I think you meant "triaxial trolling". It's when you troll 3 forums at once. I would think you'd be familiar with this?

Here is my exhibit B: http://www.bebo.com/...lashBoxId=8160254774

Observe at 6:30 in the time line.

Skinner's unfortunate death has no place here.

Here's what happens when you clip directly into the harness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRCvGpUnBbY

Observe at 3:57 in the time line.

I feel in some ways that our work is not as safe as it could be. I need a little advice on how to bring this up to the boss. For one, our ropes do not last very long because my coworkers to not enforce rules like not steping on the rope. When we're outside with mainly gravel! Anyways, the ropes get nasty looking... I guess just fuzzy which I've just been told today is wear but not damage. As far as harnesses go. When do these need to be replaced? They also looked fuzzy from being worn, not exactly sure how bad that actually is.

However, if skinner would have clipped his rappel device to the hard points...

Anyway, I know a lot of old timers that back-up their belay loop with some medium sized accessory cord. This adds redundancy and would eliminate the argument about cross loading, but some argue that it clutters your harness.

Here is my exhibit B: http://www.bebo.com/...lashBoxId=8160254774

Observe at 6:30 in the time line.

Here's what happens when you clip directly into the harness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRCvGpUnBbY

Observe at 3:57 in the time line.

Observe Murdoch rappelling in with a jumbo hunting knife ... a belay loop wouldn't stand a chance against that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzYqmljrDb4

Now I will make sure I will. I feel in some ways that our work is not as safe as it could be. I need a little advice on how to bring this up to the boss. For one, our ropes do not last very long because my coworkers to not enforce rules like not steping on the rope. When we're outside with mainly gravel! Anyways, the ropes get nasty looking... I guess just fuzzy which I've just been told today is wear but not damage. As far as harnesses go. When do these need to be replaced? They also looked fuzzy from being worn, not exactly sure how bad that actually is.

do you even know what happened to todd skinner? it had nothing to do with his rappel device being clipped to his belay loop.

This is the National Park Services' morning report from October 30, 2006.

"On the afternoon of October 23rd, dispatch received a telephone call reporting a fatal climbing fall. Jim Hewitt reported that he and his partner, well-known climber Todd Skinner, had been working on a first free ascent of the "Jesus Built My Hotrod" route on the overhanging west face of the Leaning Tower. Skinner's fall occurred when he was rappelling. Hewitt told investigators that he had been above Skinner when he fell. As he was rappelling on the low-stretch ropes that they had fixed on the route, Hewitt came to Skinner's Grigri descent device on the rope at the point where he'd fallen. The Grigri had a still-locked carabiner attached which had been connected to Skinner's harness. When Skinner's body was recovered, the belay loop on his harness was missing. The next day, rangers recovered a broken harness belay loop in vegetation at the base of the wall. It was very worn at the spot where the break had occurred. Hewitt later told investigators that Skinner was aware that the belay loop on his harness was in a weakened condition prior to the climb, and that they had talked about its poor condition three days earlier..."

I don't mean to sound rude, but I think it's pretty clear what happened.

Your thoughts?

Extremely strong entries from both of you. I believe that you have effectively put this argument to rest.

This is the stuff that makes RC.com worth coming back to over and over again.

RC.com at it's finest. Impressive work guys.

Extremely strong entries from both of you. I believe that you have effectively put this argument to rest.

This is the stuff that makes RC.com worth coming back to over and over again.

i have been under the impression that skinner's belay loop failure was due to a daisychain being girth hitched to the belay loop. the rappel device was attached to the daisy when the belay loop failed.

This seems dumb to me since if the belay loop snaps... your falling.

Let's not forget Todd Skinner ...

The OP is not asking about clipping into a belay loop that has been overused and is likely cut 9/10 of the way through already. i think he is asking about clipping into a belay loop that is fully functional so this does not apply.

My opinion; don't use a carabiner. Tie in the kids so that they learn the "proper" way to do things. Otherwise they need to unlearn this thing you taught them and learn something different when it's their turn to climb El Cap.

Dave

Extremely strong entries from both of you. I believe that you have effectively put this argument to rest.

This is the stuff that makes RC.com worth coming back to over and over again.

I've had several disagreements with co-workers on this topic and I wanted to see what kind of response I get here.

For work, we top rope kids all weighting under about 150 pounds. Since this is going on all day, and on a very short time schedule, we generally tie a figure 8 on a bite, and clip a carabiner to it. I know tying in is safer and has one less piece of equipment that can fail, but the convienience and using strong biners definately makes up for this.

Here is where we disagree. I was trained to clip the biner into both hardpoints. It only makes sense to me because if one were to fail, there would be another. Simple redundancy I feel very important to climbing.

Some of my co-workers, have been taught to clip the biner into the belay loop only. They say with a biner you clip to the belay loop, when tying in, you do so to the hardpoints. This seems dumb to me since if the belay loop snaps... your falling.

Is there any sense to this? or why do they decide this? I do take precaution when clipping into the hardpoints to put the gate outwards, so that it won't rub against the hardpoints on the harness and cause any undue wear. Wear and tear on the harness is the only possible reason I can see why this would make sense.

In an arguement, someone brought up triaxial loading or something to that affect in this situation, if this is a concern, could someone please explain why and what exactly it is?

Now I will make sure I will. I feel in some ways that our work is not as safe as it could be. I need a little advice on how to bring this up to the boss. For one, our ropes do not last very long because my coworkers to not enforce rules like not steping on the rope. When we're outside with mainly gravel! Anyways, the ropes get nasty looking... I guess just fuzzy which I've just been told today is wear but not damage. As far as harnesses go. When do these need to be replaced? They also looked fuzzy from being worn, not exactly sure how bad that actually is.

This place you work at sounds strange. The gym I climb just mandated a double fisherman as a backup to the tie in for a figure 8. If you are so worried about speed in tying people in then...
I go for safe over speed any day.