. I hadn't like the way that the large hex was sitting, so I backed it up.

I did not double the medium nut. About 4 or 5 feet higher, my right foot slipped and I started to accelerate downward at 9.8 m/sec squared, minus much friction on my back, ankle, and elbow.

I slid far enough to realize that one or more pieces had blown. Now, the point of the post...

What thoughts have you had while "in transit?"

Mine were:

1. That last nut failed.
2. Will they all fail?
3. Will it hurt when I deck?

(Donna, you made a great catch! Don't second guess yourself.)

OK- Not so much on the thoughts Iíve had while whipping- but a few examples of what to avoid-
Iíll confess- climbing trad Iíve ripped gear in a fall- and on more than one occasion. The worst time I zippered three pieces from the bottom leaving two for the catch- yikes! Iíve also had the rope lift marginal gear out from below the topmost pieces which is distinctly disconcerting when you look down and see it sliding down the rope. Iíve also had the topmost (marginal) piece fail in a fall. Iíve also had a belayer standing back way too far from the climbís base get pulled forward for a tumble when I fell, resulting in a pretty long whipper- he got banged up on that piece of idiocy. Iíve also (more than once) been the recipient of a hard catch on an overhang, and got banged up. Iíve also actually gotten injured falling with a lot of rope out on what seems like should have been a safe fall, but what with the winding route vector, rope stretch, and some belayer inattentiveness went for a bit longer ride than I should have, over a roof and hit the slab below- flipping my right foot upside down. Iíve also taken falls on all kinds of hardware, from small nuts and tcus to ľĒ rusty buttonheads. Iíve also run out and or free soloed some scary and dangerous shit, successfully yet barely; with no bad consequences to report so far- some great trad routes have mandatory runouts.
Not all of this happened because I am a total dumbshit, but rather is a consequence of putting in a lot of mileage attempting hard-for-me stuff.
Nowadays, after sussing out the bottom of a route, and when concerned, I give my partner exact instructions on where to stand through my initial gear placements. I protect ever more opportunistically, set nuts with more conviction, extend runners, and generally am mindful to engineer the best system of protection I can interspersed with dealing with the demands of the climbing and making good forward progress.
Iíve also taken hundreds of whips on sport, some not so pretty. Even working a new project that has ridiculously hard climbing bolt to bolt it can take some guts to man up and get going, knowing that if you fail to make it through that cruxiness there will be a pretty jarring fall in store.


andersjr


Sep 17, 2009, 12:36 PM
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did i leave the toaster oven on?


tedtradman


Sep 17, 2009, 1:15 PM
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Re: [Bag11s] Thoughts During A Fall On Gear? [In reply to]
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quite possibly the most entertaining thread of posts i have ever read. I hate when the piece pulls out after you carefully selected it and nestled it in nicely. Its worse when you finally place something after a long run out and it pulls out.

When I fall, my thoughts are always, shiiiit and then "wow, that was not so bad." Haha. The feeling I don't like is when you hanging on a piece and it starts walking.




Smoke em' if you got em!


suprasoup


Sep 17, 2009, 1:46 PM
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Re: [petsfed] Thoughts During A Fall On Gear? [In reply to]
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petsfed wrote:
bennydh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
bennydh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
bennydh wrote:
Although, I guess those 3 foot run outs between shiny bolts help ensure that you will enjoy retirement.

Thanks for proving once again that if you have to exaggerate to make a point, then you don't actually have one.

Jay

I thought it would drive the point into your thick skull. I'm sorry you misunderstood.

I understand perfectly. You cope with the fact you can't climb as hard as you like by denigrating sport climbingóand you actually think that's original.

Jay

You are an idiot. Try not to project your insecurities on me. I climb pretty hard, and I keep getting stronger. I'm not denigrating sport climbing as a means to cope for any lack of talent either.

Quit trying to be a mind reader like you quit trad climbing. You obviously have no idea what I think, and your projections aren't reality.

Just because you phrase something with authority, it doesn't mean its true; nor does it mean you understand it at all. You just end up sounding like a jackass.

No, sir you are an idiot. Stormeh started with the polite ribbing (which is actually a little ridiculous when you actually know Jay's personal climbing history, but that's a side issue) and then a few others, like you, elected to pursue the point.

Now fuck off, you elitist twat. The only people I ever hear slagging on sport climbing are either pros who got their panties in a bunch that the undeclared project they planned on headpointing got bolted, and people who haven't climbed enough to know that its all climbing.

I'm sorry you're so insecure that you feel the need to highlight your imagined superiority.

/climbs almost exclusively trad
//ashamed to call himself a "trad" climber because of the excess of asshats like you

Very very true.


rockandlice


Sep 18, 2009, 7:02 AM
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Re: [dingus] Thoughts During A Fall On Gear? [In reply to]
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dingus wrote:
Anyone who pretends that pulling perfectly placed trad gear isn't a distinct and even likely possibility SHOULD stick to bolts.

Just about one of the ony comments that is %100 true in this thread.


IsayAutumn


Sep 18, 2009, 7:25 AM
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Re: [rockandlice] Thoughts During A Fall On Gear? [In reply to]
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rockandlice wrote:
dingus wrote:
Anyone who pretends that pulling perfectly placed trad gear isn't a distinct and even likely possibility SHOULD stick to bolts.

Just about one of the ony comments that is %100 true in this thread.

This is a truly tired debate. How people keep ending up arguing it is beyond me. It seems to start off innocently enough, with a dig here and a witty comeback there, but then somebody feels like he got disrespected, and all of the sudden sport climbers are pussies.

It looks like there are roughly 400 other threads on this site about how trad climbers are elitist cunts and how sport climbing is for expecting mothers. Why anyone feels the need to denigrate another expression of the same sport is hard to fathom. It's also hard to fathom why anyone would feel the need to crudely defend their chosen expression from the ignorant insults on an interwebz wank board. Juvenile stuff. End of rant!

Also of note, trad climbers have small penises.

(To the OP: nothing runs through my head during the fall. Right before the fall I usually think to myself, well, I've done the best I can to protect the climb, so I might as well relax. I then find I'm able to accept my fate.)


dingus


Sep 18, 2009, 7:29 AM
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Re: [IsayAutumn] Thoughts During A Fall On Gear? [In reply to]
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Its just the Dozens, brother. Another version of 'yer momma.'

You don't have to play but you're not going to stop them/us from doing it either.


Taint no thing.

Cheers!
DMT


sungam


Sep 18, 2009, 8:05 AM
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Re: [IsayAutumn] Thoughts During A Fall On Gear? [In reply to]
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IsayAutumn wrote:
rockandlice wrote:
dingus wrote:
Anyone who pretends that pulling perfectly placed trad gear isn't a distinct and even likely possibility SHOULD stick to bolts.

Just about one of the ony comments that is %100 true in this thread.

This is a truly tired debate. How people keep ending up arguing it is beyond me. It seems to start off innocently enough, with a dig here and a witty comeback there, but then somebody feels like he got disrespected, and all of the sudden sport climbers are pussies.

It looks like there are roughly 400 other threads on this site about how trad climbers are elitist cunts and how sport climbing is for expecting mothers.
Reading comprehension FAIL.
Reread it, and see if you can actually catch what dingus and rocknlice are saying.


IsayAutumn


Sep 18, 2009, 8:11 AM
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sungam wrote:
Reading comprehension FAIL.
Reread it, and see if you can actually catch what dingus and rocknlice are saying.

Sorry, I wasn't commenting on what those two were saying. The FAIL was me replying to rockandice instead of jt512 and bennydh, or whoever else was stirring up a shit storm.

And hey...I read at a 4th grade level, buddy. More than enough to float to the top in this pond.


sungam


Sep 18, 2009, 8:22 AM
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Re: [IsayAutumn] Thoughts During A Fall On Gear? [In reply to]
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IsayAutumn wrote:
sungam wrote:
Reading comprehension FAIL.
Reread it, and see if you can actually catch what dingus and rocknlice are saying.

Sorry, I wasn't commenting on what those two were saying. The FAIL was me replying to rockandice instead of jt512 and bennydh, or whoever else was stirring up a shit storm.

And hey...I read at a 4th grade level, buddy. More than enough to float to the top in this pond.
Next time try note to quote the people you're not talking to...


IsayAutumn


Sep 18, 2009, 8:24 AM
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sungam wrote:
IsayAutumn wrote:
sungam wrote:
Reading comprehension FAIL.
Reread it, and see if you can actually catch what dingus and rocknlice are saying.

Sorry, I wasn't commenting on what those two were saying. The FAIL was me replying to rockandice instead of jt512 and bennydh, or whoever else was stirring up a shit storm.

And hey...I read at a 4th grade level, buddy. More than enough to float to the top in this pond.
Next time try note to quote the people you're not talking to...

Huh? What? Huh? STFU


(This post was edited by IsayAutumn on Sep 18, 2009, 8:27 AM)


LostinMaine


Sep 18, 2009, 12:30 PM
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Re: [oldsalt] Thoughts During A Fall On Gear? [In reply to]
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I fell recently on a mega classic 5.6 line at the gunks... my foot slipped on something suspicious. The only thought I had as I was swinging under the roof was "who shit on the GT ledge." It must have been a serious accident...


peon


Sep 18, 2009, 1:04 PM
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IsayAutumn wrote:
sungam wrote:
IsayAutumn wrote:
sungam wrote:
Reading comprehension FAIL.
Reread it, and see if you can actually catch what dingus and rocknlice are saying.

Sorry, I wasn't commenting on what those two were saying. The FAIL was me replying to rockandice instead of jt512 and bennydh, or whoever else was stirring up a shit storm.

And hey...I read at a 4th grade level, buddy. More than enough to float to the top in this pond.
Next time try note to quote the people you're not talking to...

Huh? What? Huh? STFU


A little touchy today? I wonder who pissed in our Cheerios this morning. Tongue


sungam


Sep 18, 2009, 1:31 PM
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IsayAutumn wrote:
sungam wrote:
IsayAutumn wrote:
sungam wrote:
Reading comprehension FAIL.
Reread it, and see if you can actually catch what dingus and rocknlice are saying.

Sorry, I wasn't commenting on what those two were saying. The FAIL was me replying to rockandice instead of jt512 and bennydh, or whoever else was stirring up a shit storm.

And hey...I read at a 4th grade level, buddy. More than enough to float to the top in this pond.
Next time try note to quote the people you're not talking to...

Huh? What? Huh? STFU
Yes, sorry. I didn't mean "note" as in "I'll leave you a note", I meant "not" as in "you're not funny, cool, or clever."


bandycoot


Sep 18, 2009, 3:06 PM
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Re: [oldsalt] Thoughts During A Fall On Gear? [In reply to]
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I've had quite a few scary falls on gear. A few of them have pulled gear. Once in Arapiles, I had built a super bomber belay off a single large nut to start a route that you walk into from the side in the middle of a short cliff. I plugged a perfect #3 metolius in a parallel crack from the ground. On my 2nd attempt on the line, I pulled and the cam didn't even really slow me down. Quite scary. Once I felt that thing pop, it was more visceral than a conscious thought, but I thought I was done. Luckily, my belayer caught the near factor 2 fall since she had wrapped the line around her hand and the single nut belay held. Kinda sucks when you're falling through the air and think you're going to shatter on the ground 30-40' below... Pretty awesome when you don't.

Another time, I pulled a #2 Metolius and a piton in a 35' fall on Romantic Warrior's first 5.12a pitch. That was exciting. Didn't know the fall was coming, and when I just kept falling and falling it was pretty freaky. I knew the cam was shit, but the piton had held my friend somewhat recently on the same fall. I guess I was fatter. I remember realizing the gear was failing, but not being too concerned because the fall was clean. A 2nd piton held.

I once fell unexpectedly trying to climb a bigwall in Malaysia. I had a 0.5 camalot in far below because the bolt was rusted that protected the crux. I pulled the crux roof of the pitch, and went to lean back and flick the rope out from under the roof. I was holding a large block that looked attached to the wall but it wasn't apparently. I remember having this sinking feeling in my stomach all of a sudden and my "spidey sense" told me something was wrong. My hand was still on the block, but I was moving. There was a thought of "Oh FUCK this is gonna be a big one!" I just relaxed and the rope caught me about 40' below and I swung into a tree demolishing some almost wrist sized branches. The really sickening feeling came when I realized all that stuff from branches to rocks were slamming down around my GF belaying below. I pulled myself back up the rope and the camalot had slid about 8" out of the crack and was holding me with two lobes. It was almost a REALLY REALLY big fall... Smile

Biggest fall and the most potentially traumatic was actually sport climbing. No gear pull, but blowing a clip plus a belayer error resulted in a 70' head first whistler. I remember there was a ledge about 50' below where I fell. My first thought was "Oh this is gonna suck!" Next thought, "Why haven't I stopped yet." I passed the ledge 50' below and realized it and thought, "Belay failed, I'm dead..." Suddenly I was hanging completely inverted. I grabbed the rope, flipped myself happy as hell on the inside to be alive, turned to my belayer and said calmly, "That is NEVER going to happen again, right?" Half the people at the crag went home immediately after, traumatized. I remember one guy saying, "I've never heard the sound of a human body flying through the air again." I finished the route, refusing to let it get to me. Repeating that clip was one of the scariest things I've ever done climbing, but I finished and lowered...

Jung, your post is awesome. What you think about before you fall is way important...

Josh


sungam


Sep 18, 2009, 3:16 PM
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bandycoot wrote:
I once fell unexpectedly trying to climb a bigwall in Malaysia. I had a 0.5 camalot in far below because the bolt was rusted that protected the crux. I pulled the crux roof of the pitch, and went to lean back and flick the rope out from under the roof. I was holding a large block that looked attached to the wall but it wasn't apparently. I remember having this sinking feeling in my stomach all of a sudden and my "spidey sense" told me something was wrong. My hand was still on the block, but I was moving. There was a thought of "Oh FUCK this is gonna be a big one!" I just relaxed and the rope caught me about 40' below and I swung into a tree demolishing some almost wrist sized branches. The really sickening feeling came when I realized all that stuff from branches to rocks were slamming down around my GF belaying below. I pulled myself back up the rope and the camalot had slid about 8" out of the crack and was holding me with two lobes. It was almost a REALLY REALLY big fall... Smile

Biggest fall and the most potentially traumatic was actually sport climbing. No gear pull, but blowing a clip plus a belayer error resulted in a 70' head first whistler. I remember there was a ledge about 50' below where I fell. My first thought was "Oh this is gonna suck!" Next thought, "Why haven't I stopped yet." I passed the ledge 50' below and realized it and thought, "Belay failed, I'm dead..." Suddenly I was hanging completely inverted. I grabbed the rope, flipped myself happy as hell on the inside to be alive, turned to my belayer and said calmly, "That is NEVER going to happen again, right?" Half the people at the crag went home immediately after, traumatized. I remember one guy saying, "I've never heard the sound of a human body flying through the air again." I finished the route, refusing to let it get to me. Repeating that clip was one of the scariest things I've ever done climbing, but I finished and lowered...
*gulp*
Sometimes it's worth being the one with the shitty uninteresting stories...


bandycoot


Sep 18, 2009, 3:27 PM
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sungam wrote:
*gulp*
Sometimes it's worth being the one with the shitty uninteresting stories...

My friend taught me to ask the question, "What would be the more adventurous option?" I'll always prefer to have the more interesting story.


suprasoup


Sep 18, 2009, 3:50 PM
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bandycoot wrote:
sungam wrote:
*gulp*
Sometimes it's worth being the one with the shitty uninteresting stories...

My friend taught me to ask the question, "What would be the more adventurous option?" I'll always prefer to have the more interesting story.

The next time I get my ass kicked by a cougar I'll remember what you saidCrazy






wonderwoman


Sep 18, 2009, 7:11 PM
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Holy crap! That's scarier than any whipper!


sungam


Sep 19, 2009, 1:28 AM
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bandycoot wrote:
sungam wrote:
*gulp*
Sometimes it's worth being the one with the shitty uninteresting stories...

My friend taught me to ask the question, "What would be the more adventurous option?" I'll always prefer to have the more interesting story.
Yeah, I generally go for the more adventurous option, but I've certainly never taken any 70' nosedives - and I was just saying that I'm fine with not having that story.
Malaysian bigwall sounds like a blast, though. Was that perhaps the Tioman horns? I spent a week snorkeling around there with my school thinking about climbing that thing.


sungam


Sep 19, 2009, 1:37 AM
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Did you fight it off or did it just rough you up and leave?


bandycoot


Sep 19, 2009, 6:47 AM
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Damn, I'm impressed! It was, in fact, the Dragon's Horns on Tioman Island. I tried to climb it back in mid 2008. My buddy Scotty, actually the SAME GUY who taught me to ask, "What would be the more adventurous option," is the first ascentionist. Anyways, I went down there to climb it and it turns out that a mixture of factors played into a lack of safety. The bolts weren't stainless, the proximity to the ocean had its effect, and in sections something was seeping out of the rock that bolts on a few years old had hangers partially dissolved. Since higher up the route there were sections that were aided on the FA and were only bolt protected, gear apparently liked to slide in the cracks due to the crap seeping out of the rock, and the only medium rock quality, I decided to call it day. I finished the pitch and rapped the route from about 3-4 pitches up. Someone really should head back up there with the same titanium glue-ins found in Thailand. I'm sure it'll be an amazing route once that has happened.

Josh


brianinslc


Sep 19, 2009, 8:31 AM
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dingus wrote:
Pro pulls and that is a fact.

Especially if you range beyond paint by numbers type stuff...

I've had a few memorable "thoughts" whilst in mid flight.

Was doing a fairly runout steep slab corner climb in the west desert of Utah. Way up there, had a bolt clipped (only one on the route) and the book I was in was opening up, and, pro was sketchy at best. I placed a rattly #6 HB as "pyche" pro, but, knew it was poor but also knew there was no reason not to place it as saving it for higher up wasn't really needed. I could see this really good shallow ledge, and, I knew if I got to it, I'd be money. Right below it, I popped off, no warning. I guess the thought, more of a feeling maybe, was initially curiosity to see if that rattly HB was going to hold. As it came bubblin' by, it didn't, and I went for the 50 footer onto the bolt (only thing between me and the ground). Got hurt, ER, surgery, yada yada...

Took another real long fall on thin aid, trying to do a thin crack "clean" and when I popped off, I knew I was going to blow pieces. Which, is the only thing I kinda thought when I fell. I blew the skin off my knuckle going past one of them homemade aluminum bolt hangers. The bolt pulled but the next one down caught me, only a few feet from the ground. Didn't really have any thoughts about that at the time, but, the next day I really thought back hard on it.

Was up high in Zion, on a FA. Rock was crappy (duh) and I'd placed a bolt that didn't really set, but, was on thin terrain and it was better'n nothing. So, I just climbed past it, going for a shallow corner crack where I hoped I'd get fairly good gear. After a few feet, placed an "ok" TCU and made a couple moves up the shalllow corner. Rock was soft and I didn't realize I'd picked up some grit/dirt on the bottom of my shoe. I leaned over to a fairly good foothold on a lower angle slab, and, I immediately popped off. Low angle enough that I had time to think about that TCU and the crappy bolt below it. Not deep thoughts, just, uhh, come on, hold. Darn thing rode the crack down for about a foot and a half and held. I frickin' couldn't believe it. Dusted my foot off and sent the rest of the pitch, and, we climbed another 9 more that day, on super sketchy terrain.

Took a hard daisy chain fall onto a piece that I thought would pop for sure, but, didn't. At the time, all I thought was, "oh feck" (I'd back cleaned forever). Happiness ensued.

I hate falling. I'm probably more "thoughtful" when it comes to that commitment of moving up or bailing at a crappy placement. No longer bulletproof I suppose. It's kinda the essence of that kind of climbing, though, pulling it off, or, bumming 'cause I didn't climb up and through (but glad to be in one piece).

Yeah, weird game we play, all this risk for some reward.

-Brian in SLC


sungam


Sep 19, 2009, 8:57 AM
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Re: [bandycoot] Thoughts During A Fall On Gear? [In reply to]
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bandycoot wrote:
Damn, I'm impressed! It was, in fact, the Dragon's Horns on Tioman Island. I tried to climb it back in mid 2008. My buddy Scotty, actually the SAME GUY who taught me to ask, "What would be the more adventurous option," is the first ascentionist. Anyways, I went down there to climb it and it turns out that a mixture of factors played into a lack of safety. The bolts weren't stainless, the proximity to the ocean had its effect, and in sections something was seeping out of the rock that bolts on a few years old had hangers partially dissolved. Since higher up the route there were sections that were aided on the FA and were only bolt protected, gear apparently liked to slide in the cracks due to the crap seeping out of the rock, and the only medium rock quality, I decided to call it day. I finished the pitch and rapped the route from about 3-4 pitches up. Someone really should head back up there with the same titanium glue-ins found in Thailand. I'm sure it'll be an amazing route once that has happened.

Josh
If I find myself with some spare money... the ex-airforce base in singapore does run very cheap flights...
I'm lead to believe that the horns on Tioman are likely the only wall worthy of the name bigwall in Malaysia. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Looks SWWEEEETTTT though.

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