Now think about a country like China, where over half a million people live in abject poverty.

I don't really know much but there's a brief blurb on the history of the company at their website in the 'about us' link.
http://www.acopausa.com/

I'm gonna say it again. There is no model based solely on increasing profits except in the minds of wacky ideologues.

Well.... "growth at all costs" isn't any kind of an ideal, but growth is important. That's just a sort of sound bite that evokes an emotional response around a very complex issue.

It may help if you think of it this way. If population increases, we have to provide new goods and services to provide for the additions or living standards fall since everybody can't have the same amount of goods & services anymore. So growth in the quantity of goods & services is important. If the central bankers get things right (low inflation), money is just a proxy for goods & services, so we measure the results in money.

Now think about a country like China, where over half a million people live in abject poverty. We're talking here about not having the wherewithall to buy a pair of shoes and living without clean water, refrigeration or any kind of medical care. We have a moral imperative to increase the goods and services available in a situation like that. It would be nice if every house had a toilet, and maybe a refrigerator. Producing those things means economic growth, period. This is why it's so important that the underdeveloped countries grow their economies. Remember, again, that money is just a proxy for goods & services.

In your profit discussion, you haven't taken productivity increases or reduction in prices of inputs into account. Either of these things can increase profits in a situation of static demand.

It is certainly simple math, but you have to have a conceptual framework that takes all the variables into account. This is why economics education is so important.

Most of the people who take economic health to be equivalent to economic growth seem to me to be news anchors whose currency is simplicity and sound bites (or maybe politicians).

The highlighted part is where I knew your argument was bullshit and just a cover to grab as much cash as possible for whoever's steering the wheel until the boat runs aground.

Now think about a country like China, where over half a million people live in abject poverty. We're talking here about not having the wherewithall to buy a pair of shoes and living without clean water, refrigeration or any kind of medical care. We have a moral imperative to increase the goods and services available in a situation like that. It would be nice if every house had a toilet, and maybe a refrigerator. Producing those things means economic growth, period. This is why it's so important that the underdeveloped countries grow their economies. Remember, again, that money is just a proxy for goods & services.

The highlighted part is where I knew your argument was bullshit and just a cover to grab as much cash as possible for whoever's steering the wheel until the boat runs aground

I think you meant billion or some other large number?
I'm sure over half a million people in the good ol' US of A live in abject poverty.

The highlighted part is where I knew your argument was bullshit and just a cover to grab as much cash as possible for whoever's steering the wheel until the boat runs aground

I have very little knowledge of this kind of thing. All I know is that there a lot of people who are trying to come up with a method to evaluate the sustainability of a business. This does not preclude growth and I'm not sure that anyone really knows what it means yet. They just think that the current system is broken. Maybe I listen to too many idealogues but the current economic woes indicate to me that there is a problem.

$2/day goes a lot further in some parts of the world than others, hence there being a hole in your logic.

I have very little knowledge of this kind of thing. All I know is that there a lot of people who are trying to come up with a method to evaluate the sustainability of a business. This does not preclude growth and I'm not sure that anyone really knows what it means yet. They just think that the current system is broken. Maybe I listen to too many idealogues but the current economic woes indicate to me that there is a problem.

Most of the people who take economic health to be equivalent to economic growth seem to me to be news anchors whose currency is simplicity and sound bites (or maybe politicians).

Have you no conscience? Have you no empathy for the plight of fellow humans? Do you just not understand that material things are needed for a life free from disease and discomfort?

These people desperately need things to reduce infant mortality, to eliminate intestinal parasites, to fill their teeth when they rot, to prevent death from bacterial infection. The only way to make this happen is to make the stuff they need to bring it about. That means clean water, refrigeration for food, wastewater treatment, etc. Where does this stuff come from? It doesn't materialize out of thin air and when it does get produced, the economy, by definition, will grow.

What a cold-hearted statement!

Do I have a conscience? Yes. And I've seen abject poverty, it clearly sucks. Whole families living in huts made out of sticks and scrap plastic with dirt floors and the animals, if there are any, walking in and out of the huts. Guess what? Big business doesn't give a shit if they aren't making money off it, and you don't make money by selling shit to poor people.

I've certainly seen the blurb, which doesn't say much about the relationship between the two companies. It's a PR piece, meant for public consumption.

Acopa, Mexico is more than just the factory. It's a company and a brand of climbing shoe that's been sold since the early 90's. I don't know exactly who owns the intellectual property and how distribution rights are divided now. Guess I'll ask Dario at summer OR.

Acopa plans on continuing.
http://supertopo.com/...a_What_happens_to_it

Not so sure anymore (that link is now a bit old), as all the stores I went to in Utah at the beginning of the month had their Acopas heavily discounted (which allowed me to pick up a pair of JB for 79$), it seems dealers are getting rid of their stocks.

It certainly would be a shame if they went out of business.

Do I have a conscience? Yes. And I've seen abject poverty, it clearly sucks. Whole families living in huts made out of sticks and scrap plastic with dirt floors and the animals, if there are any, walking in and out of the huts.

Then why, in heaven's name, do you write as if you don't?

Let's all get together and help these people lift themselves up. You ought to support businesses that are helping build local infrastructure and bring basic necessities to these people. The way out isn't handouts. The way out is commerce. Period.

Anyway, if I saw any businesses doing anything for these type of communities I would support them. But I've never seen that. I see businesses coming into areas where they can make money. That's it. So don't expect me to believe that big business in general has the welfare of the world as their motivating factor because I won't buy that.

Not so sure anymore (that link is now a bit old), as all the stores I went to in Utah at the beginning of the month had their Acopas heavily discounted (which allowed me to pick up a pair of JB for 79$), it seems dealers are getting rid of their stocks.