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derkl
Oct 1, 2009, 3:07 PM
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Got a friend who has some really old cams (~10 years), but they've barely been used. Just wondering how much cam technology has changed in the past 10 years, how these would stack up to the cams of today in terms of safety and utility. Any ideas?
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swaghole
Oct 1, 2009, 3:33 PM
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Visually, I have noticed that the lobes have gotten a littke thicker (greater contact surface with the rock) and that the lenght of the stem is usually longer and more user-frinendly on newer cams (at least for BD).
I can't tell if the caming ratio has changed. It would be interesting to figure out if it has.
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shockabuku
Oct 1, 2009, 3:37 PM
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From 10 years ago? Not much. People are still climbing on cams that are way older than 10 years and have seen a lot of use in the meantime.
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Carnage
Oct 1, 2009, 4:00 PM
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it will prob come down to usability. Things like ergonomic thumb loops/triggers wont be on the old cams. They will still be usable, just not quite as nice.
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billcoe_
Oct 1, 2009, 6:48 PM
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derkl wrote: Got a friend who has some really old cams (~10 years), but they've barely been used. Just wondering how much cam technology has changed in the past 10 years, how these would stack up to the cams of today in terms of safety and utility. Any ideas?
All kinds of ideas. Won't discuss it unless I knew what brand they were.
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shimanilami
Oct 1, 2009, 7:01 PM
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Generally speaking, there has been a push to make cams lighter over the last decade. For the most part, this is achieved by machining out the cam lobes, using thinner cables, and similar modifications.
I don't think that cams are any more or less safe than they were 10 years ago.
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danull16
Oct 1, 2009, 10:32 PM
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i don't know when this happened, but the stem used to be hard metal instead of the wires we know today. my GF's dad has some old ass cams that he loves and has hanging in his truck/windows/walls and in his bathroom. but he won't climb on them because of the hard metal stems. (they transfer the force from tension, which is what they are designed for to torque, which will make the cam fail.) anyways, like i said i don't when that change occurred.
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Couloirman
Oct 1, 2009, 10:37 PM
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danull16 wrote: i don't know when this happened, but the stem used to be hard metal instead of the wires we know today. but he won't climb on them because of the hard metal stems. (they transfer the force from tension, which is what they are designed for to torque, which will make the cam fail.)
or it could make the cam strong as a freaking truck in a horizontal placement with a gunks tie off. Place the cam in a horizontal, tie it off almost flush with the wall and the cam barely sees any pull out forces compared to a vertical placement, and the metal stem doesn't get too much torque that could break it. I will be adding many more forged friends to the rack now that I live in the vicinity of Gunks country.
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shimanilami
Oct 1, 2009, 11:56 PM
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danull16 wrote: i don't know when this happened, but the stem used to be hard metal instead of the wires we know today.
They're called Forged Friends and you can still buy them today. The move to flexible stems happened more like 30 years ago.
(This post was edited by shimanilami on Oct 2, 2009, 12:27 AM)
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ptlong
Oct 2, 2009, 12:02 AM
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You can still buy them today but not from Wild Country.
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squishy654
Oct 2, 2009, 11:36 PM
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ptlong wrote: You can still buy them today but not from Wild Country.
That's not true, but you better hurry, they only have 1 inch left...I picked up a 3.5 earlier his year, they had all the sizes about 8 months ago, so the inventory is gone except for the 1 inch...
http://www.gearexpress.biz/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=G&Product_Code=9650
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ptlong
Oct 3, 2009, 12:45 AM
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I meant that WC doesn't make them anymore. You can still find some of them for sale but the pipeline is emptying out.
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cilohabmilc
Oct 3, 2009, 1:23 AM
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Ditto w/ what everyone else is saying. But if you have any questions as to the integrity of the cams (especially if they have old slings attached) get them inspected. A lot of cam manufacturers will thoroughly inspect, test, and re-sling a cam for a nominal fee. I've heard they do it mostly because they want to know how their design is holding up and what they should change for their new models. I know Metolius does it for their products.
From the metolius website:
http://www.metoliusclimbing.com/...returns-repairs.html
"Service Fees:
Metolius Climbing makes all efforts to return your cams to their best possible condition. However cams have a finite lifespan and may need to be retired as a result of broken springs, excessively worn lobes, severely bent cables, etc. and might not be repairable*. Regardless of condition, please send all Metolius cams to us for inspection as it helps us improve our product.
Re-Slings are $3 per cam and includes: Inspection, Cleaning, Lube, Tuning, and new Nylon/ Dyneema Slings.
Re-Wires are $8 per cam and includes the Re-sling service PLUS new trigger wires or cords.
We will contact you if additional repairs are deemed necessary.
Return shipping is $10 for UPS Ground in the USA."
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gunkiemike
Oct 6, 2009, 10:33 PM
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Just to echo the above, 10 yr is not old.
I can't think of a 10 y.o. cam that isn't worth using still. OK, maybe not some Aliens :-)
And danull, if you're reading this, your gf's dad, if he still climbs, needs to learn how to rig a tie-off on those suckers.
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gunkiemike
Oct 7, 2009, 12:04 AM
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Hmm, I still carry a couple of those. The failures in Aric's testing were mostly due to slippage, and as anyone who's following the Aliens debate knows, there seems to be a question re. the test jaws' texture.
But point well taken: Camalots have been significantly re-designed (twice).
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ptlong
Oct 7, 2009, 1:55 AM
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The U-stem Camalot Jrs .5 & .75 were produced under ten years ago but just barely. By early 2000 they were history.
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adatesman
Oct 7, 2009, 2:49 AM
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patto
Oct 7, 2009, 11:10 AM
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Black Diamond cams have changed considerably. Personally I wouldn't use the dual stem camalot design. Whereas old HBs, WC and metolius cams I would have no issue with. Pre C4 Camalots are fine they just aren't as light or as ergonomic as C4s.
In my opinion early BDs were inferior. But I'm a big fan of modern C4s and they form the basis of my rack.
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