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Myxomatosis
Oct 30, 2009, 3:17 AM
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Im not really a beginner nor have I ever had this problem but I was told a story of it happening and I was wondering what options you had. I have a few ideas but I dont think they would be considered very safe (but perhaps thats your only option)
Heres the situation..
You turn up at a crag, no guide book, with a 50m rope.
You accidently do choose a 60m sport route (so no trad gear).
You are belaying your partner and you suddenly find yourself at end of the rope. You have tied a knot in the end (not to hard to see your nearly at the end, so quick thinking just in case), so its not going to pass through the belay device. You have only 2m's of slack since your climber took the whipper onto the bolt and climbed back up to the bolt (hanger)
How would you get your partner to the ground?
Here are the options of what gear you have....
1. Prusik cord, few locking biners and your ATC (and anything else someone climbing sport might have close by on the ground) but say your partner has no PAS device or sling, just two quick draws.
2. Another 50m rope, some locking biners, partner still no PAS, just some draws.
3. Whats the minimum amount of gear you could use to get him down?
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clausti
Oct 30, 2009, 3:24 AM
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your partner sacks up and downclimbs.
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caughtinside
Oct 30, 2009, 3:31 AM
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If you can't get off a sport route you've got problems.
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dan2see
Oct 30, 2009, 3:38 AM
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It's easy for your partner to get out this.
First, you simul-climb up the the first bolt (or more likely the second one), and clove your harness to it.
Now you're on a hanging belay, so you can lower your leader from the top anchor.
When he's back on the ground, he unties, and goes home in a snit because your forget your guidebook.
How do you get back down? I donno -- that's up to you!
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uni_jim
Oct 30, 2009, 3:41 AM
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SIMUL-CLIMB!!! your on bolts, just go fer it!
BTW: yer gonna die!
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curt
Oct 30, 2009, 4:01 AM
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Myxomatosis wrote: Im not really a beginner nor have I ever had this problem but I was told a story of it happening and I was wondering what options you had. I have a few ideas but I dont think they would be considered very safe (but perhaps thats your only option) Heres the situation.. You turn up at a crag, no guide book, with a 50m rope. You accidently do choose a 60m sport route (so no trad gear). You are belaying your partner and you suddenly find yourself at end of the rope. You have tied a knot in the end (not to hard to see your nearly at the end, so quick thinking just in case), so its not going to pass through the belay device. You have only 2m's of slack since your climber took the whipper onto the bolt and climbed back up to the bolt (hanger) How would you get your partner to the ground? Here are the options of what gear you have.... 1. Prusik cord, few locking biners and your ATC (and anything else someone climbing sport might have close by on the ground) but say your partner has no PAS device or sling, just two quick draws. 2. Another 50m rope, some locking biners, partner still no PAS, just some draws. 3. Whats the minimum amount of gear you could use to get him down?
Untie the knot in your end of the rope and let go of it. Your partner is now down--and you've used no extra gear. If it's an additional requirement that your partner lives, you may want to have a plan B.
Curt
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Myxomatosis
Oct 30, 2009, 4:04 AM
Post #7 of 35
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I guess you could Simu-climb and walk off.
Or have your partner down climb half way and leave a bail biner....
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grover
Oct 30, 2009, 4:15 AM
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Have the leader fall repeatedly until the rope stretches 10 meters.
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airscape
Oct 30, 2009, 9:21 AM
Post #9 of 35
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Myxomatosis wrote: Here are the options of what gear you have.... 1. Prusik cord, few locking biners and your ATC (and anything else someone climbing sport might have close by on the ground) but say your partner has no PAS device or sling, just two quick draws. 2. Another 50m rope, some locking biners, partner still no PAS, just some draws. 3. Whats the minimum amount of gear you could use to get him down?
Why would you have another rope with you?
If I was the climber in that situation I would unclip my last draw, fall to the next draw, unclip etc etc.
Until it's not safe to do so anymore. But by then you would already be low enough to be lowered. by your belayer.
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cantbuymefriends
Oct 30, 2009, 11:17 AM
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Since you started the climb with only one 50 m rope on what you thought was a 50 m climb, I assume that the original plan was to walk off from the top.
Then:
Option 1, simul-climb till first climber reach anchor, then have him belay second to top. Walk off.
Option 2, if you can't simul-climb. Climber 1 builds an anchor in the 2 topmost bolts, belays up the second, and then continues to the top.
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johnwesely
Oct 30, 2009, 11:54 AM
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cantbuymefriends wrote: Since you started the climb with only one 50 m rope on what you thought was a 50 m climb, I assume that the original plan was to walk off from the top.
I am pretty sure he means it is a 30m route, requiring a 60m rope to be lowered.
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airscape
Oct 30, 2009, 12:03 PM
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I don't think most sport climbers even know what simul climbing is. 
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colatownkid
Oct 30, 2009, 12:08 PM
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Myxomatosis wrote: Im not really a beginner nor have I ever had this problem but I was told a story of it happening and I was wondering what options you had. I have a few ideas but I dont think they would be considered very safe (but perhaps thats your only option) Heres the situation.. You turn up at a crag, no guide book, with a 50m rope. You accidently do choose a 60m sport route (so no trad gear). You are belaying your partner and you suddenly find yourself at end of the rope. You have tied a knot in the end (not to hard to see your nearly at the end, so quick thinking just in case), so its not going to pass through the belay device. You have only 2m's of slack since your climber took the whipper onto the bolt and climbed back up to the bolt (hanger) How would you get your partner to the ground? Here are the options of what gear you have.... 1. Prusik cord, few locking biners and your ATC (and anything else someone climbing sport might have close by on the ground) but say your partner has no PAS device or sling, just two quick draws. 2. Another 50m rope, some locking biners, partner still no PAS, just some draws. 3. Whats the minimum amount of gear you could use to get him down?
wait, how tall is this route? 30m or 60m? i assume you are talking about belaying your partner on lead, correct? do you run out of rope when your partner is leading, or after they have clipped the anchor and are being lowered?
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cantbuymefriends
Oct 30, 2009, 1:07 PM
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johnwesely wrote: cantbuymefriends wrote: Since you started the climb with only one 50 m rope on what you thought was a 50 m climb, I assume that the original plan was to walk off from the top. I am pretty sure he means it is a 30m route, requiring a 60m rope to be lowered. 
Otherwise, including distance from last bolt to anchor, length of QD, rope stretch and whatnot, he would be able to lower the climber until at least a safe "jump distance" from the ground.
(This post was edited by cantbuymefriends on Oct 30, 2009, 1:10 PM)
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jaablink
Oct 30, 2009, 1:18 PM
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I don’t like this game. Sport climbing is too technical for me. Cant we just go with Curts answer… and skip plan B
curt wrote: Untie the knot in your end of the rope and let go of it. Your partner is now down--and you've used no extra gear. If it's an additional requirement that your partner lives, you may want to have a plan B. Curt |
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angry
Oct 30, 2009, 1:25 PM
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In an emergency, fix the rope and rap to the ground on a single bolt. Then hike around to the top with your second rope (why you brought a second rope, who knows) and rescue the first rope.
Simuling would be the fastest and safest way to fix the situation though.
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lena_chita
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Oct 30, 2009, 1:45 PM
Post #17 of 35
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Myxomatosis wrote: Im not really a beginner nor have I ever had this problem but I was told a story of it happening and I was wondering what options you had. I have a few ideas but I dont think they would be considered very safe (but perhaps thats your only option) Heres the situation.. You turn up at a crag, no guide book, with a 50m rope. You accidently do choose a 60m sport route (so no trad gear). You are belaying your partner and you suddenly find yourself at end of the rope. You have tied a knot in the end (not to hard to see your nearly at the end, so quick thinking just in case), so its not going to pass through the belay device. You have only 2m's of slack since your climber took the whipper onto the bolt and climbed back up to the bolt (hanger) How would you get your partner to the ground? Here are the options of what gear you have.... 1. Prusik cord, few locking biners and your ATC (and anything else someone climbing sport might have close by on the ground) but say your partner has no PAS device or sling, just two quick draws. 2. Another 50m rope, some locking biners, partner still no PAS, just some draws. 3. Whats the minimum amount of gear you could use to get him down?
Something doesn't seem right in this scenario. This is a single -pitch sport route, e.i if it requires 60 m rope to climb it, the route is no longer than 30m, so you can't possibly have only 2 m left while your partner is still climbing.
Down-climbing seems to be the easiest option.
Or down-climb a couple of bolts and "bail" on a a bolt that is <25m to the ground, using a bail 'biner or a length of webbing.
Or, climb all the way to the anchors, go on direct, and ask someone to tie a second rope to your rope to pull it up and rappel on two ropes. it is a sport crag, there's bound to be someone else there.
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kachoong
Oct 30, 2009, 1:47 PM
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Hop in a time machine... go back to the 90's ...where you belong! No-one climbs on 50m ropes anymore! 
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Myxomatosis
Oct 30, 2009, 1:55 PM
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Well two ropes are easy to have at the crag. I sometimes bring one along with my partner.
Well the idea was that you didnt have any beta of the route... so you didnt know if it was 30 or 50 or 60m's... I dont know how else you would end up in this situation.
The story I was told was that a german couple were climbing and the rope passed through the ATC (girl belaying) and she was holding onto the end for dear life while pulling her partner down. Apparently both made it away safely as there were other people at the crag to help them.
Not that I have ever been dumb enough to get into this situation,
It just got me thinking how you could get out of this cluster fuck. 
Seems to simul climb up so your partner could finish the rope, then build an anchour with the draws and belay you up from there and walk off would be the easiest and safe way to get out.
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the1esteban
Oct 30, 2009, 1:55 PM
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grover wrote: Have the leader fall repeatedly until the rope stretches 10 meters.
This one made me laugh because I'm sure there's someone out there that will try this.
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blueeyedclimber
Oct 30, 2009, 2:20 PM
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Myxomatosis wrote: You turn up at a crag, no guide book, with a 50m rope. You accidently do choose a 60m sport route (so no trad gear).
At a sport crag? A 60 m climb? NO such thing. Did you mean a 30 m climb, requiring a 60 m rope? In any case, lower to the lowest bolt you can. Climber clips in direct. Belayer goes off belay. Climber pulls rope, clips into leaver biner, belayer goes back on belay and then lowers. There are a couple other options as well, but I will let you figure them out.
If you do indeed find a sport crag with 60 m climbs, let us know, so we can all bring our 120 m ropes. 
Josh
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Myxomatosis
Oct 30, 2009, 2:32 PM
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blueeyedclimber wrote: Myxomatosis wrote: You turn up at a crag, no guide book, with a 50m rope. You accidently do choose a 60m sport route (so no trad gear). At a sport crag? A 60 m climb? NO such thing. Did you mean a 30 m climb, requiring a 60 m rope? In any case, lower to the lowest bolt you can. Climber clips in direct. Belayer goes off belay. Climber pulls rope, clips into leaver biner, belayer goes back on belay and then lowers. There are a couple other options as well, but I will let you figure them out. If you do indeed find a sport crag with 60 m climbs, let us know, so we can all bring our 120 m ropes. Josh
Hey mate.. read the post above... Its not like I actually pre thought of this silly state of affairs, just wondering what you would/could do.
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dudemanbu
Oct 30, 2009, 2:41 PM
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blueeyedclimber wrote: Myxomatosis wrote: You turn up at a crag, no guide book, with a 50m rope. You accidently do choose a 60m sport route (so no trad gear). At a sport crag? A 60 m climb? NO such thing. Did you mean a 30 m climb, requiring a 60 m rope? In any case, lower to the lowest bolt you can. Climber clips in direct. Belayer goes off belay. Climber pulls rope, clips into leaver biner, belayer goes back on belay and then lowers. There are a couple other options as well, but I will let you figure them out. If you do indeed find a sport crag with 60 m climbs, let us know, so we can all bring our 120 m ropes. Josh
Jumbo love is almost 80 meters 
But if you can climb that to nearly the top, i'd say your safest way off is to just ask the camera guy to rap down a little further to you and tie you in.
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blueeyedclimber
Oct 30, 2009, 2:43 PM
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Myxomatosis wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: Myxomatosis wrote: You turn up at a crag, no guide book, with a 50m rope. You accidently do choose a 60m sport route (so no trad gear). At a sport crag? A 60 m climb? NO such thing. Did you mean a 30 m climb, requiring a 60 m rope? In any case, lower to the lowest bolt you can. Climber clips in direct. Belayer goes off belay. Climber pulls rope, clips into leaver biner, belayer goes back on belay and then lowers. There are a couple other options as well, but I will let you figure them out. If you do indeed find a sport crag with 60 m climbs, let us know, so we can all bring our 120 m ropes. Josh Hey mate.. read the post above... Its not like I actually pre thought of this silly state of affairs, just wondering what you would/could do.
Hey, if you're not going to clearly think out your posts, then why should I read any of the ridiculoso following it?
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kachoong
Oct 30, 2009, 3:04 PM
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blueeyedclimber wrote: Myxomatosis wrote: You turn up at a crag, no guide book, with a 50m rope. You accidently do choose a 60m sport route (so no trad gear). At a sport crag? A 60 m climb? NO such thing. Did you mean a 30 m climb, requiring a 60 m rope? In any case, lower to the lowest bolt you can. Climber clips in direct. Belayer goes off belay. Climber pulls rope, clips into leaver biner, belayer goes back on belay and then lowers. There are a couple other options as well, but I will let you figure them out. If you do indeed find a sport crag with 60 m climbs, let us know, so we can all bring our 120 m ropes. Josh
Couldn't resist... that made me think of Yoda... [yoda] Clip in direct you can... belayer off belay he must... his rope the climber pulls... into leaver biner he must clip...[/yoda] 
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