Forums: Climbing Information: Gear Heads:
Future of Acopa and CCH
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for Gear Heads

Premier Sponsor:

 
First page Previous page 1 2 3 Next page Last page  View All


pfwein


Oct 21, 2009, 12:41 PM
Post #26 of 52 (1588 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 8, 2009
Posts: 353

Re: [rmsusa] Future of Acopa and CCH [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

rmsusa wrote:
Now think about a country like China, where over half a million people live in abject poverty.
I think you meant billion or some other large number?
I'm sure over half a million people in the good ol' US of A live in abject poverty.


rmsusa


Oct 21, 2009, 12:50 PM
Post #27 of 52 (1582 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 24, 2004
Posts: 1017

Re: [hafilax] Future of Acopa and CCH [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

hafilax wrote:
rmsusa wrote:
In reply to:
Acopa is an American company based in Las Vegas with a factory in Mexico. They bought an existing factory in 2003

That's interesting to know. So Dario sold Acopa, Equipo Deportivo, SA de CV to Acopa International, LLC? Did it happen just after the accident?
I don't really know much but there's a brief blurb on the history of the company at their website in the 'about us' link.
http://www.acopausa.com/

I've certainly seen the blurb, which doesn't say much about the relationship between the two companies. It's a PR piece, meant for public consumption.

Acopa, Mexico is more than just the factory. It's a company and a brand of climbing shoe that's been sold since the early 90's. I don't know exactly who owns the intellectual property and how distribution rights are divided now. Guess I'll ask Dario at summer OR.


hafilax


Oct 21, 2009, 12:54 PM
Post #28 of 52 (1582 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 11, 2007
Posts: 3025

Re: [rmsusa] Future of Acopa and CCH [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

rmsusa wrote:
In reply to:
anything is better than a model based solely on increasing profits.

I'm gonna say it again. There is no model based solely on increasing profits except in the minds of wacky ideologues.
I have very little knowledge of this kind of thing. All I know is that there a lot of people who are trying to come up with a method to evaluate the sustainability of a business. This does not preclude growth and I'm not sure that anyone really knows what it means yet. They just think that the current system is broken. Maybe I listen to too many idealogues but the current economic woes indicate to me that there is a problem.


shockabuku


Oct 21, 2009, 1:04 PM
Post #29 of 52 (1571 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4868

Re: [rmsusa] Future of Acopa and CCH [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

rmsusa wrote:
In reply to:
Seems obvious to me. I mean, everybody freaks out when growth drops below a certain rate, even if its still growing.

My point is that you either increase profits by selling more units, or by raising prices. If demand stays constant, you won't increase profits without raising prices. That's basic math.

Mind you, if other industries are increasing prices to increase profits or cover increasing operating costs or whatever, eventually you'll have to increase wages to be commensurate with the cost of living of your employees. Which means your expenses go up, so you either have to increase sales or increase prices to cover it. None of this complicated economic theory, its just simple math.

My take on the theory side of things is that so long as we measure economic health in terms of economic growth, we'll continue to see prices increase without any measurable increase in quality. In that sense, growth drives inflation.

Well.... "growth at all costs" isn't any kind of an ideal, but growth is important. That's just a sort of sound bite that evokes an emotional response around a very complex issue.

It may help if you think of it this way. If population increases, we have to provide new goods and services to provide for the additions or living standards fall since everybody can't have the same amount of goods & services anymore. So growth in the quantity of goods & services is important. If the central bankers get things right (low inflation), money is just a proxy for goods & services, so we measure the results in money.

Now think about a country like China, where over half a million people live in abject poverty. We're talking here about not having the wherewithall to buy a pair of shoes and living without clean water, refrigeration or any kind of medical care. We have a moral imperative to increase the goods and services available in a situation like that. It would be nice if every house had a toilet, and maybe a refrigerator. Producing those things means economic growth, period. This is why it's so important that the underdeveloped countries grow their economies. Remember, again, that money is just a proxy for goods & services.

In your profit discussion, you haven't taken productivity increases or reduction in prices of inputs into account. Either of these things can increase profits in a situation of static demand.

It is certainly simple math, but you have to have a conceptual framework that takes all the variables into account. This is why economics education is so important.

Most of the people who take economic health to be equivalent to economic growth seem to me to be news anchors whose currency is simplicity and sound bites (or maybe politicians).

The highlighted part is where I knew your argument was bullshit and just a cover to grab as much cash as possible for whoever's steering the wheel until the boat runs aground.


gunkiemike


Oct 21, 2009, 1:52 PM
Post #30 of 52 (1542 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 1, 2002
Posts: 2266

Re: [shockabuku] Future of Acopa and CCH [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

shockabuku wrote:
rmsusa wrote:
In reply to:
Seems obvious to me. I mean, everybody freaks out when growth drops below a certain rate, even if its still growing.

My point is that you either increase profits by selling more units, or by raising prices. If demand stays constant, you won't increase profits without raising prices. That's basic math.

Mind you, if other industries are increasing prices to increase profits or cover increasing operating costs or whatever, eventually you'll have to increase wages to be commensurate with the cost of living of your employees. Which means your expenses go up, so you either have to increase sales or increase prices to cover it. None of this complicated economic theory, its just simple math.

My take on the theory side of things is that so long as we measure economic health in terms of economic growth, we'll continue to see prices increase without any measurable increase in quality. In that sense, growth drives inflation.

Well.... "growth at all costs" isn't any kind of an ideal, but growth is important. That's just a sort of sound bite that evokes an emotional response around a very complex issue.

It may help if you think of it this way. If population increases, we have to provide new goods and services to provide for the additions or living standards fall since everybody can't have the same amount of goods & services anymore. So growth in the quantity of goods & services is important. If the central bankers get things right (low inflation), money is just a proxy for goods & services, so we measure the results in money.

Now think about a country like China, where over half a million people live in abject poverty. We're talking here about not having the wherewithall to buy a pair of shoes and living without clean water, refrigeration or any kind of medical care. We have a moral imperative to increase the goods and services available in a situation like that. It would be nice if every house had a toilet, and maybe a refrigerator. Producing those things means economic growth, period. This is why it's so important that the underdeveloped countries grow their economies. Remember, again, that money is just a proxy for goods & services.

In your profit discussion, you haven't taken productivity increases or reduction in prices of inputs into account. Either of these things can increase profits in a situation of static demand.

It is certainly simple math, but you have to have a conceptual framework that takes all the variables into account. This is why economics education is so important.

Most of the people who take economic health to be equivalent to economic growth seem to me to be news anchors whose currency is simplicity and sound bites (or maybe politicians).

The highlighted part is where I knew your argument was bullshit and just a cover to grab as much cash as possible for whoever's steering the wheel until the boat runs aground.

Isn't that the essence of capitalism? Use up the planet's resources to make tons of money. Then buy a new planet and do it all over again.


rmsusa


Oct 21, 2009, 2:42 PM
Post #31 of 52 (1515 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 24, 2004
Posts: 1017

Re: [gunkiemike] Future of Acopa and CCH [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
Now think about a country like China, where over half a million people live in abject poverty. We're talking here about not having the wherewithall to buy a pair of shoes and living without clean water, refrigeration or any kind of medical care. We have a moral imperative to increase the goods and services available in a situation like that. It would be nice if every house had a toilet, and maybe a refrigerator. Producing those things means economic growth, period. This is why it's so important that the underdeveloped countries grow their economies. Remember, again, that money is just a proxy for goods & services.

In reply to:
The highlighted part is where I knew your argument was bullshit and just a cover to grab as much cash as possible for whoever's steering the wheel until the boat runs aground

Have you no conscience? Have you no empathy for the plight of fellow humans? Do you just not understand that material things are needed for a life free from disease and discomfort?

These people desperately need things to reduce infant mortality, to eliminate intestinal parasites, to fill their teeth when they rot, to prevent death from bacterial infection. The only way to make this happen is to make the stuff they need to bring it about. That means clean water, refrigeration for food, wastewater treatment, etc. Where does this stuff come from? It doesn't materialize out of thin air and when it does get produced, the economy, by definition, will grow.

What a cold-hearted statement!


rmsusa


Oct 21, 2009, 2:45 PM
Post #32 of 52 (1513 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 24, 2004
Posts: 1017

Re: [pfwein] Future of Acopa and CCH [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

pfwein wrote:
rmsusa wrote:
Now think about a country like China, where over half a million people live in abject poverty.
I think you meant billion or some other large number?
I'm sure over half a million people in the good ol' US of A live in abject poverty.

That's correct.

Abject poverty of the kind you see in China simply doesn't exist in the US. Abject, in this case means living on less than US $2/day.


rmsusa


Oct 21, 2009, 2:48 PM
Post #33 of 52 (1509 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 24, 2004
Posts: 1017

Re: [gunkiemike] Future of Acopa and CCH [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
The highlighted part is where I knew your argument was bullshit and just a cover to grab as much cash as possible for whoever's steering the wheel until the boat runs aground

Now there's a soundbite meant to produce maximal emotional response! You don't run a radio talk show, do you?


adatesman


Oct 21, 2009, 3:01 PM
Post #34 of 52 (1499 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 13, 2005
Posts: 3479

Post deleted by adatesman [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  

 


rmsusa


Oct 21, 2009, 3:12 PM
Post #35 of 52 (1489 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 24, 2004
Posts: 1017

Re: [hafilax] Future of Acopa and CCH [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

hafilax wrote:
rmsusa wrote:
In reply to:
anything is better than a model based solely on increasing profits.

I'm gonna say it again. There is no model based solely on increasing profits except in the minds of wacky ideologues.
I have very little knowledge of this kind of thing. All I know is that there a lot of people who are trying to come up with a method to evaluate the sustainability of a business. This does not preclude growth and I'm not sure that anyone really knows what it means yet. They just think that the current system is broken. Maybe I listen to too many idealogues but the current economic woes indicate to me that there is a problem.

You're right. Nobody knows what sustainability of a business means, never mind an entire social system (economy). There are lots of smart people thinking about it. Sustainability probably doesn't preclude cycles, either.

One of the problems we have here is that we talk of an "economic system" as if it were a real thing that can be bounded and managed. It's not. It's a set of complex social behaviors that evolved with the human race. In some sense, the economy IS society. Human beings exchange things by their nature and by necessity. It's not a "system", it just happened, and when humans learned how to do partial differential equations, they incorporated those techniques into their exchanges. It worked in Physics, it ought to work for risk pricing. Economics may be the most profound of all the social sciences, since exchange may be the most pervasive of all the human social behaviors.

We're experiencing a cycle just like all the cycles that've happened ever since people started trading stuff. Most people thought we'd finally gotten the cycles under control using techniques for trading risk developed in the 1970's & 80's. Turned out not to be true. I'm not sure that "the system's broken" even makes any sense. Maybe the cycles are just an inherent property of social systems? Maybe we need some new rules governing certain types of exchange. I'll go for that.


pfwein


Oct 21, 2009, 3:39 PM
Post #36 of 52 (1476 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 8, 2009
Posts: 353

Re: [adatesman] Future of Acopa and CCH [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

adatesman wrote:
rmsusa wrote:
pfwein wrote:
rmsusa wrote:
Now think about a country like China, where over half a million people live in abject poverty.
I think you meant billion or some other large number?
I'm sure over half a million people in the good ol' US of A live in abject poverty.

That's correct.

Abject poverty of the kind you see in China simply doesn't exist in the US. Abject, in this case means living on less than US $2/day.

$2/day goes a lot further in some parts of the world than others, hence there being a hole in your logic.
I agree, and further, abject poverty does exist here, I've seen it. It just may be suffered primarily by people like drug addicted, mentally ill, homeless, runaways, etc. (obviously a lot of overlap in those groups).
But they all count, at least in my book.


herbertpowell


Oct 21, 2009, 6:08 PM
Post #37 of 52 (1431 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 3, 2009
Posts: 79

Re: [adatesman] Future of Acopa and CCH [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

PPP-Purchasing power parity

However, no matter how you slice it, 2 dollars a day is pretty damned poor, even in countries with a very low cost of living. I've been to some places where plenty of people struggle to eat, and are quite happy to get my table scraps from the restaurant where I just ate.


herbertpowell


Oct 21, 2009, 6:15 PM
Post #38 of 52 (1428 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 3, 2009
Posts: 79

Re: [hafilax] Future of Acopa and CCH [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

hafilax wrote:
rmsusa wrote:
In reply to:
anything is better than a model based solely on increasing profits.

I'm gonna say it again. There is no model based solely on increasing profits except in the minds of wacky ideologues.
I have very little knowledge of this kind of thing. All I know is that there a lot of people who are trying to come up with a method to evaluate the sustainability of a business. This does not preclude growth and I'm not sure that anyone really knows what it means yet. They just think that the current system is broken. Maybe I listen to too many idealogues but the current economic woes indicate to me that there is a problem.

Far too often, analysts create business forecasts and plans based on the idea that growth will continue at x rate for however long. Think of it this way. . . look at the growth rate (pre-2007) of a company like Google. You can use that to calculate exactly how long it will take for Google to rule the world (meaning they'd own everything).

But is that likely? No.

I too have heard a lot about "sustainability" measures, but it relates more to risk assessment for finance, rather than an idea of anything being broken. Risk assessment is a big deal now, a lot of people in the US got a rude awakening that growth doesn't continue forever at a fixed rate. Housing prices won't always go up. Stock prices won't always go up. Etc.


petsfed


Oct 21, 2009, 6:39 PM
Post #39 of 52 (1420 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 24, 2002
Posts: 8599

Re: [rmsusa] Future of Acopa and CCH [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

rmsusa wrote:
Most of the people who take economic health to be equivalent to economic growth seem to me to be news anchors whose currency is simplicity and sound bites (or maybe politicians).

Hate to be a cynic, but if you say that the study of economics is the study of society, say also that the people who say that economic growth = economic health work for the nightly news, then consider how many people swallow the nightly news, hook, line and sinker, you paint a very dark picture of how our economy will proceed.

I don't know how many times I've thought to myself "if only people would be rational, the world would be a much better place!", then laughed till I cried wondering if unicorns might have a similar impact.


(This post was edited by petsfed on Oct 21, 2009, 6:40 PM)


shockabuku


Oct 21, 2009, 7:37 PM
Post #40 of 52 (1400 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4868

Re: [rmsusa] Future of Acopa and CCH [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

rmsusa wrote:
In reply to:
Now think about a country like China, where over half a million people live in abject poverty. We're talking here about not having the wherewithall to buy a pair of shoes and living without clean water, refrigeration or any kind of medical care. We have a moral imperative to increase the goods and services available in a situation like that. It would be nice if every house had a toilet, and maybe a refrigerator. Producing those things means economic growth, period. This is why it's so important that the underdeveloped countries grow their economies. Remember, again, that money is just a proxy for goods & services.

In reply to:
The highlighted part is where I knew your argument was bullshit and just a cover to grab as much cash as possible for whoever's steering the wheel until the boat runs aground

Have you no conscience? Have you no empathy for the plight of fellow humans? Do you just not understand that material things are needed for a life free from disease and discomfort?

These people desperately need things to reduce infant mortality, to eliminate intestinal parasites, to fill their teeth when they rot, to prevent death from bacterial infection. The only way to make this happen is to make the stuff they need to bring it about. That means clean water, refrigeration for food, wastewater treatment, etc. Where does this stuff come from? It doesn't materialize out of thin air and when it does get produced, the economy, by definition, will grow.

What a cold-hearted statement!

Do I have a conscience? Yes. And I've seen abject poverty, it clearly sucks. Whole families living in huts made out of sticks and scrap plastic with dirt floors and the animals, if there are any, walking in and out of the huts. Guess what? Big business doesn't give a shit if they aren't making money off it, and you don't make money by selling shit to poor people.


herbertpowell


Oct 21, 2009, 8:21 PM
Post #41 of 52 (1374 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 3, 2009
Posts: 79

Re: [shockabuku] Future of Acopa and CCH [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

shockabuku wrote:
rmsusa wrote:
In reply to:
Now think about a country like China, where over half a million people live in abject poverty. We're talking here about not having the wherewithall to buy a pair of shoes and living without clean water, refrigeration or any kind of medical care. We have a moral imperative to increase the goods and services available in a situation like that. It would be nice if every house had a toilet, and maybe a refrigerator. Producing those things means economic growth, period. This is why it's so important that the underdeveloped countries grow their economies. Remember, again, that money is just a proxy for goods & services.

In reply to:
The highlighted part is where I knew your argument was bullshit and just a cover to grab as much cash as possible for whoever's steering the wheel until the boat runs aground

Have you no conscience? Have you no empathy for the plight of fellow humans? Do you just not understand that material things are needed for a life free from disease and discomfort?

These people desperately need things to reduce infant mortality, to eliminate intestinal parasites, to fill their teeth when they rot, to prevent death from bacterial infection. The only way to make this happen is to make the stuff they need to bring it about. That means clean water, refrigeration for food, wastewater treatment, etc. Where does this stuff come from? It doesn't materialize out of thin air and when it does get produced, the economy, by definition, will grow.

What a cold-hearted statement!

Do I have a conscience? Yes. And I've seen abject poverty, it clearly sucks. Whole families living in huts made out of sticks and scrap plastic with dirt floors and the animals, if there are any, walking in and out of the huts. Guess what? Big business doesn't give a shit if they aren't making money off it, and you don't make money by selling shit to poor people.

Actually, there is a huge amount of money to be made by "selling shit to poor people". It's called the "bottom of the pyramid". Think about Walmart, but on a HUGE scale.

A great example is Tata Motors. They released a US $2500 car! That is the lowest priced production car. That opens up a huge market of people that never would have been able to afford a car before.

And clearly, it is working for Tata. . . considering they now own Jaguar, Land Rover, and Daiwoo Commercial Vehicles.


vegastradguy


Oct 21, 2009, 11:39 PM
Post #42 of 52 (1333 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 28, 2002
Posts: 5919

Re: [rmsusa] Future of Acopa and CCH [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

rmsusa wrote:
hafilax wrote:
rmsusa wrote:
In reply to:
Acopa is an American company based in Las Vegas with a factory in Mexico. They bought an existing factory in 2003

That's interesting to know. So Dario sold Acopa, Equipo Deportivo, SA de CV to Acopa International, LLC? Did it happen just after the accident?
I don't really know much but there's a brief blurb on the history of the company at their website in the 'about us' link.
http://www.acopausa.com/

I've certainly seen the blurb, which doesn't say much about the relationship between the two companies. It's a PR piece, meant for public consumption.

Acopa, Mexico is more than just the factory. It's a company and a brand of climbing shoe that's been sold since the early 90's. I don't know exactly who owns the intellectual property and how distribution rights are divided now. Guess I'll ask Dario at summer OR.

Think of Acopa International as a separate company from Dario's manufacturing facility in Mexico- his facility is the sole manufacturer for Acopa shoes, but if i understand correctly, and i may not, it is not owned by Acopa International.

Dario has, to my knowledge, some stake in Acopa International, but the majority is held by the Bachar and Karafa families.

Regardless, you can expect Acopa to go on- as they should, Bachar wouldnt have it any other way.


nattfodd


Oct 22, 2009, 6:26 AM
Post #43 of 52 (1289 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 23, 2009
Posts: 85

Re: [hafilax] Future of Acopa and CCH [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

hafilax wrote:
Acopa plans on continuing.
http://supertopo.com/...a_What_happens_to_it

Not so sure anymore (that link is now a bit old), as all the stores I went to in Utah at the beginning of the month had their Acopas heavily discounted (which allowed me to pick up a pair of JB for 79$), it seems dealers are getting rid of their stocks.

It certainly would be a shame if they went out of business.


shockabuku


Oct 22, 2009, 7:20 AM
Post #44 of 52 (1269 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4868

Re: [herbertpowell] Future of Acopa and CCH [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

If you can afford a $2500 car, you're not the poor that I was referring to. I'm talking about the people who can't afford underwear.


pfwein


Oct 22, 2009, 7:25 AM
Post #45 of 52 (1266 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 8, 2009
Posts: 353

Re: [nattfodd] Future of Acopa and CCH [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

nattfodd wrote:
hafilax wrote:
Acopa plans on continuing.
http://supertopo.com/...a_What_happens_to_it

Not so sure anymore (that link is now a bit old), as all the stores I went to in Utah at the beginning of the month had their Acopas heavily discounted (which allowed me to pick up a pair of JB for 79$), it seems dealers are getting rid of their stocks.

It certainly would be a shame if they went out of business.

I agree, I got my first pair of Acopa's recently and love them. I hope the guys/gals in charge there can keep it together.


rmsusa


Oct 22, 2009, 11:04 AM
Post #46 of 52 (1209 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 24, 2004
Posts: 1017

Re: [shockabuku] Future of Acopa and CCH [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
Do I have a conscience? Yes. And I've seen abject poverty, it clearly sucks. Whole families living in huts made out of sticks and scrap plastic with dirt floors and the animals, if there are any, walking in and out of the huts.

Then why, in heaven's name, do you write as if you don't?

Let's all get together and help these people lift themselves up. You ought to support businesses that are helping build local infrastructure and bring basic necessities to these people. The way out isn't handouts. The way out is commerce. Period.


shockabuku


Oct 22, 2009, 1:11 PM
Post #47 of 52 (1164 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4868

Re: [rmsusa] Future of Acopa and CCH [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

rmsusa wrote:
In reply to:
Do I have a conscience? Yes. And I've seen abject poverty, it clearly sucks. Whole families living in huts made out of sticks and scrap plastic with dirt floors and the animals, if there are any, walking in and out of the huts.

Then why, in heaven's name, do you write as if you don't?

Let's all get together and help these people lift themselves up. You ought to support businesses that are helping build local infrastructure and bring basic necessities to these people. The way out isn't handouts. The way out is commerce. Period.

Maybe you should stop reading like a bleeding heart.

Anyway, if I saw any businesses doing anything for these type of communities I would support them. But I've never seen that. I see businesses coming into areas where they can make money. That's it. So don't expect me to believe that big business in general has the welfare of the world as their motivating factor because I won't buy that.


rmsusa


Oct 22, 2009, 2:16 PM
Post #48 of 52 (1135 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 24, 2004
Posts: 1017

Re: [shockabuku] Future of Acopa and CCH [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
Anyway, if I saw any businesses doing anything for these type of communities I would support them. But I've never seen that. I see businesses coming into areas where they can make money. That's it. So don't expect me to believe that big business in general has the welfare of the world as their motivating factor because I won't buy that.

Did you read the example of Tata and the $2500 automobile a few postings back?

Have you heard of doing well while doing good?

People are complex and rarely have single motivations. Businesses, composed of people, are the same.


larryd


Oct 22, 2009, 2:25 PM
Post #49 of 52 (1126 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 15, 2003
Posts: 77

Re: [nattfodd] Future of Acopa and CCH [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

nattfodd wrote:
hafilax wrote:
Acopa plans on continuing.
http://supertopo.com/...a_What_happens_to_it

Not so sure anymore (that link is now a bit old), as all the stores I went to in Utah at the beginning of the month had their Acopas heavily discounted (which allowed me to pick up a pair of JB for 79$), it seems dealers are getting rid of their stocks.

Acopa is staying around-- I just talked with some folks there and there is no plan to close up shop. New models for 2010 are about to come out...


tarsier


Oct 22, 2009, 2:37 PM
Post #50 of 52 (1114 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 6, 2003
Posts: 127

Re: [Durin] Future of Acopa and CCH [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Do a search through the Secretary of States of Nevada and Wyoming and you can find the legal entities and agents' contact information. Then you can get financing and arrange to purchase the businesses and revive them.

First page Previous page 1 2 3 Next page Last page  View All

Forums : Climbing Information : Gear Heads

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook