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jt512
Nov 4, 2009, 7:31 PM
Post #101 of 120
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airscape wrote: EDIT2: So what does approaching FF2 mean???
Well, that's the question. Like I said before, in theory, the maximum impact force in a factor-1 fall is about 80% of what it is in a factor-2 fall; so, I don't understand why, if you believe that a factor-2 fall is severe, that you would think a factor-1 fall is not.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Nov 4, 2009, 7:32 PM)
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airscape
Nov 4, 2009, 7:40 PM
Post #102 of 120
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If you free solo and take a fall you get a FF infinite which I think is pretty fycking severe.
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kriso9tails
Nov 4, 2009, 7:44 PM
Post #103 of 120
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airscape wrote: If you free solo and take a fall you get a FF infinite which I think is pretty fycking severe.
I assure you that it won't compromise the integrity of your rope in the slightest.
(This post was edited by kriso9tails on Nov 4, 2009, 7:53 PM)
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airscape
Nov 4, 2009, 7:47 PM
Post #104 of 120
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Well it might make the rope you do have die of old age in the basement or closet.
So it's all relevant.
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mountainstuss
Nov 5, 2009, 2:42 AM
Post #105 of 120
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I've got so many ropes laying around, and they are all for different things (you know how that goes).
I record the date purchased, along with any time I seriously impact the rope like a major fall with significant FF.
Other than that, I feel like I have a sense of what each rope has been through. I don't quantify it, I just know roughly whether a rope is newer or getting old etc.
I'd be curious about when other people retire their ropes. Not when they are damaged to the point of being unusable, I mean when it's not obvious.
I don't really retire mine. I just keep downgrading them. Bigwall or ice climbing cord, regular lead line, TRing only, rappelling only, and finally, for pulling trucks out of the mud.
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ptlong
Nov 5, 2009, 3:04 AM
Post #106 of 120
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Subjecting the same section of rope to repeated falls at a given maximum tension:
I retire a rope when it looks and feels "crummy".
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joshy8200
Nov 5, 2009, 4:15 AM
Post #107 of 120
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This is a hall of fame worthy thread indeed.
(This post was edited by joshy8200 on Nov 5, 2009, 4:16 AM)
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oldcolombodog
Nov 5, 2009, 6:49 AM
Post #109 of 120
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lena_chita wrote: oldcolombodog wrote: I keep a rope log because I keep a rope log. Posted this to see what others do and think on that topic. In reply to: I think you got an answer to that. Yes I did get an answer to that... A whole lot of them. In reply to: The more experienced climbers think it is not a very useful exercise, and you have the explanations why. A poll might have been a better option to get the numbers. Yeah you're right on both of those... But I liked everybody's opinions over the numbers. In reply to: You are, of course, free to keep a rope log, a diary, a lover on a side,  and anything else you might want, regardless of what others think of it. But if you do keep records, you would be better off keeping a climbing/training log instead of a rope log.Thats not bad advice considering that my rope log won't tell me when exactly to retire a rope. I will be telling the log when the rope gets retired. I think the climbing/training log is a good idea to help me improve as a climber. Thanks Lena. And I just might take a lover on the side.
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curt
Nov 5, 2009, 7:19 AM
Post #110 of 120
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I personally believe that back in the Dark Ages of climbing it may have been interesting to keep a rope log, but even then, only if something useful was going to be done with the collected data. Back in the 70's, when Stannard, Barber, Wunsch and Bragg set out to free the thirty-odd remaining aid climbs in the Gunks, Mammut (I think) provided them a free rope to use, provided they kept a complete record of the falls taken on the rope. After using the rope for a season, the rope was returned to the manufacturer for testing, to see what the effects of many falls had on the UIAA measured properties of the rope. From what I recall, the rope in question tested out to be not too different from a new rope. If rgold or anyone else recalls this particular piece of history better, please chime in.
Today, the properties of modern kernmantle ropes are so well established, with respect to rope life that going to the trouble of keeping a fastidious log seems kind of silly.
Curt
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oldcolombodog
Nov 5, 2009, 7:49 AM
Post #111 of 120
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jt512 wrote: ptlong wrote: Subjecting the same section of rope to repeated falls at a given maximum tension: [img]http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/6215/44683274.jpg[/img] So, if a rope develops a max impact force of 9 kN @ FF2, and a max impact force of 7 kN at FF1, then a factor-1 fall is still quite hard on the rope. Are your data are from falls at 5-min intervals, à la UIAA? Jay
I like your chart ptlong! I printed some up and put them with my rope logs!
What diameter rope was this? 9.5? Smaller?. I would like to know the intervals between falls as well. How important do you guys think the intervals are to rope failure? This makes me think more about the thread on fall training... What exactly does a 4.5kN fall look like here? How about for a guy who weighs in at 190lbs? I see that about 18 falls at just under 4.5kN equals failure.
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oldcolombodog
Nov 5, 2009, 7:54 AM
Post #112 of 120
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curt wrote: I personally believe that back in the Dark Ages of climbing it may have been interesting to keep a rope log, but even then, only if something useful was going to be done with the collected data. Back in the 70's, when Stannard, Barber, Wunsch and Bragg set out to free the thirty-odd remaining aid climbs in the Gunks, Mammut (I think) provided them a free rope to use, provided they kept a complete record of the falls taken on the rope. After using the rope for a season, the rope was returned to the manufacturer for testing, to see what the effects of many falls had on the UIAA measured properties of the rope. From what I recall, the rope in question tested out to be not too different from a new rope. If rgold or anyone else recalls this particular piece of history better, please chime in. Curt
I'd like to hear more about that tidbit of history too if anybody's got it.
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curt
Nov 5, 2009, 4:09 PM
Post #113 of 120
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lena_chita wrote: oldcolombodog wrote: I keep a rope log because I keep a rope log. Posted this to see what others do and think on that topic. I think you got an answer to that. The more experienced climbers think it is not a very useful exercise, and you have the explanations why. A poll might have been a better option to get the numbers. You are, of course, free to keep a rope log, a diary, a lover on a side...
Now there's a valid reason for keeping track of where your rope has been. 
Curt
(This post was edited by curt on Nov 5, 2009, 6:02 PM)
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tradmanclimbs
Nov 5, 2009, 5:09 PM
Post #114 of 120
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I don't really retire mine. I just keep downgrading them. Bigwall or ice climbing cord, regular lead line, TRing only, rappelling only, and finally, for pulling trucks out of the mud.
Quote;
This is the system that i use. Once it hits the tow rope catagory it is used for logging firewood and testing knotts and other cool climbing related tests. Amazeing how much you can learn by breaking shit with a plow truck
(This post was edited by tradmanclimbs on Nov 5, 2009, 7:07 PM)
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lena_chita
Moderator
Nov 5, 2009, 6:30 PM
Post #115 of 120
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curt wrote: lena_chita wrote: oldcolombodog wrote: I keep a rope log because I keep a rope log. Posted this to see what others do and think on that topic. I think you got an answer to that. The more experienced climbers think it is not a very useful exercise, and you have the explanations why. A poll might have been a better option to get the numbers. You are, of course, free to keep a rope log, a diary, a lover on a side...Now there's a valid reason for keeping track of where your rope has been. Curt
I am pretty sure any REAL climber will only use their retired ropes for that.
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curt
Nov 5, 2009, 7:43 PM
Post #116 of 120
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lena_chita wrote: curt wrote: lena_chita wrote: oldcolombodog wrote: I keep a rope log because I keep a rope log. Posted this to see what others do and think on that topic. I think you got an answer to that. The more experienced climbers think it is not a very useful exercise, and you have the explanations why. A poll might have been a better option to get the numbers. You are, of course, free to keep a rope log, a diary, a lover on a side...Now there's a valid reason for keeping track of where your rope has been. Curt I am pretty sure any REAL climber will only use their retired ropes for that.
That wasn't the kind of "rope" I was referring to, but I like the way you think.
Curt
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TarHeelEMT
Nov 5, 2009, 10:52 PM
Post #117 of 120
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ptlong wrote: Subjecting the same section of rope to repeated falls at a given maximum tension: [img]http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/6215/44683274.jpg[/img] I retire a rope when it looks and feels "crummy".
This would be much better if you swapped the X and Y axes.
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ptlong
Nov 5, 2009, 11:39 PM
Post #118 of 120
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TarHeelEMT wrote: ptlong wrote: Subjecting the same section of rope to repeated falls at a given maximum tension: [img]http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/6215/44683274.jpg[/img] I retire a rope when it looks and feels "crummy". This would be much better if you swapped the X and Y axes.
You think? Let's try it:
When my rope looks and feels crummy I retire it.
I dunno, it seems the same to me.
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healyje
Nov 6, 2009, 2:15 AM
Post #119 of 120
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Only on RC could a topic like this have any legs at all, let alone crack a 100 posts.
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potreroed
Nov 6, 2009, 4:39 AM
Post #120 of 120
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Hell, no, I don't keep a rope log. I just throw the thing in the dirt, step on it a few times and go climbing. I usually buy a new rope every year.
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