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ryanlum
Dec 13, 2009, 1:57 PM
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hey guys,
what are the best foods for recovery?
and whats the bet protein powder (type, brand?) for recovery? cause there are tons of it in the market
Thanks
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rhythm164
Dec 13, 2009, 3:49 PM
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Any real food (so, non-processed, healthy, get off the couch and make it food) will aid in your recovery. Try and get a good carbs:protein ratio. I'll make a bunch of burrito filling with beans and rice, veggies (the more colors you see the better off you are), and tofu and wrap it up in a whole wheat tortilla. You could also try quinoa, the miracle grain. Quick to cook and super high in nutrition. It has a low GI index, so I often have good luck bringing some with me to snack on through out the day at the crag, or I'll chow some before going to the gym. As for carbs and protein, you could do a recovery drink, ideally within 30 minutes of ending your session. look for one with a 3:1 carbs:protein ratio.
be interested to hear others folks responses to this.
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lena_chita
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Dec 13, 2009, 7:15 PM
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The constant questions about best foods for recovery, best protein powders, etc. really make me feel that I am not climbing hard enough and/or long enough.
Because I never found that I need anything special in terms of recovery foods... must not be working hard enough, huh?
When cragging for a day, I start out with a good breakfast (I need more than just a packet of oatmeal, some protein is important--eggs, or cheese, or sardines, etc.). Then I make sure I drink a lot of fluids throughout the day (mostly water, tea if cold, sometimes electrolyte drinks if it is too hot, like powerbar powdered stuff you add to water) and eat small amounts of food throughout the day (cliffbar, fresh and/or dried fruit, beef jerky, nut/fruit/chocolate trail mix, cheese sticks, hardboilded eggs, pita and hummus, instant soup, etc. Obvioiusly not all of the above in one day, LOL)
In the evening after climbing I make a big stir-fry-type dinner. Rice/cous-cous/buckwheat/quinoa, with lots of vegetables, eggs, canned salmon or tuna, sometimes chicken or sausage or fish -- stuff that you can pack frozen in a cooler the day before and have it slowly defrost.
Sometimes pizza and salad for dinner as a treat... instead of cooking.
Followed by more liquids.
Seems to work.
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rhythm164
Dec 13, 2009, 8:45 PM
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what do you do with the buckwheat? I use it on the off chance i make pancakes, but would love some other ideas.
cheers!
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Carnage
Dec 13, 2009, 9:41 PM
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the best way to set yourself up for recovery is drinking enough water during your workout. Its a simple step that makes a huge difference.
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kiwiprincess
Dec 13, 2009, 10:41 PM
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STAY HYDRATED, EAT PROTEIN WITHIN 20 MINS.(chicken sammie will do)
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pdpcardsfan
Dec 13, 2009, 11:11 PM
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you should try GNC's Amplified wheybolic extreme 60, its blended to help with strength recovery and stamina. i take half a shake before and the rest after i climb. it really works. unless you are trying to bulk up (which i doubt) only drink 1 shake with water like i do.
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lena_chita
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Dec 13, 2009, 11:15 PM
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rhythm164 wrote: what do you do with the buckwheat? I use it on the off chance i make pancakes, but would love some other ideas. cheers!
I use it instead of rice as a side dish a lot. It cooks in about the same time as white rice--e.i. faster than brown rice-- but packs more nutrients than white rice. If you can, find toasted buckwheat, grains stay separate after cooking that way. If you are in LA or SF area, a Russian store would be a good place to look for it. I know both places have several ethnic Russian stores... it is a bit more hassle to toast it yourself. When cooking, use one part buckwheat to 2 parts water, a bit of salt and some oil (optional).
It's really good tossed with sauteed onions and mushrooms.
or you can mix some cooked buckwheat with hot milk, honey and nuts for hot cereal in the morning.
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jt512
Dec 13, 2009, 11:19 PM
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pdpcardsfan wrote: you should try GNC's Amplified wheybolic extreme 60, its blended to help with strength recovery and stamina.
It's got what plants crave!
Jay
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rockforlife
Dec 13, 2009, 11:31 PM
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lena_chita wrote: When cragging for a day, I start out with a good breakfast (I need more than just a packet of oatmeal, some protein is important--eggs, or cheese, or sardines, etc.). Then I make sure I drink a lot of fluids throughout the day (mostly water, tea if cold, sometimes electrolyte drinks if it is too hot, like powerbar powdered stuff you add to water) and eat small amounts of food throughout the day (cliffbar, fresh and/or dried fruit, beef jerky, nut/fruit/chocolate trail mix, cheese sticks, hardboilded eggs, pita and hummus, instant soup, etc. Obvioiusly not all of the above in one day, LOL) Sometimes pizza and salad for dinner as a treat... instead of cooking.
Fixed that for ya
p.s.mmmmmmmmmm pizza
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robdotcalm
Dec 13, 2009, 11:33 PM
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rhythm164 wrote: what do you do with the buckwheat? I use it on the off chance i make pancakes, but would love some other ideas. cheers!
Here's one of the few times you'll get useful information on food in rc.com
http://www.lesliebeck.com/...php?featured_food=57
http://www.wolffskasha.com/aboutus.htm
I find the toasted kasha tastier than the untoasted. Most of the supermarkets here carry it as well as the natural food stores. We eat it home a lot, and I especially like it when camping out since it cooks up so fast. Simple recipe is about 1/3 cup kasha to one cup of water and a tablespoon of olive oil. Wait until the water is briskly boiling before adding the kasha.
r.c
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RyanW2050
Dec 13, 2009, 11:34 PM
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I drink protein powder after the gym mostly because i have a bad habit of only eating 2 meals each day. If I think about what I ate that day and I actually had 3 meals with a decent spread of proteins i skip it.
As long as you buy 100% whey you're really paying for taste and blendability after that I think. that being said i prefer Isopure Natural (vanilla). No artificial things, it contains real sugar.
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lena_chita
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Dec 14, 2009, 12:10 AM
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rockforlife wrote: lena_chita wrote: When cragging for a day, I start out with a good breakfast (I need more than just a packet of oatmeal, some protein is important--eggs, or cheese, or sardines, etc.). Then I make sure I drink a lot of fluids throughout the day (mostly water, tea if cold, sometimes electrolyte drinks if it is too hot, like powerbar powdered stuff you add to water) and eat small amounts of food throughout the day (cliffbar, fresh and/or dried fruit, beef jerky, nut/fruit/chocolate trail mix, cheese sticks, hardboilded eggs, pita and hummus, instant soup, etc. Obvioiusly not all of the above in one day, LOL) Sometimes pizza and salad for dinner as a treat... instead of cooking. Fixed that for ya
Busted... someone was spying on me while I ate at the crag.
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aerili
Dec 14, 2009, 1:33 AM
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From the Gatordade Sports Science Institute (and remarkably unbiased toward their product):
Recovery from strength/resistance exercise
Heavy resistance exercise increases the rates of both protein synthesis and breakdown in muscle for at least 24 hours after a workout. Unless a protein-containing meal is consumed during recovery, breakdown will exceed synthesis, resulting in the loss of muscle mass. Studies (Tipton KD, Wolfe RR. (2004). Protein and amino acids for athletes. J Sports Sci. 22:65-79; Rasmussen RB, Phillips SM. (2003). Contractile and nutritional regulation of human muscle growth. Exerc. Sport Sci. Rev. 31:127-131.) have shown:
The amount of dietary protein needed to stimulate muscle recovery is surprisingly small, only 5-10 g of amino acids (that's only 20-40 kcal of protein).
Essential amino acids are superior to non-essential amino acids for stimulating muscle growth. Foods such as fish, meat, eggs, and milk are rich in essential amino acids.
The "maximum effective dose" of amino acids (i.e., the single serving size that will maximally stimulate muscle protein accretion) is not known, however, one study showed that the amount of muscle protein gained was similar when subjects consumed ~20 g or ~40 g of essential amino acids after weightlifting exercise. (Tipton KD, Ferrando AA, Phillips SM, Doyle D Jr, Wolfe RR. (1999). Postexercise net protein synthesis in human muscle from orally administered amino acids. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 276:E628-E634.)
Thus, there seems to be a point of amino acid availability above which no further stimulation of muscle protein synthesis occurs. This suggests that consuming massive single doses of protein in hopes of further accelerating muscle growth (as often practiced by strength athletes) is futile.
The anabolic boost stimulated by a single dose of amino acids is transient and lasts only one to two hours. This means that ingesting repeated small doses of protein during recovery may be more effective in optimizing the rate of muscle protein gain, as opposed to eating just one large meal.
Carbohydrate added to a protein mixture does not markedly affect the muscle anabolic response, but does confer other benefits, most important being the resynthesis of muscle glycogen.
-->Take home points<--
After a hard workout, athletes should consume a recovery beverage or snack that contains a small amount of high-quality protein with adequate CHO in order to repair/stimulate muscle proteins and also replenish muscle glycogen stores after exercise.
Foods such as milk, yogurt, a small sandwich, an energy bar with at least 10 grams of protein or a canned sports nutrition shake are all appropriate choices."
Full article here.
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sidepull
Dec 14, 2009, 3:04 AM
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High DHA fish oil.
Look at scholarly articles on fish oil, they find positive results for everything. Crazy.
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jt512
Dec 14, 2009, 3:35 AM
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sidepull wrote: ...find positive results for everything.
In my experience, that suggests bad research.
Jay
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sidepull
Dec 14, 2009, 3:51 AM
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jt512 wrote: sidepull wrote: ...find positive results for everything. In my experience, that suggests bad research. Jay
Check the peer-reviewed meta-analyses on this one Jay. Sometimes similar results, in science, are also known as convergence, triangulation, or even(tually) "truth."
(This post was edited by sidepull on Dec 14, 2009, 4:04 AM)
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jt512
Dec 14, 2009, 5:21 AM
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sidepull wrote: jt512 wrote: sidepull wrote: ...find positive results for everything. In my experience, that suggests bad research. Jay Check the peer-reviewed meta-analyses on this one Jay.
I will, so prepare to eat your words. ;)
In reply to: Sometimes similar results, in science, are also known as convergence, triangulation, or even(tually) "truth."
I have no idea what that means. What I do know is that in nutrition every supposedly research-supported panacea has turned out to be false.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Dec 14, 2009, 5:25 AM)
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jt512
Dec 14, 2009, 5:31 AM
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sidepull wrote: High DHA fish oil.
As you suggested in your other post, I looked for relevant meta-analyses on DHA. I searched pubmed for "docosahexaenoic acid AND meta-analysis". The search returned 17 hits, none of which had any apparent relevance to the effect of DHA on recovery from exercise. Therefore, I must ask you to please cite the meta-analyses on DHA that you believe support a relation between DHA intake and recovery from exercise, or concede that no such meta-analyses exist.
Jay
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I_do
Dec 14, 2009, 10:01 AM
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jt512 wrote: sidepull wrote: High DHA fish oil. As you suggested in your other post, I looked for relevant meta-analyses on DHA. I searched pubmed for "docosahexaenoic acid AND meta-analysis". The search returned 17 hits, none of which had any apparent relevance to the effect of DHA on recovery from exercise. Therefore, I must ask you to please cite the meta-analyses on DHA that you believe support a relation between DHA intake and recovery from exercise, or concede that no such meta-analyses exist. Jay
scholar is the new pubmed
I was gonna post up at ton of meta-analyses with the effects of DHA but none of them are about exercise and recovery.
carry on
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sidepull
Dec 14, 2009, 2:51 PM
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sidepull wrote: High DHA fish oil. Look at scholarly articles on fish oil, they find positive results for everything. Crazy.
Jay, read the sentence again, I said to look for articles on fish oil, I didn't say just look for high DHA and I didn't specify about recovery. The point is that fish oil has an enormous array of benefits. I should have been more specific, I'm sorry.
For starters, search for fish oil in the journal "Medicine & Science in Sports Exercise." If you'd like more general benefits, search "meta-analysis" and "fish oil" on google scholar.
We can set the DHA point aside for now. But I think there's a growing consensus that fatty acids do help muscle recovery.
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lena_chita
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Dec 14, 2009, 3:07 PM
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sidepull wrote: sidepull wrote: High DHA fish oil. Look at scholarly articles on fish oil, they find positive results for everything. Crazy. Jay, read the sentence again, I said to look for articles on fish oil, I didn't say just look for high DHA and I didn't specify about recovery. The point is that fish oil has an enormous array of benefits. I should have been more specific, I'm sorry. For starters, search for fish oil in the journal "Medicine & Science in Sports Exercise." If you'd like more general benefits, search "meta-analysis" and "fish oil" on google scholar. We can set the DHA point aside for now. But I think there's a growing consensus that fatty acids do help muscle recovery.
You know, this is personal experience rather than a study, not scientific at all, but... I take EFA blend supplements (it contains fish oil). the reason why I started taking those suplements had nothing to do with climbing. I wasn't taking them every day, b/c I forgot. But after a few istances where I didn't take them for several days, but then finally remembered to take them after I got home from climbing at the gym, I noticed feeling better the following morning. (Less muscle stiffness/tiredness). Now I try to remember to take them every time after climbing.
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sidepull
Dec 14, 2009, 3:10 PM
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Some more specific examples:
Curr Sports Med Rep. 2007 Jul;6(4):230-6.
Omega-3 fatty acids and athletics.
Simopoulos AP.
The Center for Genetics, Nutrition and Health, Washington, DC 20009, USA. cgnh@bellatlantic.net
Human beings evolved consuming a diet that contained about equal amounts of y-6 and y-3 essential fatty acids. Today, in Western diets, the ratio of y-6 to y-3 fatty acids ranges from approximately 10:1 to 20:1 instead of the traditional range of 1:1 to 2:1. Studies indicate that a high intake of y-6 fatty acids shifts the physiologic state to one that is prothrombotic and proaggregatory, characterized by increases in blood viscosity, vasospasm, and vasoconstriction, and decreases in bleeding time. y-3 fatty acids, however, have anti-inflammatory, antithrombotic, antiarrhythmic, hypolipidemic, and vasodilatory properties. Excessive radical formation and trauma during high-intensity exercise leads to an inflammatory state that is made worse by the increased amount of y-6 fatty acids in Western diets, although this can be counteracted by eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA). For the majority of athletes, especially those at the leisure level, general guidelines should include EPA and DHA of about 1 to 2 g/d at a ratio of EPA:DHA of 2:1.
A dietary supplement attenuates IL-6 and CRP after eccentric exercise in untrained males.
Phillips T, Childs AC, Dreon DM, Phinney S, Leeuwenburgh C.
University of Florida, Biochemistry of Aging Laboratory, College of Health and Human Performance, Center for Exercise Science, College of Medicine, Gainesville 32611, USA.
PURPOSE: This study investigated the effects of a dietary supplement on exercise-induced markers of cell damage and the inflammatory mediators C-reactive protein (CRP) and interleukin-6 (IL-6). METHODS: The supplement contained mixed tocopherols, flavonoids, and docosahexaenoate. Forty healthy, nonsmoking, untrained males (aged 18-35 yr) were randomly assigned to receive either the supplement (N = 20) or placebo (N = 20) during the 14-d experimental protocol. Blood samples were collected on day 0 (baseline), day 7 (eccentric exercise-induced injury), day 10, and day 14. OBJECTIVE: Markers of cell damage (creatine kinase (CK) and lactate dehydrogenase (LDH)) and inflammation IL-6 and CRP were assessed at these time points in conjunction with subjective range of motion (ROM) and perceived pain measurements. Statistical analyses were conducted using nonparametric methods (P < 0.05). RESULTS: Eccentric arm curl exercise was used to induce an acute phase injury response as evidenced by significant (P < 0.0001) increases in CK, LDH, and pain, as well as a decreased range of motion 3 d after the exercise. There were no significant differences between groups in CK and LDH responses. In contrast, there were significant group differences for IL-6 (P = 0.008) and CRP (P = 0.003). At day 10, by Mann-Whitney U test of changes, the placebo group had significantly greater increases in IL-6 and CRP than the treatment group (P = 0.05 and P < 0.01), respectively. CONCLUSION: This study suggested that exercise-induced inflammation, evaluated by changes in IL-6 and CRP, was significantly reduced by the dietary supplement.
Counter example:
n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids do not alter immune and inflammation measures in endurance athletes.
Nieman DC, Henson DA, McAnulty SR, Jin F, Maxwell KR.
Dept. of Health, Leisure, and Exercise Science, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC 28608, USA.
The purpose of this study was to test the influence of 2.4 g/d fish oil n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids (n-3 PUFA) over 6 wk on exercise performance, inflammation, and immune measures in 23 trained cyclists before and after a 3-d period of intense exercise. Participants were randomized to n-3 PUFA (n = 11; 2,000 mg eicosapentaenoic acid [EPA], 400 mg docosahexaenoic acid [DHA]) or placebo (n = 12) groups. They ingested supplements under double-blind methods for 6 wk before and during a 3-d period in which they cycled for 3 hr/d at ~57% W(max) with 10-km time trials inserted during the final 15 min of each 3-hr bout. Blood and saliva samples were collected before and after the 6-wk supplementation period, immediately after the 3-hr exercise bout on the third day, and 14 hr postexercise and analyzed for various immune-function and inflammation parameters. Supplementation with n-3 PUFA resulted in a significant increase in plasma EPA and DHA but had no effect on 10-km time-trial performance; preexercise outcome measures; exercise-induced increases in plasma cytokines, myeloperoxidase, blood total leukocytes, serum C-reactive protein, and creatine kinase; or the decrease in the salivary IgA:protein ratio. In conclusion, 6 wk supplementation with a large daily dose of n-3 PUFAs increased plasma EPA and DHA but had no effect on exercise performance or in countering measures of inflammation and immunity before or after a 3-d period of 9 hr of heavy exertion.
Bizarre example:
The effect of dietary fish oil supplementation on exercising horses
C. I. O’Connor1, L. M. Lawrence, A. C. St. Lawrence, K. M. Janicki, L. K. Warren and S. Hayes
Department of Animal Sciences, University of Kentucky, Lexington 40546
1 Correspondence: Dept. of Anim. Sci., Michigan State Univ., East Lansing 48824 (e-mail: oconn107@msu.edu).
Ten horses of Thoroughbred or Standardbred breeding were used to study the effects of dietary fish oil supplementation on the metabolic response to a high-intensity incremental exercise test. Horses were assigned to either a fish oil (n = 6) or corn oil (n = 4) treatment. The fish oil (Omega Protein, Hammond, LA) contained 10.6% eicosapentaenoic acid and 8% docosahexaenoic acid. Each horse received timothy hay and a textured concentrate at a rate necessary to meet its energy needs. The supplemental oil was top-dressed on the concentrate daily at a rate of 324 mg/kg BW. Horses received their assigned diet for 63 d, during which time they were exercised 5 d/wk in a round pen or on a treadmill. During wk 1, horses exercised for 10 min at a trot. After wk 1, exercise time and intensity were increased so that at wk 5, exercise time in the round pen increased to 30 min (10 min of cantering and 20 min of trotting) per day. Starting at wk 6, horses were exercised 3 d/wk in the round pen for 30 min and 2 d/wk on a treadmill for 20 min. After 63 d, all horses performed an exercise test consisting of a 5-min warm-up at 1.9 m/s, 0% grade, followed by a step test on a 10% grade at incremental speeds of 2 to 8 m/s. Blood samples were taken throughout exercise. During exercise, horses receiving fish oil had a lower heart rate (treatment x time interaction; P < 0.05) and tended to have lower packed cell volume (treatment effect; P = 0.087). Plasma lactate concentrations were not affected by treatment. Plasma glucose concentrations were not different between groups during exercise but were lower (treatment x time interaction; P < 0.01) for the fish oil group during recovery. Serum insulin tended to be lower in fish oil horses throughout exercise (treatment effect; P = 0.064). There was a tendency for glucose:insulin ratios to be higher for fish oil-treated horses throughout exercise (treatment effect; P = 0.065). Plasma FFA were lower (treatment x time interaction; P < 0.01) in horses receiving fish oil than in horses receiving corn oil during the initial stages of the exercise test. Serum glycerol concentrations also were lower in fish oil-treated horses (P < 0.05). Serum cholesterol concentrations were lower in horses receiving fish oil (treatment effect; P < 0.05), but serum triglycerides were not affected by treatment (P = 0.55). These data suggest that addition of fish oil to the diet alters exercise metabolism in conditioned horses.
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shockabuku
Dec 14, 2009, 4:03 PM
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aerili wrote: The amount of dietary protein needed to stimulate muscle recovery is surprisingly small, only 5-10 g of amino acids (that's only 20-40 kcal of protein).
Maybe I misunderstood this but I read 20000-40000 calories of protein? That seems like maybe a couple weeks worth.
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lena_chita
Moderator
Dec 14, 2009, 4:23 PM
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shockabuku wrote: aerili wrote: The amount of dietary protein needed to stimulate muscle recovery is surprisingly small, only 5-10 g of amino acids (that's only 20-40 kcal of protein). Maybe I misunderstood this but I read 20000-40000 calories of protein? That seems like maybe a couple weeks worth.
Wrong calories...
FOOD calories -- the ones that are on all food labels, the ones that people count, the ones that an average male is supposed to consume about 2000 of in a day-- actually equal 1kcal ( or about 4.1868 kJ)
(This post was edited by lena_chita on Dec 14, 2009, 4:24 PM)
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