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dbogardus
Sep 25, 2009, 4:14 PM
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I've been climbing for about 5 months now and its an awesome new hobby which I dont plan on quitting. I've climbed mostly in the gym just to get started and I'm starting to move to more outdoors stuff. This transition is my problem. I'm looking for some advise or to be pointed in the right direction as far as setting up anchors go. I've just started sport climbing so I'd like info on both top roping and sport. Not sure if the info would be interchangeable or not. Anyway, thanks for any help, you may save my life.
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dolphja
Sep 25, 2009, 4:23 PM
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my best advice to you is to buy some books, "how to climb", "climbing anchors", and get outside with some people who know what they are doing. you don't want to do the whole "trial & error" thing with your anchors. do it exactly right, every time!
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TarHeelEMT
Sep 25, 2009, 5:41 PM
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http://www.amazon.com/...0JREJ2FZDTHH1TNXK8JR Read it, study it, practice it, then read it again. Also, I would strongly recommend finding someone more experienced to show you the basics of actually doing it. It's actually not that hard to find someone willing to help.
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jt512
Sep 25, 2009, 5:43 PM
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dbogardus wrote: I've been climbing for about 5 months now and its an awesome new hobby which I dont plan on quitting. I've climbed mostly in the gym just to get started and I'm starting to move to more outdoors stuff. This transition is my problem. I'm looking for some advise or to be pointed in the right direction as far as setting up anchors go. I've just started sport climbing so I'd like info on both top roping and sport. Not sure if the info would be interchangeable or not. Anyway, thanks for any help, you may save my life. How long have you been using the internet for? Ever hear of doing a search? Jay
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canterbury
Sep 25, 2009, 6:10 PM
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jt512 wrote: Ever hear of doing a search? Jay but searches, researching, and reading books take time guys. can't you see he'd rather just have you all unload your plethora of climbing knowledge into his thread?
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CrazyPetie
Sep 25, 2009, 8:07 PM
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You really should get more climbing experiance before you start bolting, especially if you plan on doing more then just putting up top anchors. Since you say you haven't climbed outside that much, you probably don't know the other bolters in your area. That being said, bolting isn't that difficult, just do your research and make SURE its ok to be putting the anchors where you want them to go. I know first hand that people are crazy about their "local ethics", even when its a shit hole in the middle of nowhere.
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chopperjohn
Sep 26, 2009, 12:42 AM
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CrazyPetie wrote: You really should get more climbing experiance before you start bolting, especially if you plan on doing more then just putting up top anchors. Since you say you haven't climbed outside that much, you probably don't know the other bolters in your area. That being said, bolting isn't that difficult, just do your research and make SURE its ok to be putting the anchors where you want them to go. I know first hand that people are crazy about their "local ethics", even when its a shit hole in the middle of nowhere. who's Bolting?
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cilohabmilc
Sep 26, 2009, 1:37 AM
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First, do what everyone else it telling you... get the books and climb with an experienced friend... but since that isn't what you asked, i'll try to point you in the right direction. Buy yourself a few shoulder length runners and learn the sliding X for where there are bolted top anchors. Also, for where you will be setting up top ropes off of trees/boulders buy a bunch of 1" tubular webbing and learn the water knot (i keep two 50ft pieces for when those trees are a loooong way back from the edge). This also can double for setting up a slack line on rest days. Static line also works for setting off trees and boulders. Make sure you equalize and back up everything when top roping. Using lockers isn't a bad idea when top roping, but opposed non-lockers also works. Better yet, scrap everything I said and find someone to teach you... Good luck
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Rudmin
Sep 26, 2009, 1:03 PM
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Keep your slacklining webbing separate from your anchor webbing. Slacklining can regularly generate forces up in the 7 or 8 KN range and all the bouncing puts a lot of wear on your webbing. I have stretched and frayed and torn slacklining webbing lots of times..
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dorienc
Sep 26, 2009, 1:46 PM
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Contact a gym or a good outdoors shop and find an experienced teacher. You will learn more in a few real lessons from someone who is there to teach you, than you will by reading every book in the world, or following around someone who is primarily there to climb, not to teach you. Not to mention the casual lessons often pass on bum dope. A couple of books that are pretty much mandatory for the beginner are John Long's How to Rock Climb, and Climbing Anchors.
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Bats
Sep 26, 2009, 2:12 PM
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Sometimes if you don't know anybody with climbing experiences, go get a guide. They will cost more than a case of beer, but they do this sort of thing for a living with beginners or those who are interested. I have many experienced friends so it only cost me a case of beer for lessons. AMGA has listing of guides by locations of favorite crags. I don't know about PCIA guides that much.
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chopperjohn
Sep 26, 2009, 4:49 PM
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Go out to your crag build a really shitty anchor (build in a high traffic route) and wait till someone comes to critique it, You will always find someone that wants to help out just so they can show off their skills (especially if they see a shitty anchor) once you got them hooked then pick there brain.
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healyje
Sep 26, 2009, 5:59 PM
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One note: the 'hobby' mentality may be something you want to rethink. A model train coming off the track won't kill or maim you whereas a lot of mistakes in climbing will. Despite its typical presentation in gyms, mags, and movies climbing isn't a matter of entertaining avocation, but rather a deadly serious pursuit. It's also a delicate dance of stretching your limits without getting too far ahead of yourself. Asking people on the Internet to save your life is probably a sign of the latter. Slow down, climb with more experienced partners, learn more, and take it one step at a time.
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jt512
Sep 26, 2009, 11:14 PM
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CrazyPetie wrote: You really should get more climbing experiance before you start bolting... Bolting? You should really get more climbing experience, so that you know what it means to put up top rope anchors. Jay
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marc801
Sep 26, 2009, 11:48 PM
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healyje wrote: One note: the 'hobby' mentality may be something you want to rethink. A model train coming off the track won't kill or maim you whereas a lot of mistakes in climbing will. Despite its typical presentation in gyms, mags, and movies climbing isn't a matter of entertaining avocation, but rather a deadly serious pursuit. It's also a delicate dance of stretching your limits without getting too far ahead of yourself. Asking people on the Internet to save your life is probably a sign of the latter. Slow down, climb with more experienced partners, learn more, and take it one step at a time. How dare you post a reasonable, rational answer.
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cilohabmilc
Sep 27, 2009, 7:19 PM
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Rudmin wrote: Keep your slacklining webbing separate from your anchor webbing. Slacklining can regularly generate forces up in the 7 or 8 KN range and all the bouncing puts a lot of wear on your webbing. I have stretched and frayed and torn slacklining webbing lots of times.. I've always used my webbing for both. The specs for my webbing are: Specification Weight per foot 11.75 grams Strength 17.8 kilonewtons Climbing gear is routinely tested to half of its breaking strength at the factory before it is shipped. So i don't feel bad putting 7 or 8kn on it. Which by the way, how did you get that figure? I'm not a scientist and would be interested to see the math. I also inspect my webbing regularly for fraying/wear and since webbing doesn't have a core like climbing rope I'm not worried about internal damage that is not visible. I'm not faulting you for being extra careful, but i personally don't think it's necessary. I'm open to any criticism, Mark
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Rudmin
Sep 27, 2009, 8:37 PM
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cilohabmilc wrote: Rudmin wrote: Keep your slacklining webbing separate from your anchor webbing. Slacklining can regularly generate forces up in the 7 or 8 KN range and all the bouncing puts a lot of wear on your webbing. I have stretched and frayed and torn slacklining webbing lots of times.. I've always used my webbing for both. The specs for my webbing are: Specification Weight per foot 11.75 grams Strength 17.8 kilonewtons Climbing gear is routinely tested to half of its breaking strength at the factory before it is shipped. So i don't feel bad putting 7 or 8kn on it. Which by the way, how did you get that figure? I'm not a scientist and would be interested to see the math. I also inspect my webbing regularly for fraying/wear and since webbing doesn't have a core like climbing rope I'm not worried about internal damage that is not visible. I'm not faulting you for being extra careful, but i personally don't think it's necessary. I'm open to any criticism, Mark I roughed that up frtom some quick visual math. Of course this will all depend on the tension and length of your line. I am abou 70 kg. So that is 0.7 KN. If I bounce on a line, I can make it at least double the depression that I get when I stand still. Assuming a linear spring, that means I can bounce a bit more than double the force of my static weight, lets say 2 KN. If I take a look at the line from the side. When I am in the middle you can see the ratio of forces: Imagine a virtual horizontal line stretching from the tree to you. Add a vertical line wherever you are standing, and let the webbing be the hypotenuse of that triangle. The force you are exerting as weight and momentum is that vertical line. So I guessed 2 KN. The force on the webbing will be proportional to that 2 KN by the ratio of the length of the hypotenuse when you bounce to the length of the virtual vertical line. In my lines that ratio is at least 4:1. So 4 times 2 KN is 8 KN and that isn't even a conservative estimate.
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olderic
Sep 27, 2009, 10:57 PM
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canterbury wrote: jt512 wrote: Ever hear of doing a search? Jay but searches, researching, and reading books take time guys. can't you see he'd rather just have you all unload your plethora of climbing knowledge into his thread? What do you think he just did?
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climbncookie
Sep 28, 2009, 3:48 AM
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Rudmin wrote: cilohabmilc wrote: Rudmin wrote: Keep your slacklining webbing separate from your anchor webbing. Slacklining can regularly generate forces up in the 7 or 8 KN range and all the bouncing puts a lot of wear on your webbing. I have stretched and frayed and torn slacklining webbing lots of times.. I've always used my webbing for both. The specs for my webbing are: Specification Weight per foot 11.75 grams Strength 17.8 kilonewtons Climbing gear is routinely tested to half of its breaking strength at the factory before it is shipped. So i don't feel bad putting 7 or 8kn on it. Which by the way, how did you get that figure? I'm not a scientist and would be interested to see the math. I also inspect my webbing regularly for fraying/wear and since webbing doesn't have a core like climbing rope I'm not worried about internal damage that is not visible. I'm not faulting you for being extra careful, but i personally don't think it's necessary. I'm open to any criticism, Mark I roughed that up frtom some quick visual math. Of course this will all depend on the tension and length of your line. I am abou 70 kg. So that is 0.7 KN. If I bounce on a line, I can make it at least double the depression that I get when I stand still. Assuming a linear spring, that means I can bounce a bit more than double the force of my static weight, lets say 2 KN. If I take a look at the line from the side. When I am in the middle you can see the ratio of forces: Imagine a virtual horizontal line stretching from the tree to you. Add a vertical line wherever you are standing, and let the webbing be the hypotenuse of that triangle. The force you are exerting as weight and momentum is that vertical line. So I guessed 2 KN. The force on the webbing will be proportional to that 2 KN by the ratio of the length of the hypotenuse when you bounce to the length of the virtual vertical line. In my lines that ratio is at least 4:1. So 4 times 2 KN is 8 KN and that isn't even a conservative estimate. I'm sorry to say but that is only a 0.7 KN force downwards. The actual TENSION in the webbing assuming a 10 degree dip is 4KN of tension. Now if somehow you did manage to bounce to 2KN, which would be like pulling 2 g's in a jet, that would put 11.5 KN of tension in the webbing. sin(5deg)=0.7KN/T where T is the tension in the rope.
(This post was edited by climbncookie on Sep 28, 2009, 3:59 AM)
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dbogardus
Sep 28, 2009, 4:14 AM
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healyje wrote: One note: the 'hobby' mentality may be something you want to rethink. A model train coming off the track won't kill or maim you whereas a lot of mistakes in climbing will. Despite its typical presentation in gyms, mags, and movies climbing isn't a matter of entertaining avocation, but rather a deadly serious pursuit. It's also a delicate dance of stretching your limits without getting too far ahead of yourself. Asking people on the Internet to save your life is probably a sign of the latter. Slow down, climb with more experienced partners, learn more, and take it one step at a time. The meaning of a hobby is something someone does with their spare time. Im expecting to fully train and dedicate myself to climbing but Im fairly certain it will never be something Ill be paid to do. I apologize if the way I used the word confused you, but I assure you Im taking this sport seriously. Thanks for any positives contributions.
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canterbury
Sep 28, 2009, 6:43 AM
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olderic wrote: canterbury wrote: jt512 wrote: Ever hear of doing a search? Jay but searches, researching, and reading books take time guys. can't you see he'd rather just have you all unload your plethora of climbing knowledge into his thread? What do you think he just did? i'm guessing my sarcasm wasn't obvious enough for you?
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blueeyedclimber
Sep 28, 2009, 1:06 PM
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canterbury wrote: olderic wrote: canterbury wrote: jt512 wrote: Ever hear of doing a search? Jay but searches, researching, and reading books take time guys. can't you see he'd rather just have you all unload your plethora of climbing knowledge into his thread? What do you think he just did? i'm guessing my sarcasm wasn't obvious enough for you? And I guess Eric's wasn't either. You see, Eric's was even better, because he had some nice sarcasm AND took a shot at Jay
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jeepnphreak
Sep 28, 2009, 4:02 PM
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dbogardus wrote: I've been climbing for about 5 months now and its an awesome new hobby which I dont plan on quitting. I've climbed mostly in the gym just to get started and I'm starting to move to more outdoors stuff. This transition is my problem. I'm looking for some advise or to be pointed in the right direction as far as setting up anchors go. I've just started sport climbing so I'd like info on both top roping and sport. Not sure if the info would be interchangeable or not. Anyway, thanks for any help, you may save my life. OK books on proper safty and anchors are great. chat forums, use the information very cautiously. Take that knowlege and practice on the ground. figure out what you need to do before you go verticle. I like to use our tree in the back yard setup a full rope and anchors just as if I was verticle, next find someone experienced to take you out and show you what anchor types are in your area, you may find cold shuts, chains, anchor style bolt hangers, rap rings, or trees and boulders. They can tell you how to use each of these. once they have lead the route, set up the anchor, study what they have done. personal experience is very important.
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xaniel2000
Sep 29, 2009, 2:47 PM
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chopperjohn wrote: Go out to your crag build a really shitty anchor (build in a high traffic route) and wait till someone comes to critique it, You will always find someone that wants to help out just so they can show off their skills (especially if they see a shitty anchor) once you got them hooked then pick there brain. This is funny, and I know at least 1 crag where it'd work too!
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notchrisp
Oct 9, 2009, 1:30 PM
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man what a freaking noob. I can't believe you think of climbing as a hobbie. GET SERIOUS OR GET OUT. You probable don't even take your shirt off when you climb.
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