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munckee


Nov 4, 2001, 2:49 PM
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Another post gave me the idea to start this one. I know that there aren't enough people from St. Louis to start our own forum, so I thought I'd throw this in under the midwest title and give us a place to chat about local stuff.

Here is my first though: Are there any areas to boulder in Forest Park? I know that there was a recent Climbing article that described the various areas in central park to climb. It made me jealous because I know we have a park that is on par with central park, and we can't be that much flatter than New York City. Anybody know of anything? Man-made even?

It would be incredible to get outside occasionally, but I don't generally have time to drive a couple hours away. Does anyone know of anything else around that's worth an afternoon of entertainment?


Partner rrrADAM


Nov 4, 2001, 2:56 PM
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You should've posted this into the Regional Discussions Forum. They way to do that is to go through the Routes DBase to your state or Area within, and 'post a message relating to ...'. There's a cue there to do this. This will put it there, and link it, as well as have the Area in parenthisies.

I edited this to add that link, but it should be moved to that Forum, it's for discussions. This one is for Partner Searches.


rrrADAM

[ This Message was edited by: rrradam on 2001-11-04 14:59 ]


munckee


Nov 5, 2001, 7:21 AM
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Sorry Adam, I didn't realize that the regions below were specific to partner searches. I'll keep that in mind in the future.


drulints


Nov 5, 2001, 8:49 AM
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I know for a fact that there are places in and around St. Louis that are climbable. The probablem is that no one is posting it and there isn't any one who wants to take the initiative to plop on a pack and search for the rock. I've been here no longer than 2 months and have already found some pretty good bouldering in the parks. You just have to ask the rangers and locals who don't live in front of their computer or are too neat to do any activity outside. If you look, You will find it.


andy_lemon


Nov 5, 2001, 9:27 AM
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Did any of you guys go to Jackson Falls this weekend? You should go there if you haven't ever been.

New York can't be that awesome of a place to boulder because a group of guys from New York came down to Jackson Falls to boulder. I saw them there this weekend.


munckee


Nov 5, 2001, 1:35 PM
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drulints-I don't think that people are necessarily too lazy, they just don't know where to start. If you know of so many cool places after being here for two months, would you consider sharing them with a few of us so we can tap into the joy as well?

Andy-I wasn't saying that New York bouldering was anything spectacular, I was just saying that if there is bouldering in central park, maybe there is also some in Forrest Park...yeah, I know that my logic is way off, but it was just a thought. Maybe some of the smaller municipal parks have something? Babler st. park?

I would be greatful for anyone who is willing to share/show any places around town or just outside that might be climbing worthy.

[ This Message was edited by: munckee on 2001-11-05 13:37 ]


andy_lemon


Nov 5, 2001, 2:21 PM
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Nah, it was just a joke. New York has some pretty cool bouldering areas in town. I think they were published in this months R&I.

I would be willing to show you around Jackson Falls if you want to come down. I'm going there this weekend. I love JF's!

Just let me know. You can find directions to JF's on this site under illinois routes section.

Andy


jds100


Nov 5, 2001, 6:13 PM
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Gee, drulints, welcome to St. Louis.

Some of us have jobs, spouses, and lots of responsibilities that keep us busy, so that when we have time to climb, we choose to make the most of it by making the drive to southern Illinois (Draper's and Cedar Bluff, Jackson Falls, etc.). Also: robydonn, the Missouri admin for this website, is checking the legal status of climbing/bouldering in parks of the area, inasmuch as some climbing activity in some parks has generated some profoundly negative reaction from the authorities. The last thing we need is to give more authorities more reason to ban climbing.

Danny (munkee), I think that Upper Limits is probably the best place to hook up with other locals, and there are some 'kids' there (teens to early 20s) who are doing some bouldering, indoors and outdoors, that is sick-strong! There are climbers of all ages from the area that may be able to help you out there, too. The perception of the 'quality' of St. Louis rock might well depend on the level of difficulty at which you are climbing, too.


munckee


Nov 5, 2001, 7:00 PM
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Well, I'll admit, though unhappily, that college has taken its toll. I haven't been able to hit the rock or the gym as much as I would have liked and my level has slackened because of this. Thanks for the input though. I have been trying to hit upper limits as often as possible, but with my current schedule, I'm lucky if that is more than once a week.

Andy, Thanks for the offer, but as I said above, I can't afford the time away from my school work right now. Hopefully after christmas I'll be able to join you though. I would love to hit some real rock again!


andy_lemon


Nov 7, 2001, 9:56 AM
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Sounds great! Hope we can do that sometime. Then you can tell me about your school as well as I tell you about USI... over some beer of course.


munckee


Nov 7, 2001, 1:20 PM
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Can't beat an offer like that!!! I'll be sure to drop you an email when things die down a bit; probably next semester.

While I'm here, hey Drulints! You think you could share the places you've found a babbler so maybe the rest of us can enjoy them and help establish some routes? I realize that you feel cheated because no one else has posted any secret findings, but someone always has to be first. Maybe you'll start a snowball effect and everyone else will learn from your generosity. Just a thought because I'm interested.


drulints


Nov 12, 2001, 8:21 PM
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The key to the outdoors is being in it. Climbing is not just about doing the next move cleaner or more dynamically than the last. It is about being a part of God's great creation. There is rock in St. Louis. It just needs to be found. The only way to do that, other than buying the computer topo engines is to simply go out and search. Out of the last 5 or 6 times that I went looking I struck out about 3 or 4. Most of the time it isn't very spectacular rock but then there are those times when you strike gold. I'm sorry if I sound rough, I just think that it is funny to see so many people going to the rock gym downtown when it is 70 degrees outside. I want to encourage those of you city folk to get outside and enjoy the great beauty that we have before us. You pickin up what I'm putn' down?


andy_lemon


Nov 12, 2001, 9:27 PM
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No... not really...

I did go climbing though, Jackson Falls on Friday, Giant City on Saturday!


munckee


Nov 12, 2001, 10:32 PM
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Well, lets see...here's what I'm picking up. You strongly believe that there is decent rock to be climbed in St. Louis, in part because you have found some. You believe that every member of the St. Louis climbing community should put their free time into finding this rock. I am also picking up that once each climber finds a great area to enjoy the sport, they should keep it all to themselves because, hey, they found it. Instead of sharing what they find, people should keep it to themselves unless some other wandering soul happens upon it as well, then they can share, but only with that person.

You're right about the weather though. In fact, the great weather is the whole reason I asked the question in the first place. Here I am, looking around at the great weather and thinking "gee, it would be a great day to climb". But then I realize that the only documented climbing is at least an hour away, and most of the climbing is closer to 2 or 3 hours away. That said, I drive myself to the gym, pay way too much, and climb for an afternoon...inside.

I would love to be able to climb outside even when I only have a couple of hours to commit, but that is about all the time I have to climb. I would rather drive to the gym and pay too much, but know that I will spend my measly two hours climbing my butt off. I am a college student, and if I have any time to climb (which is rare enough as it is), I would prefer to actually spend that time climbing rather than wandering around looking for places to climb. I think it would be really cool if the people that do have a little more time to spare could share their wealth of information for the benefit of the climbing community in general, especially the members of that community who are working or are in school for many hours each week.

To make a long story short, if I knew where to climb within a short drive outside on a beautiful fall day, I would. But since I don't know where to go within a short driving distance, I prefer to spend my time climbing wherever I can rather than searching.


andy_lemon


Nov 13, 2001, 1:39 AM
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Giant City isn't 3 hours away from STL. Look in the routes section and get the driving directions. Jackson Falls is only another half an hour away from there. Also, check into Mississippi Palisades, they are aways away though


munckee


Nov 13, 2001, 9:05 AM
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No, but Carbondale is about an hour and a half away. Still way too far for a quick afternoon jaunt.


drulints


Nov 13, 2001, 11:28 AM
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Well I'm glad that you have a short temper. All I said was that St. Louis climbers shouldn't rely souly on other people's hard work in finding rock and you take offense like there is not time in the day for such nonsense. I am a grad student working full time, and i have 2 hours to go looking for rock. Sometimes I strike out but at least i don't waist my time in a crowded man made climbing gym. I just want to raise awareness that you don't have to look on the internet and mooch off of someone else's hard work just so that you can slouch off and not look for it yourself. When other people start putting climbing areas up for st. louis then i'll consider continuing to share the areas that I found. Go for it. You know you want to. I'll even give you a hint on where to start. Ask the rangers in the local parks where rock formations might be found. Don't say that you want to climb because then they'll think that you are looking for some gigantic cliff which isn't the case at all. There are some good cliffs along the missouri river (both sides). Get a bike and look around. I like taunting you guys. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


munckee


Nov 13, 2001, 11:40 AM
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I hardly think that I'm being short tempered. I think that I have stated my opinion, clearly and in a considerate manner. I simply think that you're being short-sited by keeping what you know to yourself. That said, I can see that you are unwilling to share what you have found, and quite frankly, I don't want to waste my time arguing about it. Enjoy the areas that you've found. Maybe when I can dig up some time to search for myself we'll run into each other.


drulints


Nov 13, 2001, 3:06 PM
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Anyone can understand my frustration. I have given decent directions to two decent climbing places in or near St. Louis, which is 2 more than anyone else has posted. I know that people are holding out thinking that if they tell that everyone and their monkey's uncle will be visiting the spot. Maybe that person isn't you, (so don't take offense). If you haven't looked for anyrock don't wine and complain. Shut up, go look, and tell us what you find. That's all I'm saying. And when did I say that you should keep the spots to yourself. That is exactly the opposite of what I'm trying to promote. Why whould I waiste my time on this site if that were the case. Until you post an area, don't look down your nose at me cause I'm outside while you're paying to climb. blahahahahaha


robydonn


Nov 13, 2001, 5:45 PM
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Munckee, You are hardly ill-tempered. You just want to know where, when and how to get there. Your studies are VERY important. Keep that to your heart. Meanwhile, since St. Louis weather sucks at this time, make yourself more available at Upper Limits to meet great new people. I will be going there more often myself. Just drop us a note. Someone will be there for you. You know how to get in touch with me.
Roby


jds100


Nov 13, 2001, 6:05 PM
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Drulints, your spelling and grammar make me wonder what your course of study is in graduate school. But, that aside, your self-righteous attitude will certainly not win you any friends in climbing. Inasmuch as I grew up in the St. Louis area, as did my climbing partners, I seriously question the quality of the rock you lay claim to; what level of climbing and bouldering are you doing? And, judging from your post, I must assume that you own no guidebooks and refer to no printed or online info on climbing areas, since that would make you a moocher (like the rest of us). Egads, you certainly don't want to associate with the likes of us.

Munkee, Robydonn, it will be a pleasure to encounter you at Upper Limits, and outdoors as well, whenever that may occur. I value the time I spend at Upper Limits because I know the difference between indoor climbing and training, and the outdoor experience. I get much more valuable training done indoors, in part because I don't have to drive a 5-hour round trip to do it.

Drulints: call me; I'll be more than happy to direct you to the great "hidden" spots of Carbondale and the surrounding area. First you get on highway 55 North for two hours, then...


munckee


Nov 13, 2001, 9:39 PM
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Thanks guys! I would love to meet up at the gym sometime. I promise, as soon as my academic life cools down (which it should by next semester...second semester, senior year is gonna ROCK!), I will get in touch and try to work out a time when we can meet. Maybe we'll be able to come up with a regular meeting time as well. Until then, keep in touch here on the site. I know I've been a bit of a ghost by just posting and not really seeing anyone, but like I said, that will change next semester. I'm psyched!


jds100


Nov 14, 2001, 10:46 AM
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Just for the record, there's nothing new about the areas Drulints has posted for St. Louis. These areas have been looked at for years, and with some slight exception for Washington State Park, the quality is so low that the effort required to get to these places is not even close to being rewarded. I know some people were trying to "promote" a highway roadcut as a destination a few years ago, too, and as is so often the case, one or two things happened. One: the climbing is absolutely crap, and the people who "developed" and/or "promoted" it really had no idea what they were doing. Two: private or public owners quickly banned climbing for various reasons of private property and public concern.

The climbing crag that used to be at Katy Trail was on private land, was never of particularly good quality (as per Missouri rock, the wall was in a constant state of disintegration), and was in some dispute with the State Park.

A few years ago a "real" climber who had done incredible work helping to develop southern Illinois, tried to develop Missouri areas closer to St. Louis. Ultimately, after much effort, the conclusion came down to some pretty chossy, lame areas, that had maybe 4 or 6 climbs put up at each area at the most, very short, very bad rock, uncertain or prohibited ownership/management policy, etc. etc. etc. I think the point has been made.

If the goal of one's climbing time is to get out and commune with nature, regardless of the quality and/or difficulty of the climbing and bouldering, then, sure, check out the wonders of Babler State Park, the Katy Trail, St. Francios State Park (there's a new one for ya, Dru), the roadcut on highway 30 west of I-270, Rockwoods Reservation (where climbing is illegal), and, hey, maybe some fine bouldering on the public restrooms in Forest Park. Washington State Park may offer some harder routes, but, again, the rock quality is suspect, and it won't get much taller than Upper Limits.

If a lot of climbing and/or good training within a limited amount of time is the objective, then I would suggest you go to Upper Limits. Two to four hours there, and I can be home in minutes, as needed, to get back to other responsibilities. I worked full-time throughout my undergraduate and graduate education, and I know the study load was pretty intense, so I'm not sure how Mr. Dru pulls it off, what with his GRAD-U-ATE school education goin on. With my work and family responsibilities, along with my intense desire to get better and stronger for climbing, I allocate my time quite closely. So, because more and better 'climbing' can be had indoors in St. Louis, that's what I do. Then, when I go outdoors to southern Illinois, the value of the experience is far greater.

And, Dru, hope you don't take this personally.
blahahahahaha


drulints


Nov 14, 2001, 8:02 PM
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I just came in from an afternoon of delightful weather and it was quite interesting to see the responses found regarding my latest post. I would like to ask forgiveness of those of you who took offense to what I had stated earlier. I am not a native of St. Louis and therefore do not understand the fondness that you hold for the indoor gym. I agree that it is a good workout but apart from that I feel that it is a quite lame substitute for genuine rock. I would much rather climb on crappy rock with dirt falling in my pant pockets and rock chipping away while I boulder, than climb in a fabricated gym because, quite frankly I think that it is much more adventurous. Forgive me if I am wrong but I am the only one to post rock, regardless of its quality, simply because I thought that we should enjoy it. When I saw that people would much rather talk about climbing and worry where their name stands on the "highest rated user" list than climb, it kind of makes me wonder why I even look at this site. This is why I wrote the things that I did. I promise never to blaspheme the holy name of the indoor gym. Oh yes, and the shots you took at my writing ability caught me by suprise too because I never claimed to be an English major and your right about the weather, 70 degrees in the middle of November does suck. Well anyway, you all have a nice evening.


munckee


Nov 18, 2001, 3:41 PM
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Well, I think we can all agree that maybe its time to move on to a new topic in our St. Louis area discussion.

Who's planning on climbing in the upper limits comp in January?

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