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majid_sabet
Nov 16, 2009, 5:55 PM
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IRATA have published a safety bulletin, after being informed that 3 Petzl Stop descenders have been
inspected and cracks found on the upper pulley. Click here
October 2009
http://www.irata.org/...Stop%20Descender.pdf
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johnwesely
Nov 16, 2009, 6:03 PM
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Things are truly back to normal.
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shimanilami
Nov 16, 2009, 6:08 PM
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Angry was worried about you, Majid. You should PM him to let you know you're OK.
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majid_sabet
Nov 16, 2009, 6:47 PM
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shimanilami wrote: Angry was worried about you, Majid. You should PM him to let you know you're OK.
My lady needs love
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dolphja
Nov 16, 2009, 7:00 PM
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i'm gonna get some jiffy pop and some beast light, sit back and watch this thread
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agentmm
Nov 16, 2009, 8:04 PM
Post #6 of 26
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"Consider replacing the damaged pulley"
....that's awfully insightful...
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bill413
Nov 17, 2009, 12:08 AM
Post #7 of 26
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agentmm wrote: "Consider replacing the damaged pulley" ....that's awfully insightful...
Not "replace the pulley" but "consider it."
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agentmm
Nov 17, 2009, 3:47 AM
Post #8 of 26
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People are worried about "GEAR4ROCKS" and shit like that and yet, PETZL (a huge, apparently trustworthy company) lacks the intelligence to suggest replacing a cracked pulley...
They tell their concerned customers to "consider" it though...
Baffling.
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climbingtrash
Nov 17, 2009, 4:31 AM
Post #9 of 26
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agentmm wrote: People are worried about "GEAR4ROCKS" and shit like that and yet, PETZL (a huge, apparently trustworthy company) lacks the intelligence to suggest replacing a cracked pulley... They tell their concerned customers to "consider" it though... Baffling.
Where are you reading that? At the bottom of the first page they say- "There is no risk because the performance of the Petzl stop is not affected by this crack". And on the last page at the top they say- "Remove the product from service." And then they say- "Consider is it worth replacing the pulley."
What's baffling is your reading comprehension me thinks.
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lostlazy
Nov 17, 2009, 4:46 AM
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People really use these things huh...
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climbingtrash
Nov 17, 2009, 4:54 AM
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lostlazy wrote: People really use these things huh...
Yeah, for big rappels with a heavy load.
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agentmm
Nov 17, 2009, 5:25 AM
Post #12 of 26
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Where are you reading that? At the bottom of the first page they say- "There is no risk because the performance of the Petzl stop is not affected by this crack". And on the last page at the top they say- "Remove the product from service." And then they say- "Consider is it worth replacing the pulley."
What's baffling is your reading comprehension me thinks.
I apologize. I did misinterpret the write-up.
Let me put it another way:
The recommendation shouldn't be to remove the product from service AND THEN replace the pulley there after...
The fact that their recommendation is not blatantly obvious is ridiculous...
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nikmit
Nov 17, 2009, 8:32 AM
Post #13 of 26
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climbingtrash wrote: lostlazy wrote: People really use these things huh... Yeah, for big rappels with a heavy load.
No. They are (mostly) used in caving and as far as I remember max. length for rappel with descender is up to 60 meters, because is overheats and severely burns the rope. For longer rappels are used devices known as "rappel rack".
Haven't seen anyone in EU using a descender for rock climbing activities.
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climbingtrash
Nov 17, 2009, 12:43 PM
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agentmm wrote: climbingtrash wrote: agentmm wrote: People are worried about "GEAR4ROCKS" and shit like that and yet, PETZL (a huge, apparently trustworthy company) lacks the intelligence to suggest replacing a cracked pulley... They tell their concerned customers to "consider" it though... Baffling. Where are you reading that? At the bottom of the first page they say- " There is no risk because the performance of the Petzl stop is not affected by this crack". And on the last page at the top they say- " Remove the product from service." And then they say- " Consider is it worth replacing the pulley." What's baffling is your reading comprehension me thinks. I apologize. I did misinterpret the write-up. Let me put it another way: The recommendation shouldn't be to remove the product from service AND THEN replace the pulley there after... The fact that their recommendation is not blatantly obvious is ridiculous....
Oh really...then just what should their recommendation be? I'm also assuming that properly quoting on here should be more blatantly obvious too.
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agentmm
Nov 17, 2009, 5:49 PM
Post #15 of 26
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climbingtrash wrote: agentmm wrote: climbingtrash wrote: agentmm wrote: People are worried about "GEAR4ROCKS" and shit like that and yet, PETZL (a huge, apparently trustworthy company) lacks the intelligence to suggest replacing a cracked pulley... They tell their concerned customers to "consider" it though... Baffling. Where are you reading that? At the bottom of the first page they say- " There is no risk because the performance of the Petzl stop is not affected by this crack". And on the last page at the top they say- " Remove the product from service." And then they say- " Consider is it worth replacing the pulley." What's baffling is your reading comprehension me thinks. I apologize. I did misinterpret the write-up. Let me put it another way: The recommendation shouldn't be to remove the product from service AND THEN replace the pulley there after... The fact that their recommendation is not blatantly obvious is ridiculous.... Oh really...then just what should their recommendation be? I'm also assuming that properly quoting on here should be more blatantly obvious too.
Sorry about the quoting, I hope this is better...
Their recommendation should be to throw the F**king thing away...and never buy one EVER again...
Imagine a car company saying, "oh ya, the glove box and arm rest fall off after 1000 km....but don't worry, they aren't for safety, and you can consider replacing them after they fall off"
I don't think they would sell another car until they fixed the problem properly...PETZL should do the same: stop selling a product with a cosmetic crack...it's not structurally comprimising and I get that but it's simple business and marketing...
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climbingtrash
Nov 18, 2009, 4:27 AM
Post #16 of 26
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agentmm wrote: climbingtrash wrote: agentmm wrote: climbingtrash wrote: agentmm wrote: People are worried about "GEAR4ROCKS" and shit like that and yet, PETZL (a huge, apparently trustworthy company) lacks the intelligence to suggest replacing a cracked pulley... They tell their concerned customers to "consider" it though... Baffling. Where are you reading that? At the bottom of the first page they say- " There is no risk because the performance of the Petzl stop is not affected by this crack". And on the last page at the top they say- " Remove the product from service." And then they say- " Consider is it worth replacing the pulley." What's baffling is your reading comprehension me thinks. I apologize. I did misinterpret the write-up. Let me put it another way: The recommendation shouldn't be to remove the product from service AND THEN replace the pulley there after... The fact that their recommendation is not blatantly obvious is ridiculous.... Oh really...then just what should their recommendation be? I'm also assuming that properly quoting on here should be more blatantly obvious too. Sorry about the quoting, I hope this is better... Their recommendation should be to throw the F**king thing away...and never buy one EVER again... Imagine a car company saying, "oh ya, the glove box and arm rest fall off after 1000 km....but don't worry, they aren't for safety, and you can consider replacing them after they fall off" I don't think they would sell another car until they fixed the problem properly...PETZL should do the same: stop selling a product with a cosmetic crack...it's not structurally comprimising and I get that but it's simple business and marketing...
Looks like you got the quoting thing down...but your analogy = FAIL! I mean really, throw it away? After Petzl has tested it, in a lab, under conditions you will NEVER replicate, and it still works...you would throw it away. I mean, if it freaks you out, sure, get rid of it. But it seems to me that Petzl has done their job with full disclosure and in an intelligent fashion. Call me crazy but that seems to be a very GOOD way of doing business. Should they recall the device or offer to replace the pulley for free? I don't see why they should.
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agentmm
Nov 18, 2009, 4:46 AM
Post #17 of 26
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Have you ever purchased a pair of jeans with a rip in them for no reason? You decide on the spot "I want these brand new jeans to have a rip in them...they don't compromise the main goal of the jeans (to cover my ass) but I think I'll just do it....and LOOK! all the other pairs are ripped...they aren't supposed to be but they are...."
This is not the world we live in....I agree with you, PETZL did amazing spectacular bomb tests on this equipment...it's still f**ked up that they would sell cracked gear...
and you're right, my analogy does fail because arm rests and glove boxes aren't up on El Cap in life and death s**t...
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altelis
Nov 18, 2009, 4:56 AM
Post #18 of 26
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agentmm wrote: Have you ever purchased a pair of jeans with a rip in them for no reason? You decide on the spot "I want these brand new jeans to have a rip in them...they don't compromise the main goal of the jeans (to cover my ass) but I think I'll just do it....and LOOK! all the other pairs are ripped...they aren't supposed to be but they are...." This is not the world we live in....I agree with you, PETZL did amazing spectacular bomb tests on this equipment...it's still f**ked up that they would sell cracked gear... and you're right, my analogy does fail because arm rests and glove boxes aren't up on El Cap in life and death s**t...
How 'bout a little heads up, eh? You are apparently the undisputed KING of False Analogy
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agentmm
Nov 18, 2009, 5:05 AM
Post #19 of 26
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altelis wrote: agentmm wrote: Have you ever purchased a pair of jeans with a rip in them for no reason? You decide on the spot "I want these brand new jeans to have a rip in them...they don't compromise the main goal of the jeans (to cover my ass) but I think I'll just do it....and LOOK! all the other pairs are ripped...they aren't supposed to be but they are...." This is not the world we live in....I agree with you, PETZL did amazing spectacular bomb tests on this equipment...it's still f**ked up that they would sell cracked gear... and you're right, my analogy does fail because arm rests and glove boxes aren't up on El Cap in life and death s**t... How 'bout a little heads up, eh? You are apparently the undisputed KING of False Analogy
Thanks for the logic lesson...when I use the term "analogy" I am referring to it in the "internet/bullshit/trying to make my stupid worthless point" kind of way not the "Aristotelian Rhetoric/Formal Logic/Possible World Semantics" kind of way which my honours project was based partly on...
ridiculous...
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altelis
Nov 18, 2009, 5:10 AM
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agentmm wrote: altelis wrote: agentmm wrote: Have you ever purchased a pair of jeans with a rip in them for no reason? You decide on the spot "I want these brand new jeans to have a rip in them...they don't compromise the main goal of the jeans (to cover my ass) but I think I'll just do it....and LOOK! all the other pairs are ripped...they aren't supposed to be but they are...." This is not the world we live in....I agree with you, PETZL did amazing spectacular bomb tests on this equipment...it's still f**ked up that they would sell cracked gear... and you're right, my analogy does fail because arm rests and glove boxes aren't up on El Cap in life and death s**t... How 'bout a little heads up, eh? You are apparently the undisputed KING of False AnalogyThanks for the logic lesson...when I use the term "analogy" I am referring to it in the "internet/bullshit/trying to make my stupid worthless point" kind of way not the "Aristotelian Rhetoric/Formal Logic/Possible World Semantics" kind of way which my honours project was based partly on... ridiculous...
A bad analogy is a bad analogy. if you feel comfortable making the kind of analogies you have been making here, anybody else who received honors in the same program as you should be ashamed.
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climbingtrash
Nov 18, 2009, 5:14 AM
Post #21 of 26
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agentmm wrote: Have you ever purchased a pair of jeans with a rip in them for no reason? You decide on the spot "I want these brand new jeans to have a rip in them...they don't compromise the main goal of the jeans (to cover my ass) but I think I'll just do it....and LOOK! all the other pairs are ripped...they aren't supposed to be but they are...." This is not the world we live in....I agree with you, PETZL did amazing spectacular bomb tests on this equipment... it's still f**ked up that they would sell cracked gear... and you're right, my analogy does fail because arm rests and glove boxes aren't up on El Cap in life and death s**t...
So don't buy one. 
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climbingtrash
Nov 18, 2009, 5:17 AM
Post #22 of 26
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agentmm wrote: altelis wrote: agentmm wrote: Have you ever purchased a pair of jeans with a rip in them for no reason? You decide on the spot "I want these brand new jeans to have a rip in them...they don't compromise the main goal of the jeans (to cover my ass) but I think I'll just do it....and LOOK! all the other pairs are ripped...they aren't supposed to be but they are...." This is not the world we live in....I agree with you, PETZL did amazing spectacular bomb tests on this equipment...it's still f**ked up that they would sell cracked gear... and you're right, my analogy does fail because arm rests and glove boxes aren't up on El Cap in life and death s**t... How 'bout a little heads up, eh? You are apparently the undisputed KING of False AnalogyThanks for the logic lesson...when I use the term "analogy" I am referring to it in the "internet/bullshit/trying to make my stupid worthless point" kind of way not the "Aristotelian Rhetoric/Formal Logic/Possible World Semantics" kind of way which my honours project was based partly on... ridiculous...
Point missed = FAIL!
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agentmm
Nov 18, 2009, 5:22 AM
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altelis wrote: agentmm wrote: altelis wrote: agentmm wrote: Have you ever purchased a pair of jeans with a rip in them for no reason? You decide on the spot "I want these brand new jeans to have a rip in them...they don't compromise the main goal of the jeans (to cover my ass) but I think I'll just do it....and LOOK! all the other pairs are ripped...they aren't supposed to be but they are...." This is not the world we live in....I agree with you, PETZL did amazing spectacular bomb tests on this equipment...it's still f**ked up that they would sell cracked gear... and you're right, my analogy does fail because arm rests and glove boxes aren't up on El Cap in life and death s**t... How 'bout a little heads up, eh? You are apparently the undisputed KING of False AnalogyThanks for the logic lesson...when I use the term "analogy" I am referring to it in the "internet/bullshit/trying to make my stupid worthless point" kind of way not the "Aristotelian Rhetoric/Formal Logic/Possible World Semantics" kind of way which my honours project was based partly on... ridiculous... A bad analogy is a bad analogy. if you feel comfortable making the kind of analogies you have been making here, anybody else who received honors in the same program as you should be ashamed.
You're a nerd who sympathizes with guys like Demetri Martin. (First nerd that came to mind)
You're also fascinated by nephology I bet...
If you want to scrutinize everything that is said on here for validity, you'll be here until you're 98...
My analogies aren't academic. Thank you for pointing out the obvious.
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altelis
Nov 18, 2009, 5:29 AM
Post #24 of 26
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agentmm wrote: altelis wrote: agentmm wrote: altelis wrote: agentmm wrote: Have you ever purchased a pair of jeans with a rip in them for no reason? You decide on the spot "I want these brand new jeans to have a rip in them...they don't compromise the main goal of the jeans (to cover my ass) but I think I'll just do it....and LOOK! all the other pairs are ripped...they aren't supposed to be but they are...." This is not the world we live in....I agree with you, PETZL did amazing spectacular bomb tests on this equipment...it's still f**ked up that they would sell cracked gear... and you're right, my analogy does fail because arm rests and glove boxes aren't up on El Cap in life and death s**t... How 'bout a little heads up, eh? You are apparently the undisputed KING of False AnalogyThanks for the logic lesson...when I use the term "analogy" I am referring to it in the "internet/bullshit/trying to make my stupid worthless point" kind of way not the "Aristotelian Rhetoric/Formal Logic/Possible World Semantics" kind of way which my honours project was based partly on... ridiculous... A bad analogy is a bad analogy. if you feel comfortable making the kind of analogies you have been making here, anybody else who received honors in the same program as you should be ashamed. You're a nerd who sympathizes with guys like Demetri Martin. (First nerd that came to mind) You're also fascinated by nephology I bet... If you want to scrutinize everything that is said on here for validity, you'll be here until you're 98... My analogies aren't academic. Thank you for pointing out the obvious.
1) i had to google nephology. not sure what that suggests.....
2)your analogies aren't academic. sure. mine aren't either most of the time. there is a difference between a good analogy and a false analogy. one helps you make a point and the other wastes bandwith. it has nothing to do with it taking months to think out, or refer to newtonian physics, aristotelean ideals, or thomas hobbes' dick.
why are you so keen to cling to a series of useless, unhelpful, crappy analogies. they don't have to be academic but they do have to help clarify an otherwise complicated or misleading situation. how you think you've done this is beyond me.
what isn't beyond me is that by talking about analogies this much has allowed me to type "anal" so many times its stopped being funny.
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bill413
Nov 18, 2009, 1:58 PM
Post #25 of 26
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agentmm wrote: altelis wrote: agentmm wrote: altelis wrote: agentmm wrote: Have you ever purchased a pair of jeans with a rip in them for no reason? You decide on the spot "I want these brand new jeans to have a rip in them...they don't compromise the main goal of the jeans (to cover my ass) but I think I'll just do it....and LOOK! all the other pairs are ripped...they aren't supposed to be but they are...." This is not the world we live in....I agree with you, PETZL did amazing spectacular bomb tests on this equipment...it's still f**ked up that they would sell cracked gear... and you're right, my analogy does fail because arm rests and glove boxes aren't up on El Cap in life and death s**t... How 'bout a little heads up, eh? You are apparently the undisputed KING of False AnalogyThanks for the logic lesson...when I use the term "analogy" I am referring to it in the "internet/bullshit/trying to make my stupid worthless point" kind of way not the "Aristotelian Rhetoric/Formal Logic/Possible World Semantics" kind of way which my honours project was based partly on... ridiculous... A bad analogy is a bad analogy. if you feel comfortable making the kind of analogies you have been making here, anybody else who received honors in the same program as you should be ashamed. You're a nerd who sympathizes with guys like Demetri Martin. (First nerd that came to mind) You're also fascinated by nephology I bet... If you want to scrutinize everything that is said on here for validity, you'll be here until you're 98... My analogies aren't academic. Thank you for pointing out the obvious.
ad hominem attacks?
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