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oldcolombodog
Nov 4, 2009, 6:06 AM
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Dear Jay,
I apologize for giving you the wrong impression. Should not have led you on that way. Please don't call people names. Someone will get their feelings hurt sooner or later. I think this wouldn't be the first time I've missed a point by a country mile. But how long is a country mile anyways? Longer than a city mile?
I keep a rope log because I keep a rope log. Posted this to see what others do and think on that topic. If my rope gets a lot of falls FF1 or better I'm not going to be happy with that rope. Hypothetically should a rope of mine accumulate ten falls of that nature I will seriously consider it's retirement. It will probably not happen though. I inspect my rope before every climb when I flake it out. Physical inspection is in all likleyhood what will retire any given rope of mine. But I still keep rope logs. Maybe someday I'll stop doing that. Can't we be friends in the meantime?
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oldcolombodog
Nov 4, 2009, 6:15 AM
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the1esteban wrote: oldcolombodog wrote: the1esteban wrote: hafilax wrote: Wouldn't a rope log release all kinds of toxic fumes? Yes. That is why you keep the log and the rope in different rooms. Also, make sure you use a special Rope Log Pen. PM me if you need one and I won't charge you much (S&H not included). Sweetness, I've been looking for those. Do you also have logbooks for the pens themselves? Kinda like to keep track of what that pen has been doing... My only Q is what should I use to log the ropelog pen log? Another rope log pen? If so I'll need more pens and more logs. Shit man, i don't know...that sounds more complicated than trying to explain why you would use a rope log on rc.com...
Yeah I know huh?
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jt512
Nov 4, 2009, 6:22 AM
Post #78 of 120
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oldcolombodog wrote: I keep a rope log because I keep a rope log. Posted this to see what others do and think on that topic. If my rope gets a lot of falls FF1 or better I'm not going to be happy with that rope. Hypothetically should a rope of mine accumulate ten falls of that nature I will seriously consider it's retirement.
Look, you are completely full of shit. The chances are that in your entire climbing career you will never take a single fall greater than FF1, never mind 10 of them on a single rope. If you want me, Lena, and others off your back, then just admit that you've been talking out of your ass throughout this entire thread.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Nov 4, 2009, 6:29 AM)
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justroberto
Nov 4, 2009, 7:01 AM
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oldcolombodog wrote: A good example of a factor one would be twenty feet up you place a second piece. While placing lets say you step in batshit and slip and fall before you have clipped. The piece below holds your fall and you fall to the same elevation of your belayer. In reply to: Hopefully this was the second pitch and not the first.
If you were a recreational climber and didn't know if you should retire your rope were it not for your rope log, maybe this ain't the 'sport' for you.
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oldcolombodog
Nov 4, 2009, 7:18 AM
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Please don't send anybody over to beat me up Jay. I wasn't aware there was a mob after me. All this has gotten out of hand. I take it that you meant to say that you do not keep a rope log. I get it.
I hope I never rack up any falls greater than FF1. I'm honestly a bit terrified of such a fall. Sorry for getting you so agitated big guy. Show me where I've been talking out my ass and I'll consider your demands. I'm pretty open to laying it out on the table for you to see. Maybe you misunderstood me, or are you just irked because I you think I judge you for not having a log? If so you are way off base. I was interested but I don't actually care...
I'm not mad at you Jay. It's okay man. 
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airscape
Nov 4, 2009, 7:40 AM
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I might just be way off here, but where exactly in the rope booklet or on any of the rope websites does it say: Do not take more than X number of >FF1 falls. ?
I'm sure if it was an issue they would have told us.
As far as I know it only says retire after a FF2 fall.
And also in a FF1 fall I'm sure the pro and the belay system absorb alot of the energy in any case.
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oldcolombodog
Nov 4, 2009, 7:46 AM
Post #82 of 120
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Try to read up before you start spouting ridiculous and mean things. I haven't made too many posts here so it'll only take a sec. What gave you the idea that I can't inspect a rope? Give specific quotes from me in this post to back up your spray or you end up looking like more of jackass than a dude who keeps rope logs for no apparent reason. You quoted me "hopefully this was the second pitch and not the first" . Doesn't that seem to reason that I know you would typically deck on a FF1 fall on most first pitches? I can do math.
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oldcolombodog
Nov 4, 2009, 8:08 AM
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airscape wrote: I might just be way off here, but where exactly in the rope booklet or on any of the rope websites does it say: Do not take more than X number of >FF1 falls. ? I'm sure if it was an issue they would have told us. As far as I know it only says retire after a FF2 fall. And also in a FF1 fall I'm sure the pro and the belay system absorb alot of the energy in any case.
You are correct. Nowhere does it say to retire a rope after X number of FF1 falls.
From what I know all UIAA certified ropes are certified to take at least 5 FF2 falls. Retiring a rope is a bit of a personal decision as you can see here. My maxim 10.5 bipattern is rated at 10 falls. I just don't feel like testing that out. Someone asked at what point was logging falls meaningful to me and my ropes. I gave my answer of racking up a bunch of falls greater than FF1. Then all hell broke loose. Rope retirement, falling, and logs are a touchy and personal subject. Rope inspections are of course mandatory. Decide for yourself when to retire a rope. Most rope booklets do however recommend a rope log. Again, do what you think is right. I'm sure you are aware of all this but I just can't give short replies sometimes...
(This post was edited by oldcolombodog on Nov 4, 2009, 8:22 AM)
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kriso9tails
Nov 4, 2009, 9:39 AM
Post #84 of 120
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oldcolombodog wrote: Show me where I've been talking out my ass and I'll consider your demands. I'm pretty open to laying it out on the table for you to see. Maybe you misunderstood me...
Having read through this thread in a fit of insomnia, I'm afraid I don't understand where the practical value of keeping this log ever shows itself.
I'm also not sure why you would post this:
In reply to: How about this. If I look over and see my belayer after a fall then it was pretty damn close to a FF1. If after a fall I look up and see my belayer then it was better than a FF1. Otherwise I can only guesstimate.
There are quite a few cases where this isn't true, not even for coming up with an approximate value. What practical value do your guesstimated figures have? Furthermore, it seems at the rate at which your rope experiences fall factors of one or higher, it should be fairly easy to remember off the top of your head.
I have nothing against you keeping a rope log -- I mean, why would I? -- but I neither do I see any of the supposed pros.
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lena_chita
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Nov 4, 2009, 2:00 PM
Post #85 of 120
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oldcolombodog wrote: I keep a rope log because I keep a rope log. Posted this to see what others do and think on that topic.
I think you got an answer to that. The more experienced climbers think it is not a very useful exercise, and you have the explanations why. A poll might have been a better option to get the numbers.
You are, of course, free to keep a rope log, a diary, a lover on a side, and anything else you might want, regardless of what others think of it. But if you do keep records, you would be better off keeping a climbing/training log instead of a rope log.
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notapplicable
Nov 4, 2009, 2:01 PM
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oldcolombodog wrote: No worries notapplicable. From your posts it seems like your a good dude. I apologize for my poor communication skills. I can see that I could come off as a know it all or something. I guess I overdo it sometimes typing or saying too much in great detail. Trying to find the middle ground of saying enough to be understood.
Hey, no problem man. It sounded like a "what, are you stupid?" type of reply and I got a bit excited. My bad.
oldcolombodog wrote: I keep a rope log because I keep a rope log.
And FWIW, this^ is the correct answer. I think what everyone is objecting to is the notion that such a log can be meaningful in determining when a rope needs to be retired, not the simple fact that you keep the log.
You do it because you want/like too. Done and done.
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IsayAutumn
Nov 4, 2009, 3:19 PM
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And don't worry about the cranky know-it-alls with thousands of posts on this site. Your best bet is to ignore them. Everything they have to offer, they've already said at one point or another in some forum. So now most of them just cruise, looking to give people a hard time. Other than searching for their past posts, which can be useful, you can basically ignore them.
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jt512
Nov 4, 2009, 4:29 PM
Post #89 of 120
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airscape wrote: I might just be way off here, but where exactly in the rope booklet or on any of the rope websites does it say: Do not take more than X number of >FF1 falls. ? I'm sure if it was an issue they would have told us. As far as I know it only says retire after a FF2 fall.
It says neither. It says to retire your rope after a single "severe" fall, or words to that effect. A factor-1 fall is pretty severe: its maximum impact force is theoretically about 80% of that of a factor-2 fall. So I'd consider retiring my rope after one factor-1 fall, depending on what other use it had seen.
Jay
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jmeizis
Nov 4, 2009, 5:37 PM
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I've been watching this thread since I responded on the first page and Jay, you're the only person who's consistently decided to jump down this person's throat because of a comment or two that were not even directly relevant to the topic they posted about in the first place. Go pop a Vicodin or something so you can ease the tension. Seriously did you get beat up so much as a kid that you feel the need to be a loud mouth everywhere you go to prove how superior you are. STFU for once. Find a lady friend (boy friend?) to help relax you. Yeah, people say some dumb shit, you're not exempted, so don't take it so seriously when it happens. Now before you throw a shit fit why don't you go read a book or watch TV for a little while and calm down.
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jt512
Nov 4, 2009, 5:54 PM
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jmeizis wrote: I've been watching this thread since I responded on the first page and Jay, you're the only person who's consistently decided to jump down this person's throat because of a comment or two that were not even directly relevant to the topic they posted about in the first place. Go pop a Vicodin or something so you can ease the tension. Seriously did you get beat up so much as a kid that you feel the need to be a loud mouth everywhere you go to prove how superior you are. STFU for once. Find a lady friend (boy friend?) to help relax you. Yeah, people say some dumb shit, you're not exempted, so don't take it so seriously when it happens. Now before you throw a shit fit why don't you go read a book or watch TV for a little while and calm down.
Speak for yourself.
Jay
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markc
Nov 4, 2009, 6:05 PM
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IsayAutumn wrote: And don't worry about the cranky know-it-alls with thousands of posts on this site. Your best bet is to ignore them.
Years ago I went to Seneca fairly late in the season. My friend forgot his guide book, so we stopped in to the Gendarme to pick up a new one. The former owner chatted for a minute, sold us the book, and said good bye. As we hit the door, he said, "Just remember - if you get benighted at Seneca it's only an emergency for you." Just because the advice has an edge to it doesn't make it false. I personally apply that to some of the seasoned members of this site. YMMV.
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IsayAutumn
Nov 4, 2009, 6:13 PM
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markc wrote: IsayAutumn wrote: And don't worry about the cranky know-it-alls with thousands of posts on this site. Your best bet is to ignore them. Years ago I went to Seneca fairly late in the season. My friend forgot his guide book, so we stopped in to the Gendarme to pick up a new one. The former owner chatted for a minute, sold us the book, and said good bye. As we hit the door, he said, "Just remember - if you get benighted at Seneca it's only an emergency for you." Just because the advice has an edge to it doesn't make it false. I personally apply that to some of the seasoned members of this site. YMMV.
Interesting vignette, especially since I climb at Seneca also. And I agree with you. But the crankiness here still gets on my nerves, even (and especially) when the general advice is sound.
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the_leech
Nov 4, 2009, 6:32 PM
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oldcolombodog wrote: Dear Jay, I apologize for giving you the wrong impression. Should not have led you on that way. Please don't call people names. Someone will get their feelings hurt sooner or later... Can't we be friends in the meantime?
WAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!
What a pussy.
Thank you, Jay. You are one of the few people who consistently stands up for the cause of culling the n00bs.
Spread the attitude of discouragement wherever you go.
Keep it up.
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airscape
Nov 4, 2009, 7:01 PM
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jt512 wrote: airscape wrote: I might just be way off here, but where exactly in the rope booklet or on any of the rope websites does it say: Do not take more than X number of >FF1 falls. ? I'm sure if it was an issue they would have told us. As far as I know it only says retire after a FF2 fall. It says neither. It says to retire your rope after a single "severe" fall, or words to that effect. A factor-1 fall is pretty severe: its maximum impact force is theoretically about 80% of that of a factor-2 fall. So I'd consider retiring my rope after one factor-1 fall, depending on what other use it had seen. Jay
It says in my brand spank me new Beal Topgun II 10.5mm rope in blue coloration standard 60m rope booklet : "the rope must be retired earlier: if it has held a major fall approaching fall factor 2."
EDIT2: So what does approaching FF2 mean???
Those rope bastards must get their shit straight.
Edit: Beal site interesting stuff It actually says that even from high up the Fall factors are generaly quite high.
(This post was edited by airscape on Nov 4, 2009, 7:17 PM)
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jt512
Nov 4, 2009, 7:09 PM
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airscape wrote: jt512 wrote: airscape wrote: I might just be way off here, but where exactly in the rope booklet or on any of the rope websites does it say: Do not take more than X number of >FF1 falls. ? I'm sure if it was an issue they would have told us. As far as I know it only says retire after a FF2 fall. It says neither. It says to retire your rope after a single "severe" fall, or words to that effect. A factor-1 fall is pretty severe: its maximum impact force is theoretically about 80% of that of a factor-2 fall. So I'd consider retiring my rope after one factor-1 fall, depending on what other use it had seen. Jay It says in my brand spank me new Beal Topgun II 10.5mm rope in blue coloration standard 60m rope booklet : "the rope must be retired earlier: if it has held a major fall approaching fall factor 2." So it says approaching fall factor 2. As far as I can see it is very difficult to reach a greater that FF1 after the first clip. The only way to even come close is to fall directly on the belay, and then it usually is a FF2. So given that one cannot really get close to FF2 without actually doing a FF2, I would say that is what the booklet says. 
Except that your logic is wrong. The bolded statement is patently false.
Jay
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airscape
Nov 4, 2009, 7:14 PM
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My maths was a little screwy... sarry.
That is true...
Let me edit that post.
Better?
(This post was edited by airscape on Nov 4, 2009, 7:17 PM)
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kriso9tails
Nov 4, 2009, 7:17 PM
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airscape wrote: As far as I can see it is very difficult to reach a greater that FF1 after the first clip.
It doesn't seem all that difficult to me.
[edit]Never mind then; I'm just too slow.
(This post was edited by kriso9tails on Nov 4, 2009, 7:18 PM)
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oldcolombodog
Nov 4, 2009, 7:19 PM
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Hey Jay,
So I reread your edited version as well as the original. It does give the impression that I have racked up many FF1's. I can see this could piss you off seeing that I have not done any such thing. It was not my intention to communicate that. Please allow me to apologize to you and anyone else offended. Here is the previous and corrected statement.
In reply to: I seriouly consider the ropes retirement when it starts racking up falls above factor one.
I'd seriously consider the ropes retirement when it starts racking up falls above factor one.
I'll be more careful next time. Is there anything else because you said I was talking out my ass the entire thread.
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oldcolombodog
Nov 4, 2009, 7:26 PM
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the_leech wrote: oldcolombodog wrote: Dear Jay, I apologize for giving you the wrong impression. Should not have led you on that way. Please don't call people names. Someone will get their feelings hurt sooner or later... Can't we be friends in the meantime? WAAAAAAHHHHHH!!! What a pussy. Thank you, Jay. You are one of the few people who consistently stands up for the cause of culling the n00bs. Spread the attitude of discouragement wherever you go. Keep it up.
Thanks, I like you too. You're witty.
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