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granite_grrl
Sep 28, 2009, 2:22 PM
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camhead wrote: Well, if I saw that happen, I would just climb up to the panicking person, tie him/her into my harness, and then cut their rope! It worked at the Gunks.  Seriously, the idea of letting the panicking follower rest on the rope, to gain confidence in the system before doing the moves, is probably a very good idea. The trouble, obviously, with multipitch as opposed to off-the-ground toproping is that there is usually much less communication between climbers, and if the follower weights the rope, often long swings or stretches happen, putting them off the route. I had a similar situation happen a couple years ago, though panic wasn't really involved. I was belaying my follower up a Moab-area tower that had a pretty wide section right off the belay at pitch 2. I was 140 feet up, and set back in an alcove for the belay, and there were high winds and traffic noise, so there was communication between us. My partner fell a couple times, and given the length of rope that was out, she was probably falling 15 feet every time she blew the OW moves. All I knew at the time was that the rope was not moving, and I just kept locking off inch by inch (fortunately had a gri gri) for well over an hour. Finally, from my end, it appeared that she had gotten the move and was climbing quickly up the rest of the pitch, since the rope started moving freely. Imagine my surprise as I pulled in an untied end of the rope! Turns out that my partner, in frustration, had made herself a three piece anchor and just untied, since that seemed the only option given the lack of communication. I suppose that she could have used the same gear to just aid past the tough spot, but she obviously was not psyched on the climb by that point. I wound up having to make a single rope rap down to bail, and had to aid solo back up the next day to get my rope and gear. ugh. 
Years ago Nathan and I were out at the Gunks and I was following him up Fat City. The crux was burley, and I was a much much weaker (physically) climber than I am not. By the time I figured out how to pull the crux I was toast, I didn't have the energy to actually get through it. Not long after I felt myself getting pulled up, Nathan had setup a 2 to 1 to get me past it.
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the_leech
Sep 28, 2009, 3:41 PM
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dingus wrote: Yes she was hot. DMT
Ok then.
Now the story makes sense. The source of your tears and upwelling of emotion is clear.
An old climber, well past his prime, watches a hot nubile thing being strung along by some incompetent and uncaring jackass. The jackass, as inept as he may be, has the benefit of youth and good looks that our intrepid Dingus lacks.
Dingus speaks to her softly, thinking back to a younger self when this would have gone very differently. A time when he would have thrown her a rope, she would gladly have accepted it, and they would have climbed away together into a happy tomorrow.
But he is not that younger self. He is the old, weathered, weakened Dingus. He consoles himself with the fact that he is still looks younger than Curt (but eventually has to admit that he lacks Curt’s strength and good taste in malted beverages).
Tears fall as he watches her climb up into the void, never to be seen by him again.
At least he has the memory… Ah, the memory…
And that memory will serve him well for many lonely nights with his tissue box.
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cracklover
Sep 28, 2009, 4:26 PM
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Interesting story, Dingus! Of course what you did was fine. But really, I'm most interested in hearing the postlude: what did your daughter make of all of this? I bet it's a side of climbing that she probably has never had to deal with before as an observer. Especially interesting as it was her first multipitch, so it would be easy for her to both appreciate and/or abhor the feelings of the poor panicked person she shared the rock with.
GO
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dingus
Sep 28, 2009, 4:28 PM
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the_leech wrote: dingus wrote: Yes she was hot. DMT Ok then. Now the story makes sense. The source of your tears and upwelling of emotion is clear. An old climber, well past his prime, watches a hot nubile thing being strung along by some incompetent and uncaring jackass. The jackass, as inept as he may be, has the benefit of youth and good looks that our intrepid Dingus lacks. Dingus speaks to her softly, thinking back to a younger self when this would have gone very differently. A time when he would have thrown her a rope, she would gladly have accepted it, and they would have climbed away together into a happy tomorrow. But he is not that younger self. He is the old, weathered, weakened Dingus. He consoles himself with the fact that he is still looks younger than Curt (but eventually has to admit that he lacks Curt’s strength and good taste in malted beverages). Tears fall as he watches her climb up into the void, never to be seen by him again. At least he has the memory… Ah, the memory… And that memory will serve him well for many lonely nights with his tissue box.
One small correction - the dude was competent. Way competent. That was part of the problem really.
DMT
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858jason
Sep 28, 2009, 6:21 PM
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smallclimber wrote: While there is no reason for the genders not to be reversed you just don't see it so often (or even never??). Thoughts?
I saw it once at New Jack City, a single pitch sport climbing area. Woman leads a 5.9, lowers down and belays her partner up. He has trouble at the second bolt and keeps falling. I'm 20 feet away and can't hear her, but everyone is able to hear him when he yells down, "Shut up! This is hard!"
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markc
Sep 28, 2009, 7:41 PM
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rgold wrote: But we still see non-professional idiots all the time taking out beginners, and then doing long leads with belays out of sight and no communication possible. I figure this lack of consideration and empathy for someone in a stressful and possibly dangerous situation makes these people highly unsuitable candidates for even a decent friendship, much less something more.
Well said, as usual. Much of this could be headed off before it starts with proper route selection. This goes beyond overall length and difficulty. If it's someone's first multipitch climb, I pick something that allows me to see the climber, and them to see me. This may mean breaking up pitches.
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dingus
Sep 28, 2009, 7:46 PM
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Hmmm, this is exactly what I did with Kaity. We led a traditional 3-pitch climb in 3 pitches even though it is common now to do it in 2 with 200' ropes. That party ahead of us took the 2-pitch method.
I was never out of sight of my daughter. She had a wingman at every belay who tied in 20 feet down the rope from her and shadowed her climb, for company as it turned out. She needed no help.
We specifically told the party ahead of us, at the start of the usual route jockeying for position discussion at the base - 'we have a beginner here. We're doing it in 3."
That's exactly what Angus told them.
Ironic, don't you think?
DMT
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markc
Sep 28, 2009, 8:06 PM
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It took you saying it again to prompt me, but I've flanked new climbers with experienced people, as well. I've put a new person in the middle of a team of three, where he won't have to fiddle with pro. If the belay isn't tight, screwing around with a piece while hanging could add to that feeling of insecurity. He doesn't have to clean pro, only unclip when the knot's approaching the biner and clip it back to the lower rope. The last person can clean. The new climber also has someone to keep him company on belays. This can be a good distraction from exposure.
Unless directed otherwise, I'll keep a fairly tight belay. Feeling that gentle tug is settling to some. It annoys the hell out of me, but I have trust in the system and my belayer.
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rockandlice
Sep 28, 2009, 8:34 PM
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dan2see wrote: SBut if you aren't having fun out there, then it's not fun anymore.
That's deep.
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evanwish
Sep 28, 2009, 10:02 PM
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a similar situation happened to me three years ago. I was taking my dad up a beginner route and got stuck behind a unbelievably slow party of 3 kids of about the same age (15 at the time).
Their "leader" was having a major panic attack an they allowed/insisted we pass them.
as i climbed i observed his pro and it was pretty sketchy and when i got up to my belay (ten feet right of the other leader) i set up my anchor and noticed the other leader had made no progress on his anchor.
i asked him what was up, and he asked for help. I then climbed over to him (5.5) and he explained that he had never placed any pro in his life and that the one and only leader in the group had a panic attack on the first pitch and could not lead anymore.
So i had to take gear off his sling (he didn't know what the words "nut" or "cam" meant) and set an anchor for him. Then he proceeded to belay both seconds at once making a huge cluster F*** out of it.
When i saw them at the top i told them they need to take a class and find somebody with experience; but at the time of course it was all about keeping them calm and focused.
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tradrenn
Sep 28, 2009, 11:31 PM
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blueeyedclimber wrote: I would be really curious if those people who say they would do nothing, actually do nothing if they are in a position to help.
Dear Josh.
There was no situation to deal or to help with.
The way I see it is:
Mr. Tradrenn goes to a local bar and meets a hoty, bla bla bla and of we go rock climbing next morning, and because she is total n00b and I'm the experienced guy then I take here on a multi pitch 10a gear route 13 pitches long. She gets stuck on one of the pitches.
I basically made that fuck up and I will deal with it, no need for help, I need to pay for my fuck up by learning the hard way.
Now if that really was me, then I would just take her craging on some nice 5.3 to 5.8 single pitch staff and find out where her top limit is and we would just have fun around there then of we go to the restaurant for a dinner and some beers (or red wine) then my place for some more bla bla bla.
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dingus
Sep 29, 2009, 12:29 AM
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tradrenn wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: I would be really curious if those people who say they would do nothing, actually do nothing if they are in a position to help. Dear Josh. There was no situation to deal or to help with. The way I see it is: Mr. Tradrenn goes to a local bar and meets a hoty, bla bla bla and of we go rock climbing next morning, and because she is total n00b and I'm the experienced guy then I take here on a multi pitch 10a gear route 13 pitches long. She gets stuck on one of the pitches. I basically made that fuck up and I will deal with it, no need for help, I need to pay for my fuck up by learning the hard way.
Yes typical guy's reaction - iTS ALL ABOUT YOU.
Forget about person down there going through a panic attack... YOU HAVE A LESSON TO LEARN.
Precisely the tude that leads uncaring dudes to put their dates through that shit.... because the GUY.... HAS A LESSON TO LEARN.
I teach my daughters - a man ever does that to you???
PUNCH HIM RIGHT IN THE COCK. Hard as possible.
DMT
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tradrenn
Sep 29, 2009, 12:47 AM
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dingus wrote: tradrenn wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: I would be really curious if those people who say they would do nothing, actually do nothing if they are in a position to help. Dear Josh. There was no situation to deal or to help with. The way I see it is: Mr. Tradrenn goes to a local bar and meets a hoty, bla bla bla and of we go rock climbing next morning, and because she is total n00b and I'm the experienced guy then I take here on a multi pitch 10a gear route 13 pitches long. She gets stuck on one of the pitches. I basically made that fuck up and I will deal with it, no need for help, I need to pay for my fuck up by learning the hard way. Yes typical guy's reaction - iTS ALL ABOUT YOU. Forget about person down there going through a panic attack... YOU HAVE A LESSON TO LEARN. Precisely the tude that leads uncaring dudes to put their dates through that shit.... because the GUY.... HAS A LESSON TO LEARN. I teach my daughters - a man ever does that to you??? PUNCH HIM RIGHT IN THE COCK. Hard as possible. DMT
I was speaking "theoretically speaking" just in case if you didn't get it.
BTW: you are an asshole for deleting the bottom part of my post and trying to make me look like an idiot.
Thanks for nothing oldtimer.
V.
(This post was edited by tradrenn on Sep 29, 2009, 12:54 AM)
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ladyscarlett
Sep 29, 2009, 12:58 AM
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Nice read!
tradrenn's response would be my first reaction. If nothing else because it wasn't too long since I was that follower dangling out there.
But promoting team self sufficiency isn't a bad thing to me.
Hearing the story reminded me of the best help I had when panicking as a second...
I'm attempting a nice traverse on what looks like pure slick moss and lichen. I've been contemplating it for about 10 min now trying to find another way. My leaders have said what they can..."You're on TR, gotcha."
I get on the edge of my balance and just when I'm about to let panic take complete hold, and a spectating hiker says "can I help?"
At that moment, I laugh. I think 'how the hell is HE going to help?!' and realizing that I was the only who could get me off that traverse, I committed to it.
Doesn't work for everyone, but sometimes absurdity can jolt me out of a panic mode.
My leader (and to a certain degree myself) - Do the move or watch your swing and enjoy the luxury of falling on TR! This is why you're 2nd!
But Dingus, your way is much nicer and does a better job of teaching a person how to actually get out of the situation. I'll try to be nicer next time! Thank goodness there are people nice enough to teach and share!
cheers!
ls
ps...glad she was hawt! Gotta take life's pleasure when they are provided!
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dingus
Sep 29, 2009, 1:04 AM
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tradrenn wrote: dingus wrote: tradrenn wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: I would be really curious if those people who say they would do nothing, actually do nothing if they are in a position to help. Dear Josh. There was no situation to deal or to help with. The way I see it is: Mr. Tradrenn goes to a local bar and meets a hoty, bla bla bla and of we go rock climbing next morning, and because she is total n00b and I'm the experienced guy then I take here on a multi pitch 10a gear route 13 pitches long. She gets stuck on one of the pitches. I basically made that fuck up and I will deal with it, no need for help, I need to pay for my fuck up by learning the hard way. Yes typical guy's reaction - iTS ALL ABOUT YOU. Forget about person down there going through a panic attack... YOU HAVE A LESSON TO LEARN. Precisely the tude that leads uncaring dudes to put their dates through that shit.... because the GUY.... HAS A LESSON TO LEARN. I teach my daughters - a man ever does that to you??? PUNCH HIM RIGHT IN THE COCK. Hard as possible. DMT I was speaking "theoretically speaking" just in case if you didn't get it. BTW: you are an asshole for deleting the bottom part of my post and trying to make me look like an idiot. Thanks for nothing oldtimer. V.
Coming from an asshole like you I reckon you'd know.
DMT
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dingus
Sep 29, 2009, 1:05 AM
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She wasn't my type, m'Lady.
You on the other hand......
DMT
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jmeizis
Sep 29, 2009, 1:32 AM
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Angry crowd. Dingus, I think you should have followed the advice you gave your daughter. Climb up and punch that guy right in the nuts. Then haul the second up and leave him ropeless at his anchor.
It can be hard to judge exactly how someone will react to a given climb. Maybe they met at the gym and she talked herself up to be a really good climber and he thought it was a good first date. He could just be a complete douche. It's hard to know from the given info. At minimum he could have done a better job managing communication with his second. Shows a lack of experience with multipitch in general and leading up them specifically.
What you did sounds pretty reasonable considering she wasn't in any real danger. That's about all you could do without putting yourself at risk. You could have done what I suggested above but you'd probably be stepping on some toes.
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tradrenn
Sep 29, 2009, 1:36 AM
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dingus wrote: tradrenn wrote: dingus wrote: tradrenn wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: I would be really curious if those people who say they would do nothing, actually do nothing if they are in a position to help. Dear Josh. There was no situation to deal or to help with. The way I see it is: Mr. Tradrenn goes to a local bar and meets a hoty, bla bla bla and of we go rock climbing next morning, and because she is total n00b and I'm the experienced guy then I take here on a multi pitch 10a gear route 13 pitches long. She gets stuck on one of the pitches. I basically made that fuck up and I will deal with it, no need for help, I need to pay for my fuck up by learning the hard way. Yes typical guy's reaction - iTS ALL ABOUT YOU. Forget about person down there going through a panic attack... YOU HAVE A LESSON TO LEARN. Precisely the tude that leads uncaring dudes to put their dates through that shit.... because the GUY.... HAS A LESSON TO LEARN. I teach my daughters - a man ever does that to you??? PUNCH HIM RIGHT IN THE COCK. Hard as possible. DMT I was speaking "theoretically speaking" just in case if you didn't get it. BTW: you are an asshole for deleting the bottom part of my post and trying to make me look like an idiot. Thanks for nothing oldtimer. V. Coming from an asshole like you I reckon you'd know. DMT
I think I just figured you out. You are only nice to ladies because you have 2 daughters, that makes total sense to me now.
Have a nice day dude.
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dingus
Sep 29, 2009, 1:40 AM
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tradrenn wrote: dingus wrote: tradrenn wrote: dingus wrote: tradrenn wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: I would be really curious if those people who say they would do nothing, actually do nothing if they are in a position to help. Dear Josh. There was no situation to deal or to help with. The way I see it is: Mr. Tradrenn goes to a local bar and meets a hoty, bla bla bla and of we go rock climbing next morning, and because she is total n00b and I'm the experienced guy then I take here on a multi pitch 10a gear route 13 pitches long. She gets stuck on one of the pitches. I basically made that fuck up and I will deal with it, no need for help, I need to pay for my fuck up by learning the hard way. Yes typical guy's reaction - iTS ALL ABOUT YOU. Forget about person down there going through a panic attack... YOU HAVE A LESSON TO LEARN. Precisely the tude that leads uncaring dudes to put their dates through that shit.... because the GUY.... HAS A LESSON TO LEARN. I teach my daughters - a man ever does that to you??? PUNCH HIM RIGHT IN THE COCK. Hard as possible. DMT I was speaking "theoretically speaking" just in case if you didn't get it. BTW: you are an asshole for deleting the bottom part of my post and trying to make me look like an idiot. Thanks for nothing oldtimer. V. Coming from an asshole like you I reckon you'd know. DMT I think I just figured you out. You are only nice to ladies because you have 2 daughters, that makes total sense to me now. Have a nice day dude.
That's a big part of it yes.
DMT
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markc
Sep 29, 2009, 2:48 AM
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jmeizis wrote: It can be hard to judge exactly how someone will react to a given climb.
For some reason this reminded me of the first time I seconded my friend on a multipitch route. I used to be afraid of heights, and he took me down to Seneca for the weekend. Standing at the base, he looked me in the eye and said, "If you feel really uncomfortable with the height, we'll descend as soon as it's safe." There was a brief pause. "If that happens, I'm never bringing you back here again." That shit kept me in check the whole weekend. Later on, he was the guy to teach me to lead on gear. He's a damn good friend.
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rgold
Sep 29, 2009, 2:55 AM
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robdotcalm wrote: The OP brings to mind a question I have had for some time. What do you do if your partner completely panics? If any professional guide is reading here, I’d appreciate your chiming in since I assume this is something guides train for.
I'm not sure you'd consider me a qualified responder. I was a "professional" guide (it got me through grad school) and indeed was part of the very beginnings of the AMGA. The qualifications at the time were the ability to walk into a stationary store and order business cards, which was one reason why the AMGA got started.
So, having thoroughly debunked any claim I might have to being authoritative, I have to say that I have yet to see or learn about any guiding techniques we didn't already know about, except of course for a number of modern tricks that rely on special equipment (gri-gris, atc guides, gi-gi plates) that did not exist at the time.
Anyway, what matters in general is being familiar with a broad range of techniques and being resourceful and able to adapt to unexpected situations. This type of experience is generally learned on big walls; the resourcefulness comes in because the party isn't going to have big wall equipment with them.
Of course, the first requirement is that the leader (guide or, we hope, experienced climber) will have selected a climb that can be done in relatively short pitches with no traversing and with excellent communication possibilities. No roaring rivers or waterfalls nearby. and the second always in sight from the leader's belay stance. And the climb has to be EASY. It's about operating in the multipitch environment, not about challenging the second's unformed climbing skills.
There are a whole host of reasons why long leads are at bad and possibly dangerous. A leader who does this to a second new to multipitch climbing is just plain incompetent for the task they have undertaken, no matter what their actual climbing skill.
On top of this, the "wingman" technique Dingus used is ideal for an experienced climber with an experienced friend who is willing to help out, but usually guides will not have this option and many experienced people won't either.
The first question the leader should ask themselves is, "am I comfortable soloing up and down this climb?" If not, then a "wingman" is not merely an option but rather an essential.
It would take a book (the AMGA publishes one but non-guides would have to pay an exorbitant price for it) to explain all the tricks of the trade. Much of the information can be extracted from the three self-rescue books on the market (but use some common sense about the practicality of some of the schemes---in particular, forget about 3:1 hauling.)
One trick that might have been relevant in robdot's situation is the tandem rappel. Install the ATC on the rope, connect the second with a shoulder-length sling, and the leader with a double length (or two shoulder-length slings hitched together). The leader controls the rappel with the second just above him, basically in the leader's lap.
I'm not a fan of rappel back-ups for every situation, but this is definitely an occasion for using them. In addition, the leader must have an effective strategy for increasing rappel friction while on rappel if it turns out that the ATC isn't providing enough for the double load.
If, in spite of planning and execution, the leader finds that they need to be much closer to a panicky second, then the best strategy is to redirect the belay through the anchor (it goes without saying that the anchor better be a damn good one), use the second as a counterweight and single-strand rappel down to just above them.
The second then gets to climb with continual tension from the leader's weight---the leader goes down as the second goes up (a kludgy version of hauling the pig). The leader will, of course, have to periodically ascend a bit, self-belaying if necessary on the same rappel strand. This requires that the second reach some sort of stance that allows the rope tension to be relaxed while the leader is ascending, presumably not a problem on an easy climb.
The counterweight technique works with two adults, even of quite different weights, but is not going to be practical with a child and a beefy grownup.
Since I've said this much, I'd like to add two more comments about the biggest nightmares facing a party of two with a beginner seconding.
1. It is absolutely essential to arrange the ropes at the belay so that they do not tangle. A brand-new second will not be able to untangle an ordinary cl*sterf*ck and will often be convinced that they have to untie to do it. If they are also out of sight of the leader, they may very well try to do this. If a tangle happens, there is a good chance that the leader will have to return to the second's stance to undo it.
2. Having a new second climb past pro and get themselves into a leader fall situation is a continual worry that is best avoided by not letting the second out of the leader's sight.
If the leader understands how to manage them (and many otherwise experienced climbers do not), I think double ropes, clipped alternately, are the best set-up for taking out beginners. The danger of the second climbing past pro without unclipping is eliminated, and the second line provides a host of additional opportunities if problems arise.
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the_leech
Sep 29, 2009, 4:54 AM
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dingus wrote: tradrenn wrote: BTW: you are an asshole for deleting the bottom part of my post and trying to make me look like an idiot. Thanks for nothing oldtimer. Coming from an asshole like you I reckon you'd know.
A fight! A fight!
Dingus and Tradrenn to the Octagon!
A fight to the death to settle this once and for all!!!
Blood, gore, beating, pounding, grappling, and all sorts of manly things to come!
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granite_grrl
Sep 29, 2009, 12:13 PM
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dingus wrote: tradrenn wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: I would be really curious if those people who say they would do nothing, actually do nothing if they are in a position to help. Dear Josh. There was no situation to deal or to help with. The way I see it is: Mr. Tradrenn goes to a local bar and meets a hoty, bla bla bla and of we go rock climbing next morning, and because she is total n00b and I'm the experienced guy then I take here on a multi pitch 10a gear route 13 pitches long. She gets stuck on one of the pitches. I basically made that fuck up and I will deal with it, no need for help, I need to pay for my fuck up by learning the hard way. Yes typical guy's reaction - iTS ALL ABOUT YOU. Forget about person down there going through a panic attack... YOU HAVE A LESSON TO LEARN. Precisely the tude that leads uncaring dudes to put their dates through that shit.... because the GUY.... HAS A LESSON TO LEARN. I teach my daughters - a man ever does that to you??? PUNCH HIM RIGHT IN THE COCK. Hard as possible. DMT
Think about this: When I was recovering from my accident I was in a super vulnerable position emotionally (heck I'm still fairly vulnerable, I just know a little better what will be good for me, and what will be bad). There was one time at Lion's Head I was being belayed from the top and Nathan was TR soloing on some routes near by (for those who don't know, you access this area from the top, I lowered to a hanging belay station to start the climb in the middle of the cliff, the rock cutting back below me).
Anyway, the start moves of this one climb were tricky, and I didn't want to fall in case I was left hanging in the abyss. It also didn't help that my belayer couldn't hear me. So I'm scared and I have a breakdown. Nathan is right there, a couple of climbs over, watching all of this.
I ask him sobbing to help me. He tells me he can't. I tell him I need him to say nice stuff to me......he tells me I'm pretty.
I wish I could have cock punched him. I needed emotional support and he was all about self-soothing. When I think about it now I still want to cock punch him. It was a dick move on his part.
I eventually did some tom foolery, levering up to the next bolt and aiding through the tricky section. In the end I wasn't helpless, I knew how to get myself out of it....I just don't see why he couldn't give me the emotional support and reminded me of my capabilities.
If you can't tell, I'm still angry about this incident (three years later). To all you men and our fucking self soothing....fuck you.
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clausti
Sep 29, 2009, 1:48 PM
Post #49 of 182
(4367 views)
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Registered: Oct 5, 2004
Posts: 5690
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granite_grrl wrote: dingus wrote: tradrenn wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: I would be really curious if those people who say they would do nothing, actually do nothing if they are in a position to help. Dear Josh. There was no situation to deal or to help with. The way I see it is: Mr. Tradrenn goes to a local bar and meets a hoty, bla bla bla and of we go rock climbing next morning, and because she is total n00b and I'm the experienced guy then I take here on a multi pitch 10a gear route 13 pitches long. She gets stuck on one of the pitches. I basically made that fuck up and I will deal with it, no need for help, I need to pay for my fuck up by learning the hard way. Yes typical guy's reaction - iTS ALL ABOUT YOU. Forget about person down there going through a panic attack... YOU HAVE A LESSON TO LEARN. Precisely the tude that leads uncaring dudes to put their dates through that shit.... because the GUY.... HAS A LESSON TO LEARN. I teach my daughters - a man ever does that to you??? PUNCH HIM RIGHT IN THE COCK. Hard as possible. DMT First, I'll say you know I love ya, tradrenn....and I'm thinking you just haven't thought this all the way through. Think about this: When I was recovering from my accident I was in a super vulnerable position emotionally (heck I'm still fairly vulnerable, I just know a little better what will be good for me, and what will be bad). There was one time at Lion's Head I was being belayed from the top and Nathan was TR soloing on some routes near by (for those who don't know, you access this area from the top, I lowered to a hanging belay station to start the climb in the middle of the cliff, the rock cutting back below me). Anyway, the start moves of this one climb were tricky, and I didn't want to fall in case I was left hanging in the abyss. It also didn't help that my belayer couldn't hear me. So I'm scared and I have a breakdown. Nathan is right there, a couple of climbs over, watching all of this.
I ask him sobbing to help me. He tells me he can't. I tell him I need him to say nice stuff to me......he tells me I'm pretty. I wish I could have cock punched him. I needed emotional support and he was all about self-soothing. When I think about it now I still want to cock punch him. It was a dick move on his part. I eventually did some tom foolery, levering up to the next bolt and aiding through the tricky section. In the end I wasn't helpless, I knew how to get myself out of it....I just don't see why he couldn't give me the emotional support and reminded me of my capabilities. If you can't tell, I'm still angry about this incident (three years later). To all you men and our fucking self soothing....fuck you.
can i make that my new signature? 'cause that is fucking hilarious.
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camhead
Sep 29, 2009, 1:58 PM
Post #50 of 182
(4361 views)
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Registered: Sep 10, 2001
Posts: 20939
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clausti wrote: granite_grrl wrote: dingus wrote: tradrenn wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: I would be really curious if those people who say they would do nothing, actually do nothing if they are in a position to help. Dear Josh. There was no situation to deal or to help with. The way I see it is: Mr. Tradrenn goes to a local bar and meets a hoty, bla bla bla and of we go rock climbing next morning, and because she is total n00b and I'm the experienced guy then I take here on a multi pitch 10a gear route 13 pitches long. She gets stuck on one of the pitches. I basically made that fuck up and I will deal with it, no need for help, I need to pay for my fuck up by learning the hard way. Yes typical guy's reaction - iTS ALL ABOUT YOU. Forget about person down there going through a panic attack... YOU HAVE A LESSON TO LEARN. Precisely the tude that leads uncaring dudes to put their dates through that shit.... because the GUY.... HAS A LESSON TO LEARN. I teach my daughters - a man ever does that to you??? PUNCH HIM RIGHT IN THE COCK. Hard as possible. DMT First, I'll say you know I love ya, tradrenn....and I'm thinking you just haven't thought this all the way through. Think about this: When I was recovering from my accident I was in a super vulnerable position emotionally (heck I'm still fairly vulnerable, I just know a little better what will be good for me, and what will be bad). There was one time at Lion's Head I was being belayed from the top and Nathan was TR soloing on some routes near by (for those who don't know, you access this area from the top, I lowered to a hanging belay station to start the climb in the middle of the cliff, the rock cutting back below me). Anyway, the start moves of this one climb were tricky, and I didn't want to fall in case I was left hanging in the abyss. It also didn't help that my belayer couldn't hear me. So I'm scared and I have a breakdown. Nathan is right there, a couple of climbs over, watching all of this.
I ask him sobbing to help me. He tells me he can't. I tell him I need him to say nice stuff to me......he tells me I'm pretty. I wish I could have cock punched him. I needed emotional support and he was all about self-soothing. When I think about it now I still want to cock punch him. It was a dick move on his part. I eventually did some tom foolery, levering up to the next bolt and aiding through the tricky section. In the end I wasn't helpless, I knew how to get myself out of it....I just don't see why he couldn't give me the emotional support and reminded me of my capabilities. If you can't tell, I'm still angry about this incident (three years later). To all you men and our fucking self soothing....fuck you. can i make that my new signature? 'cause that is fucking hilarious.
Yeah, when we climb with you guys next week, GG, I'm going to tell you that you're pretty when you're in the middle of a crux, just to see what chossy does.* Heh.
*put an ice-axe or drill bit through my skull?
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